Coloradans, please ‘splain water to me.

OK you guys and gals in ?Colorado, can you explain water conservation, or actually the total lack of it too me please?

First off, I’ve just got back from a two week camping trip in Colorado. We stayed in Colorado/Manitou springs, Ridgway state park just up the road from Ouray, Rocky mountain National park (by Estes park) and visited various other places such as Durango, Mesa Verde, Telluride, Boulder, Nederland etc. as well as doing a E36 M3 load of driving around the state. As with previous (and future I’m sure) trips I absolutely love the place, the history, the beauty, the mountains, the hiking etc. Wonderful state full of healthy fit people. The only fatties I saw were tourists such as myself. Also the # of ex-pat Michiganders was staggering. No wonder MI is losing population, everyone is moving to Colorado to run a coffee shop, brewery, restaurant, hair salon (I paid for my first hair cut in 5 years while there as I have an interview now I’m back) if they weren’t running one of these places they were working there or as a park ranger, camp host etc. I bet fully 20% of the people we talked to working there were from MI or had close ties there.

Anyway, I digress. As expected it’s a very health and environmentally conscious place. All the restaurants offer healthy food choices, most seem to offer specific gluten free menu choices and some even had specific Paleo choices listed. There was lots of wind and solar power, many houses seem to be designed to be solar conscious from an energy use point of view. For every trash bin there seems to be at least one recycle bin and in many places real recycling with different openings for different materials. So this is a state that really seems to care. Until it comes to water. We’ve discussed water rights here before including the fact that in some areas of Colorado you don’t own the water that falls on your property and can’t use rain barrels.

So knowing the water issues both for Colorado and the downstream states that use the Colorado river I was utterly appalled at the apparent total lack of water conservation. Other than trees or holes in the ground I saw exactly one water free urinal, I saw exactly zero duel flush toilet stalls. The absolute worst was agriculture. In a state where water is an issue I expected all the farmers to be using drip irrigation and at the very least irrigating early in the morning or late in the evening, but no. I think I saw a couple of places that had drip irrigation, but 99% of agriculture appears to be irrigated by giant sprayers pumping gazillions of gallons of water at high pressure 30-40 feet in the air during the 11:00 – 4:00 time period when most of it instantly evaporates and what does fall the ground just helps burn the leaves. Now I could forgive this if it were all old equipment and it was taking time to transition to drip irrigation, but no, much of the equipment looked brand spanking new. What gives? Water is an issue yet there is conspicuous waste all over the state. Ditto many housing developments we passed on the road. Many older established communities seem to understand and have area appropriate plants, but many new cookie cutter places have lush green grass with water being pissed away into the sky? I live slap bang in the middle of 20% of the world’s fresh water and I stopped using my lawn sprinklers years ago as it’s a total waste. Now I know the good libertarian view is berkeley off and let me do what I want, but surely in a state that so obviously seems to care about the environment something can be done when there is so much waste?

Its not an issue in Colorado- its an issue downstream...

Streetwiseguy wrote: Its not an issue in Colorado- its an issue downstream...

So it's berkeley thy neighbour then?

I can only water my lawn on Sun, Wed, and Fri for no more than an hour.

I just do 10 minutes at 12am and 11pm to keep it decent and keep the HOA happy.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: Its not an issue in Colorado- its an issue downstream...

So it's berkeley thy neighbour then?

They chose to live in the desert...

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Who doesn't say berkeley california?

No matter what, after seeing the total waste and disregard for water conservation, it's berkeley you to any state that wants to get their hands on one drop of our lovely fresh great lakes water.

I’m not saying it’s just Colorado. We met up with friends who moved from MI to Prescott AZ six years ago and they say it’s just as bad there. New subdivisions popping up all the time with lush green lawns all over the place.

mtn wrote: They chose to live in the desert...

And NAFTA makes it scary business for us Canuckistanians in regards to water rights, so I also agree with that sentiment.

I thought all of their rainwater somehow belonged to the PRC or something silly to that effect. Being a bit spiteful perhaps?

Here in Texas, well at least where I live, we are in the middle of a huge drought. We aren't supposed to water lawns, etc. If you have a well, as most agricultural properties have, you can do as you please. We have our house on city water and we have a well for the barn, horses, and watering the grass (of which there isn't much anymore). There are people in the actual city limits who have huge signs stating they're on well water so the city doesn't fine them for watering the grass when they're not supposed to. Out where I live, no one really cares as most people ARE on well water for just about everything.

That being said, we got about 3-5" of rain last night and it's still showering now. That's awesome!! We're supposed to have rain for the rest of the week. Won't fill up the 47' gap in the lake, but it'll help.

Somebody should post an article on xeriscaping.

Conquest351 wrote: If you have a well, as most agricultural properties have, you can do as you please.

Because you know, there are property line divisions in the aquifer.

In reply to PHeller:

And this is why we DON'T use center pivots or irrigation of any kind on our farm. That, and when they tried to dig deep wells in the early 1900's, they hit natural gas. Indiana doesn't really need irrigation though, because we're awesome.

yamaha wrote: Indiana doesn't really need irrigation though, because we're awesome.

And not a desert.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: No matter what, after seeing the total waste and disregard for water conservation, it's berkeley you to any state that wants to get their hands on one drop of our lovely fresh great lakes water.

