College or not

BoxheadTim wrote:

HiTempguy wrote: Makes me shake my head. And because of this, you have people with no planning/forsight who go into post secondary and switch into a different program after one year. Boom, 5 years to get a degree. I know people who come out of post secondary with double math/physics majors. Wtf good is that? Yes, it CAN be used, but I haven't met anyone yet who has put it to good use.

Then you haven't met anybody who got a job on Wall Street or at a non-Wall Street trading/market making firm. They love people with that degree combination.

You can make a metric crapload of money all over the place if you have a math degree and know how to program. Databases and such need those people.

foxtrapper wrote: Skipping the finger pointing and hand waving about college costs and worthless, it comes down to you. Do you want to be an engineer? A doctor? A military officer? Then you need college. Do you want to be a welder? A mechanic? A farmer? College is much less important. Going to college just to say you went is arguably rather pointless. But if you've a goal, it can serve a purpose. How long will it take? That depends on you and your major.

Exactly! Add to that where are the jobs in the field you choose! Are they somewhere you want to live. I have a friend who has a Bachelor's and Master's degree in Marine Biology. But he did not want to move away from Frederick,MD (not a hot spot for Marine Biology). So he ended up working in retail sales his entire working life.

I really can't grasp the cost of a college education today. My tuition was $100 a semester (my books usually cost more than my tuition). And I was working 30 hours a week making $5.25 an hour. I did manage to finish in 4 years.

About the last thing databases need are math majors.

Depends on the field you want to work in. As stated, some fields do require a degree. There are other fields that although a degree isn't required having one will make you more competitive. For some, certification of some sort (not necessarily college) is a big advantage. Choose the field you want to work in and figure out what is best for that field and go for that.

Duke wrote: My daughter took 4 years. She could have easily graduated in 3 if desired - she entered as a sophomore thanks to high school AP courses. If she had really busted hump and chosen her courses for maximum efficiency, she probably could have graduated in 5 semesters. I know very few people - some, but a vast minority - people either her age *or* my age who took more than 4 years to get a 4-year Bachelor's. In reply to Mitchell: As an associate.

I wish her the best of luck; I just began as a manager in an FC supporting role. I know that the floor can be really tough work, but if she doesn't hate it, AMs make what I consider solid middle class salaries.

BoxheadTim wrote:

HiTempguy wrote: Makes me shake my head. And because of this, you have people with no planning/forsight who go into post secondary and switch into a different program after one year. Boom, 5 years to get a degree. I know people who come out of post secondary with double math/physics majors. Wtf good is that? Yes, it CAN be used, but I haven't met anyone yet who has put it to good use.

Then you haven't met anybody who got a job on Wall Street or at a non-Wall Street trading/market making firm. They love people with that degree combination.

The smartest guy I know - one of the 150 best high school seniors in the US for our graduating year - got a BS in Physics from berking Princeton. Went from there directly to Wall Street and made a metric buttload of money for 5 or 6 years. Then he bailed and went to graduate school.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: You can make a metric crapload of money all over the place if you have a math degree and know how to program. Databases and such need those people.

If you have a math/physics degree AND know how to apply it.

For every "one" person who goes to wall street, there are thousands who graduate from "buttberkeley state U" as another one of our members put it, and wallow away in low paying jobs because there is nothing around them that uses said skills. Or sure, they have a physics/math double major, but they got C-'s the entire time. Anyone can get a degree by paying enough money, its what you learn from it and how you apply it that is valuable.

Not many people from the University of Alberta go to Wall Street with their physics degree to tear E36 M3 up Which is exactly my point, its all well and good to chase that dream of wanting X degree, but make sure there is a job market for it in the area you are at. Or else be happy with working low wage jobs for the rest of your life.

Even if you move, presumably the people from around the area that you are moving to already know the job market is strong for certain degrees and as such are taking them. Wonder who will get the job first? Again, point is, the worst thing you can ever do is go to college for the "experience" and pay oodles of money for said experience when it will literally not change your world view at all in the grand scheme of things, and on top of that, not benefit your advancement in life one iota.

Of those three, I'd rate HVAC work very high. So high, I have considered it myself.

It is the ONLY construction related trade that has both a viable repair component AND regular upgrade opportunities (in addition to new installations). Plus, the work is necessary in all types of projects (residential, commercial, industrial, government), and periodically there are political and/or government incentives for upgrades.

Meshes well with green technologies.

It is also an industry where a smart hard worker who can problem solve and do diagnostics can completely separate himself from the pack, with easy opportunities to move into being self employed or other companies in the future.

A good HVAC guy can easily generate upwards of $70K in only 6-8 months of summer work.

You MUST be willing to do unpleasant things (heat of an attic, heat of roof mounted units, crawl through nasty crawl spaces).

One note: I don't think too much of trade school training. Get an entry level job working directly with someone with a stellar reputation for diagnostics and training. Latch on to him- consider it a paid apprenticeship. Work up the ladder quickly.

Marketing, I feel kind of meh. Way too much competition, and too little opportunity. Everyone thinks they can do it, which devalues it.

