Dear Troy Davis:

More info about the case:

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/09/21/there-is-no-travesty-of-justice-in-georgia-executive-troy-davis/

http://www.wtoc.com/Global/story.asp?S=9229952

There was a lot more evidence for conviction than most people realize.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

mndsm wrote:

mtn wrote: Eh. Death penalty needs to be done away with if only for the expense of it.

Death penalty is only expensive because they let it be. 9mm rounds are cheap. I blame the gov't for cost inflation on that one.

If they could be used in place of paid employees for government projects like road/bridge work it could actually be a profit center. Plus... when they can't work any more you can use them for scientific experiments, sell the organs to private hospitals catering to wealthy alcoholics with worn out livers and make soup for the homeless with the scraps. There is so much waste in the current system.

Don't even get me started on government waste. I do health insurance for a living, and my primary client base is state funded medicaid. I'm usually screaming about welfare by the end of the day. But you're right, crims could be used for projects. I particularly like the maricopa cty. sherriff (whose name eludes me at this time) that actually DOES do chain gangs, makes them work for everything, and has cut cost to near 0 by using old surplus tents, cheap food, etc etc. Brilliant stuff. Plus, if you really smart, you get the crims to do stuff, they learn a marketable skill, and when they go back into society, have company sponsorships that help crims get jobs, and everyone wins!

oldsaw wrote: On the bright side, it only took a little over a decade for Texas to execute a white supremacist convicted of murder in 1998. That happened today too, but without all the protest. Go figure..........

I assume you're referring to Lawrence Brewer, in the James Byrd murder by dragging case.

Three lowlifes dragged a man to death. The one who cooperated got a life sentence. The other two got the death sentence. Of course, that's used as some kind of evidence that we need hate-crime laws to increase punishment. How much more can we punish these men?

As far as the white supremacist connection, I suspect that the prison gangs had more to do with this event than random racial violence. The killers AND the victim were ex-cons. Nothing more was reported on that as far as I recall, but there is a code of silence with those gangs.

One down. One to go, and one to rot.

SVreX wrote: This thread is pitiful. Guilty or not, the police were WAAY too zealous for this one. They botched the case, only because the victim was a cop. Entering the house without a search warrant? Pressuring witnesses? 7 of 9 witnesses recanting their testimony with signed affidavits? Their star witness is a career jailhouse stool pigeon? No weapon? Plus, every account I have read says the casings which tied him to the crime were found at or near the scene, not that they were the ones used to kill Mr. MacPhail. I'm a big believer in the death penalty. I'm a bigger believer in the Constitution. If the Police can't figure out how to do a criminal investigation, he's not supposed to get executed. But I wasn't on the jury, and I find the idea of trying him (or anyone) in the newspapers patently offensive. Worse is trying him in a automotive website. I won't pass judgment on the man, it's not my job. It's the jury's job. However, I will pass judgment on this thread and say it sucks.

This.

SVreX wrote: However, I will pass judgment on this thread and say it sucks.

+1 to everything you said. I think the death penalty is reasonable and just in many cases, but the first post in this thread serves as a damn fine example to those who would say that our society doesn't treat that penalty with the reverence that shows we have earned the right to use it.

Even if he is guilty, is this something we should really celebrate? Killing this guy in a humane way or in the bloodiest most painful way possible isn't going to bring McPhail back to life.

Open the holy book of any religion you can name and there is a chapter there about vengeance not being a good thing. We are just piling one death upon another. Some of the shouts for torture and execution I keep seeing in my own country scare me.

How much more blood do we need?

+3 on this thread sucking.

mndsm wrote:

mtn wrote: Eh. Death penalty needs to be done away with if only for the expense of it.

Death penalty is only expensive because they let it be. 9mm rounds are cheap. I blame the gov't for cost inflation on that one.

It is the court costs that make it expensive.

http://www.economist.com/node/13279051

ppddppdd wrote: Poopshovel, what would it take to convince you that race plays a role in the criminal justice system, or that it played a role in this specific case? Not saying it did or it didn't.

probably a complete abdication of one race from any wrongdoing. Such a strawman....

I am sure this is the case of the media grabbing a story and leaving stuff out and twisting it in order to get ratings.

i'm sure they are.

`cause someone else was executed on death row yesterday, too. His guilt in his crime was nowhere near cast in doubt like Troy's, but intellectually if they are so morally outraged, and worldly superior to capital punishment, they would be talking about this guy ad nauseum as well.

But they aren't. I won't bother listing the differences in the cases beyond the fact that this guy's crime has not been cast in doubt. But that shouldn't matter intellectually to others, its still a death penalty, right?

slantvaliant wrote:

oldsaw wrote: On the bright side, it only took a little over a decade for Texas to execute a white supremacist convicted of murder in 1998. That happened today too, but without all the protest. Go figure..........

I assume you're referring to Lawrence Brewer, in the James Byrd murder by dragging case. Three lowlifes dragged a man to death. The one who cooperated got a life sentence. The other two got the death sentence. Of course, that's used as some kind of evidence that we need hate-crime laws to increase punishment. How much more can we punish these men? As far as the white supremacist connection, I suspect that the prison gangs had more to do with this event than random racial violence. The killers AND the victim were ex-cons. Nothing more was reported on that as far as I recall, but there is a code of silence with those gangs. One down. One to go, and one to rot.

Um... there have been protests... headed up by the victim's son.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/21/us-texas-execution-son-idUSTRE78K35B20110921

Just to keep Poopie spinning

Josh wrote:

SVreX wrote: However, I will pass judgment on this thread and say it sucks.