Don't worry, our local governments feel the same way.

Can't find the link (and I wish I could but I don't have the time at the moment) but one of the senators of one of the desert states said something to the effect of "Oh, when we run the Colorado dry, we'll just pipe it from the Great Lakes." To which someone from (Michigan?) said, in effect, "You'll need military force to get our water."

It's not just a Great Lakes vs. people who live in the desert where there's NO WATER thing. You have to figure that the Great Lakes is not US-owned since half of it is Canadian. But water being what it is, we can't use any of it without affecting Canada and vice-versa, so water rights/useage/conservation up here is by international treaty.

And now I have this thought of a Red Dawn-like situation where Canadian paratroopers are landing in hipster communities and forcing poutine down everyone's vegan locovore throats...

PHeller wrote:

yamaha wrote: Indiana doesn't really need irrigation though, because we're awesome.

And not a desert.

Iowa isn't, and they still do it.....how else do you think they get 225+bu/ac

PHeller wrote:

Conquest351 wrote: If you have a well, as most agricultural properties have, you can do as you please.

Because you know, there are property line divisions in the aquifer.

This^. A couple of years ago during the freezes all the farms were watering to protect their crops which lead to many sink holes, which caused huge insurance problems for anyone in west central Florida. Since then there have many alternative methods used. Most crops get covered now during freezes.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I think I saw a couple of places that had drip irrigation, but 99% of agriculture appears to be irrigated by giant sprayers pumping gazillions of gallons of water at high pressure 30-40 feet in the air during the 11:00 – 4:00 time period

I suspect a lot of those spray irrigation systems are running all day, cycling between fields, because there isn't enough pressure/flow/whatever to run all the fields at once.

mtn wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: Its not an issue in Colorado- its an issue downstream...

So it's berkeley thy neighbour then?

They chose to live in the desert...

Chose to live in a desert with a massive river running through it. Well, massive until every one upstream decides to waste it all

I guess they can pollute it all they want too?

Colorado/Manitou springs? You are confused my friend Colorado springs and Manitou springs are vastly different places. Manitou is like a circus freak off season town. The only reason normal people went there in the first place was Waldo Canyon. Now that it burned there is really no good reason to go there. That town has the freakiest people I have ever dealt with in my life and I lived in downtown Detroit for 2 years. Colorado springs is a town built on the military and is a pretty ok town.

As for the water situation. Its screwy as hell, makes no sense and everyone is not completely happy with the situation. Also those business in Manitou can not afford no flush toilets. They really don't make a lot of money. People who live in those tourist trap towns are basically working in their little shop to make enough money to eat and pay there mortgage. That is why those Coffee shops you speak of are always going out of business.

xd wrote: Colorado/Manitou springs? You are confused my friend Colorado springs and Manitou springs are vastly different places. Manitou is like a circus freak off season town. The only reason normal people went there in the first place was Waldo Canyon. Now that it burned there is really no good reason to go there. That town has the freakiest people I have ever dealt with in my life and I lived in downtown Detroit for 2 years. Colorado springs is a town built on the military and is a pretty ok town. As for the water situation. Its screwy as hell, makes no sense and everyone is not completely happy with the situation. Also those business in Manitou can not afford no flush toilets. They really don't make a lot of money. People who live in those tourist trap towns are basically working in their little shop to make enough money to eat and pay there mortgage. That is why those Coffee shops you speak of are always going out of business.

Wow, glad you had a smiley after the first paragraph, that's quite an opinion there!

In reply to Knurled:

lake michigan is 100% inside the US border. berkeley poutine!

Pfff. We don't need your piddly little lake Michigan. Canada has more lakes than every other country combined.

In reply to AngryCorvair:

I vote we start dumping salt into lake michigan.....then once we have dried it up, we'll have our own midwest Bonneville.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

xd wrote: Colorado/Manitou springs? You are confused my friend Colorado springs and Manitou springs are vastly different places. Manitou is like a circus freak off season town. The only reason normal people went there in the first place was Waldo Canyon. Now that it burned there is really no good reason to go there. That town has the freakiest people I have ever dealt with in my life and I lived in downtown Detroit for 2 years. Colorado springs is a town built on the military and is a pretty ok town. As for the water situation. Its screwy as hell, makes no sense and everyone is not completely happy with the situation. Also those business in Manitou can not afford no flush toilets. They really don't make a lot of money. People who live in those tourist trap towns are basically working in their little shop to make enough money to eat and pay there mortgage. That is why those Coffee shops you speak of are always going out of business.

Wow, glad you had a smiley after the first paragraph, that's quite an opinion there!

As someone who visited Manitou Springs for the first time a few weeks ago, it's hard to argue. I saw a hotel on the main strip that advertised "PHONES! TELEVISION! AIR CONDITIONING!" I felt I should have been in the Family Truckster, it's got that kinda "stuck in the late 50's" vibe to it. Which is fun in its own way...

My in-laws have a farm here on the Western Slope of Colorado. Their irrigation is done with trenches. And yes, flow is an issue. They can't irrigate the whole farm at once, they have to cycle it around. There are lots of PSA programs to try to get people to water at appropriate times - we use drip for the garden and only spray in the morning/evening.

Nice beautiful soccer fields and golf courses in town though. It's a bit retarded.