I know nothing about Computer Information Systems Technology (other than my daughter does it), but I feel like we are on the wrong side of the bell curve. Every college graduate is expected to have SOME knowledge, and companies now try to solve their problems by using smart low paid people with pretty basic skills. I'm not sure the outlook looks so rosy.

In the category of pie in the sky degrees. A distant cousin of mine got his undergrad from Brown and MBA at Harvard. Started on Wall St (connections) at 700K in '98. Within a few years was "earning" 30 million a year. That sort of stupid money for any one person is what makes me look forward to the zombie apocalypse.

In reply to Silverbrick27:

Did you edit your post?

Where did your question about HVAC go?

What's "the computer field"??

Seems to me that covers thousands of jobs (the VAST majority of which do not end with $30 million per year)

HVAC: You can't out source that.

Computers and E36 M3: Don't recommend it. It is starting to come back from India, but I can't say I would recommend it today. See "Outsourcing."

Engineering: Ya'll know that Joe Biden, OUR VICE PRESIDENT told (at the time) our new BFF's the Russians that Russian engineers were so good, that we were going to outsource all our engineering jobs to the Russians and do for them what we did for India in IT. Yeah, that little video got scrubbed before the last election. So don't think you won't get outsourced or H1B'ed.

Computer Information Systems sounds a little closer to my field, so I feel halfway qualified to answer.

Have you been playing with, building, fixing and possibly programming a computer since you were 5? Have you been staying up and playing with hard and software until dawn at least three days last week? Then yes, it may be the degree for you...

TBH it sounds like the kind of degree that may qualify you for an entry-level sysadmin job with long hours and not a lot of pay. If you enjoy working with and on computers then it may be a good entry point to then go on and study Computer Science, which will hopefully lead to a better paid job.

That said, you'll work saner hours doing HVAC by the looks of it...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-22/college-worth-it-here-feds-answer-one-chart

Don't go into anything IT/CompSci related unless you live in one of the "hot spots" (SF/NY/Austin/Boston) and have "connections." Total E36 M3show otherwise, as BoxheadTim pointed out.

GameboyRMH wrote: Don't go into anything IT/CompSci related unless you live in one of the "hot spots" (SF/NY/Austin/Boston) and have "connections." Total E36 M3show otherwise, as BoxheadTim pointed out.

Even out here in black gold land, I agree. You can be successful in IT/CompSci, but it is heavily stacked against you. Lots of people doing support/on call work for not much money.

Then again, its not like the work is hard physically, and you are in a sheltered/heated environment all day. There are much worse jobs.

The older I get, the happier I am that I work a job that is "mostly" inside and isn't primarily based on my ability to do physical labour. When you are 55+ and don't need a hip replacement or your knees don't crackle in the morning, that (to me) is worth a significant amount of coin.

Sometimes I wonder if college shouldn't be for folks in the 40/50's.

While I want to build experience in a professional "office" environment, I only do so because I know later in life this type of work will be easier on old bones.

That being said, I am sometimes concerned that my sedate lifestyle in my early years will negatively affect my later years in terms of both physical and mental health.

I like my knees crackling in the morning. I usually sing along.

I am well known to be able to "crackle" just about every joint in my body. Toes, fingers, knees, hips, you name it. Not even 30 yet.

PHeller wrote: That being said, I am sometimes concerned that my sedate lifestyle in my early years will negatively affect my later years in terms of both physical and mental health.

That's on you to exercise appropriately in ways that don't damage your body. I've been using (of all things) an elliptical at work after hours. It just seems like such a lame way to excercise... but its much easier on your body (especially ankles/knees) compared to running. Same with swimming. Running/jogging is super hard on your joints, which is why I don't understand the fascination with it. I'm only 26, and not "unhealthy", but I am trying to be healthier.

I'm looking at this whole "college/career/life" thing approaching it from best practices. Real world may vary

I want a job that involves walking. Not turning wrenches or swinging hammers. Not crouching or kneeling. Not digging holes or lifting heavy objects. Just walking.

Our bodies are made for lots of walking. I'm sure neolithic man probably spent as much time walking as he did sleeping and probably more time doing both than sitting.

I thought about what types of jobs are out there that are most natural. Hand farming, probably. Hunting, definitely. Personal trainer, maybe. Surveying is probably pretty natural. Carry gear while walking, occasionally sit to draw up some plans, and then its back to walking again, and occasional use of hand tools. That sounds a lot like a primitive lifestyle.

^There is apparently a huge shortage of Professional Land Surveyors.

Neither farming nor primitive lifestyle get you out of crouching and kneeling and digging holes and lifting heavy objects. Quite the opposite in fact.

If you just want to walk and carry some gear when walking, become a postal worker in the city.

Where did you hear that?

I've worked with quite a few Surveying Techs turned drafters. They didn't care for working out in the weather. Felt they were underpaid and doing drafting paid better and was easier.

The other thing is the time needed to reach various licensing requirements. From what I can tell its at least 4 years as a SIT after passing an SIT exam.

foxtrapper wrote: Neither farming nor primitive lifestyle get you out of crouching and kneeling and digging holes and lifting heavy objects. Quite the opposite in fact. If you just want to walk and carry some gear when walking, become a postal worker in the city.

What I was getting at is that it seems both a cushy office job and a blue-collar hands on job can have negative affects on our physical health.