conservatives and liberals

ultraclyde wrote: Whole pile of 'em.

some are quite pretty. I spotted this fellow on vacation a few years back

I am non-partisan. I have noticed that the usual conservative suspects have come running in like Rambo without a jockstrap yelling about how liberals are ruining everything. That isn't particularly helpful.

Otto Maddox wrote: I am non-partisan. I have noticed that the usual conservative suspects have come running in like Rambo without a jockstrap yelling about how liberals are ruining everything. That isn't particularly helpful.

For being "non-partisan" you followed up that claim with something very Parisian.

For being "non-partisan" you followed up that claim with something very Parisian.

Like this?

Otto Maddox wrote: I am non-partisan. I have noticed that the usual conservative suspects have come running in like Rambo without a jockstrap yelling about how liberals are ruining everything. That isn't particularly helpful.

I don't usually post in these threads but I'll give you an internet high-five for the Fish Called Wanda reference.

Otto Maddox wrote: For being "non-partisan" you followed up that claim with something very Parisian. Like this?

Auto correct has forsaken me.

AutoCorrect must be a Liberal.

Jay wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: I am non-partisan. I have noticed that the usual conservative suspects have come running in like Rambo without a jockstrap yelling about how liberals are ruining everything. That isn't particularly helpful.

I don't usually post in these threads but I'll give you an internet high-five for the Fish Called Wanda reference.

That makes it all worthwhile. Great movie. I try not to post in these topics unless I can sneak something like that in. Most people are too worked up to catch it.

I prefer my flounder stuffed.

gamby wrote:

iceracer wrote: Witnss the completely unnecessary Iraq war. Busch wanted it, Congress said OK, Obama got stuck with it.

Meh--a trillion on a couple of wars wasn't "spending". That the Iraq war has ended and Bin Laden is dead apparently mean nothing, either.

In both cases the deed is done, Now it is time to pay the bill. Kind of like your wife has plasic surgery, now you have to pay for it.

mguar wrote:

ThePhranc wrote: Liberals aren't liberals any more. That name became too toxic so now they are called "progessives" because they want progress. The progress that has been tried before and failed every time kind of progress.

So what is wrong with progress?

it depends on what you are progressing towards. For folks who call themselves progressives you who do good to learn how the movement got started and then ask yourself if you want to support that. Liberals and progressives are very different.

Sorry for not editing my post.

In reply to mguar:

Conservatives like progress just fine as long as its real progress and not the "progress" of "progressives".

You do understand what that means right?

States rights was not resolved by the War of Northern Aggression. The outcome of that war as far as states rights is concerned is that states have no rights unless they fight for them and that the federals will kill to keep power. Lincoln was a scum bag. His hero whoreship is disgusting, but they say he who wins writes the history. John Wilkes Booth is an America hero who saved many from the tyrany on old Honest Abe.

ThePhranc wrote: Conservatives like progress just fine as long as its real progress and not the "progress" of "progressives".

Exactly, change for the sake of change isn't good, in fact, it is detrimental.

Conservative = liberal who's been mugged

Liberal = conservative arrested for DUI

mguar wrote:

ThePhranc wrote: In reply to mguar: Conservatives like progress just fine as long as its real progress and not the "progress" of "progressives". You do understand what that means right? States rights was not resolved by the War of Northern Aggression. The outcome of that war as far as states rights is concerned is that states have no rights unless they fight for them and that the federals will kill to keep power. Lincoln was a scum bag. His hero whoreship is disgusting, but they say he who wins writes the history. John Wilkes Booth is an America hero who saved many from the tyrany on old Honest Abe.

The south lost the war they started because they were foolish enough to believe that war is about nobility and heroics.. They apparently couldn't count because they were behind in everything important.. Cannons, men, guns, railroads, telegraphs, and leaders.. Say what you wish about Lincoln but at least he didn't runaway in a dress like Jefferson Davis did.. Oh, and he won..

They didn't actually start the war. Your ignorance about the war astounding but not surprising.

I was bred, born and raised Southern. I was told almost from the cradle that the Yanks cheated to win and the South was on the side of nobility and 'states rights', slavery had nothing to do with it. I was also told Abe Lincoln as the schoolbooks taught him was wrong, he was actually a thief and a crook etc.

When I got old enough to make up my own mind, I read the Articles of Secession and saw that preserving the institution of slavery was mentioned as a proximate reason.

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#South Carolina

Excerpt:

'The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.'

'The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.'

'These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.'

'We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection. '

'For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms [emphasis in the original] of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.'

Dislike Abe, Sherman, Grant etc all ya want, but slavery was the proximate cause of the Civil War and the South was on the wrong side of the question then. Period. Along with the whole couldn't count guns etc thing.

I see living down here the same way I do Brit cars: love it but honest enough to admit the faults, both past and present.

Curmudgeon wrote: I see living down here the same way I do Brit cars: love it but honest enough to admit the faults, both past and present.

Plus +1000. The South sure isn't perfect but there is no where I would rather live.

Good lord. Leave this place overnight and we've dragged the Civil War into it.

Otto Maddox wrote: Good lord. Leave this place overnight and we've dragged the Civil War into it.

But no goose stepping Nazis yet.

mguar wrote: I do understand those who insist on revising history to suit their own agenda. So we take pity on them and kindly allow them their delusions.

I apply this idea to liberals and conservatives.

mguar wrote: Governing is really the art of compromise.

Which is something we seem to have forgotten

There's a saying: 'a good decision pisses off everybody'.