+1 to everything you said. I think the death penalty is reasonable and just in many cases, but the first post in this thread serves as a damn fine example to those who would say that our society doesn't treat that penalty with the reverence that shows we have earned the right to use it.

I support the death penalty, in a perfect world. Unfortunately, the world is rarely perfect.

And if it were, I suppose no one would commit crimes worthy of the death penalty.

If someone supports a particular execution, fine. And after the execution, the classy thing to say would be "good. Justice has been served". Cheering it on is not, in my opinion, the right thing to do.

Joey

joey48442 wrote: I support the death penalty, in a perfect world. Unfortunately, the world is rarely perfect. And if it were, I suppose no one would commit crimes worthy of the death penalty. If someone supports a particular execution, fine. And after the execution, the classy thing to say would be "good. Justice has been served". Cheering it on is not, in my opinion, the right thing to do. Joey

+1.

ppddppdd wrote: Poopshovel, what would it take to convince you that race plays a role in the criminal justice system, or that it played a role in this specific case? Not saying it did or it didn't.

I dunno. Hit me. Obviously that Mark Fuhrman cat helped O.J. Simpson get away with murder. What I meant specifically is that a BUNCH of folks they talked to on the radio and TV started in with this "It harkens back to a dark time in Georgia...." crap. Like this guy is randomly being strung up from a tree under suspicion of looking at a white woman or something.

Quite honestly, I'm not sure exactly where I stand on the death penalty as it currently exists. I realize it's more expensive than life in prison. But I do absolutely, whole-heartedly believe this guy killed the father of a 2-year-old, and I'm glad the penalty was death. If it was my family, that's what I'd want. In an ideal world, (from BOTH sides of the capital punishment argument,) I'd get to pull the trigger/plunger/whatever.

If you think I'm a dusgusting person for taking satisfaction in the fact that this berkeleyer's dead, no sweat. I've been called worse. Personally I find it disgusting that hundreds of people were cheering this murderer on, carrying around big images of him like he's christ come home, insulting the victim's family etc.

my $.02. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to agree with me.

PS: It was probably pretty E36 M3ty of me to start the thread to begin with. I know it comes off as needlessly incediary, and honestly, I'm totally aware of the fact that I'm just kind of a dick. I'm no longer able to scream at the TV, so I suppose I've been doing it more with the keyboard lately. Apologies.

If you find it to be useless drivel, please report and have deleted. I won't have my pooper hurt.

In reply to joey48442:

+1, Joey........

I'm not anti-capital punishment, but don't like to see it applied towards "crimes of passion". The possibility of death (at the hands of the state) is no deterrent when someone's emotions blow-up and the immediate result is the death of another person. Premeditated murder is a different animal and that animal is rabid. Court records in the Davis case show that he shot McPhail once (in the chest) and went back to shoot him head, just to "make sure".

There is nothing to celebrate in this case but there is reason to support the verdict and its' final outcome.

madmallard wrote:

ppddppdd wrote: Poopshovel, what would it take to convince you that race plays a role in the criminal justice system, or that it played a role in this specific case? Not saying it did or it didn't.

probably a complete abdication of one race from any wrongdoing. Such a strawman....

IIRC, one study said that while black males accused of murder were more likely to get the death sentence, white males were more likely to actually get executed. Interesting ...

slantvaliant wrote: IIRC, one study said that while black males accused of murder were more likely to get the death sentence, white males were more likely to actually get executed. Interesting ...

That result would be consistent with the notion that the standard of evidence required to commit a white man to his death is greater, wouldn't it?

Josh wrote:

slantvaliant wrote: IIRC, one study said that while black males accused of murder were more likely to get the death sentence, white males were more likely to actually get executed. Interesting ...

That result would be consistent with the notion that the standard of evidence required to commit a white man to his death is greater, wouldn't it?

Or that there are more groups willing to fund appeals from black convicts. Or that some courts/judges consider race during appeal. Lots of possibilities. Hence the word "interesting".

Lawrence Brewer, anyone?

One of three convicted of the dragging death of John Byrd in Texas years ago. I read places where people are upset over Davis' execution, but rejoicing in Brewers.

Found guilty by a jury of his peers.

Still guilty after multiple appeals.

Justice has been served.

It's Constitutional.

I have no problems with it.

Toyman01 wrote: Found guilty by a jury of his peers. Still guilty after multiple appeals. Justice has been served. It's Constitutional. I have no problems with it.

Amen.

Toyman01 wrote: Found guilty by a jury of his peers. Still guilty after multiple appeals. Justice has been served. It's Constitutional. I have no problems with it.

Clean, concise, and to the point. I like it.

Brett_Murphy wrote: Guilty or not, I am of the opinion that the USA should suspend the death penalty until any and all reports of post trial exonerations are something people only hear about in history class.

This resonates with me.

I can't get my head around the idea that it's more important to kill a guilty person than it is to not kill an innocent person.

Especially when the alternative isn't "go free" but "remain incarcerated". As long as they are found guilty, they are imprisoned. If they are exonerated, they can be freed.

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to mndsm: Some of the jury members now think they made a bad decision. And people seem misinformed about the appeals process. They don't retry your case and declare your guilt or innocence. They examine specific issues.

In the Davis adjudication, the US Supreme Court mandated a total review of the case; nothing was found to force a new trial. No new compelling evidence was ever revealed at any of Davis' appeals; the defense stood on what they had from the beginning.

In OJ's case, the evidence pointed to a particular suspect and same occurred in Davis' case. One person was exonerated and the other wasn't. Maybe that's why Lady Justice carries a scale.