IBTL. thanks frenchy.
IBTL. thanks frenchy.
frenchyd said:....Jails should be used as they were originally created for. Restrain dangers to society. It would usually be cheaper to put addicts, homeless, etc up at cheap hotels than to arrest and jail them...
As I mentioned, there is clearly not one solution. Generally those that want help, can pretty easily get it.
Also, you may not be getting the same news on the subject in your area that I am in mine (near one of the very permissive areas). There is a segment that is very much a danger to society. Not only in random violent attacks (pushing people in front of busses, randomly stabbing and killing a man in front of his daughter in a restaurant, randomly beating a 60 year old woman to death just two days ago), there is a very real threat of contagious disease outbreaks (typhus outbreak in downtown, hepatitis etc).
As also mentioned, many of these people have no want to live in any type of controlled environment (unless the plan is to just let them do whatever they want in this hotel). 80% in a survey of those living in one of the illegal camps (a very large camp BTW) recently stated that (of course, these will be the more hardcore of the population, but also the ones that are of the most concern).
In reply to Toebra :
But are jails cheaper than a cheap hotel /boarding house? Anything involving the legal system is bound to be much more expensive.
AngryCorvair said:IBTL. thanks frenchy.
Let me help you
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aircooled said:frenchyd said:....Jails should be used as they were originally created for. Restrain dangers to society. It would usually be cheaper to put addicts, homeless, etc up at cheap hotels than to arrest and jail them...
As I mentioned, there is clearly not one solution. Generally those that want help, can pretty easily get it.
Also, you may not be getting the same news on the subject in your area that I am in mine (near one of the very permissive areas). There is a segment that is very much a danger to society. Not only in random violent attacks (pushing people in front of busses, randomly stabbing and killing a man in front of his daughter in a restaurant, randomly beating a 60 year old woman to death just two days ago), there is a very real threat of contagious disease outbreaks (typhus outbreak in downtown, hepatitis etc).
As also mentioned, many of these people have no want to live in any type of controlled environment (unless the plan is to just let them do whatever they want in this hotel). 80% in a survey of those living in one of the illegal camps (a very large camp BTW) recently stated that (of course, these will be the more hardcore of the population, but also the ones that are of the most concern).
You bring up a valid issue. How to discriminate those who need help from those with serious mental issues.
Guys, don’t let him drag this down into the cesspool. Just Say No to responding.
frenchyd said:In reply to Toebra :
But are jails cheaper than a cheap hotel /boarding house? Anything involving the legal system is bound to be much more expensive.
Cheap hotel/boarding house is not a viable suggestion, unless the plan is for them to do as they please in the hotel with respect to drug/alcohol and with the intention of having to refurbish the boarding house or even tear it down and rebuild it after it is trashed. It will get trashed. There are sections of the American River Parkway near me that are nearly superfund toxic waste levels of trash and drug use detritus.
I was changing the dressing on this diabetic crackhead guy today and he was not abusive or profane and actually apologized for being an a-hole to me and the nurse who was in the room at the time.
Probably the strangest thing in a month. I attribute it to his taking Seroquel for a couple straight weeks.
Oh yeah, he is still in the hospital. Case manager thinks she may have found him a spot in a SNF(Skilled Nursing Facility) that is willing to accept him. Place is directly on my route home from the hospital. If that actually happens, that will be the strangest.
Thanks for the update.
The guy probably doesn't actually -want- to be an a-hole, it's just the state he's gotten himself to.
FToebra said:frenchyd said:In reply to Toebra :
But are jails cheaper than a cheap hotel /boarding house? Anything involving the legal system is bound to be much more expensive.
Cheap hotel/boarding house is not a viable suggestion, unless the plan is for them to do as they please in the hotel with respect to drug/alcohol and with the intention of having to refurbish the boarding house or even tear it down and rebuild it after it is trashed. It will get trashed. There are sections of the American River Parkway near me that are nearly superfund toxic waste levels of trash and drug use detritus.
Something I hadn’t considered when I made my suggestion. Can civilization co-exist with drug use/abuse?
If it can’t, what options are there? Can we build drug habitat on superfund sites? Build them with non permeable materials? Concrete and epoxy paint?
In the Navy ( Philippines) they built transit barracks that way. Beds were on posts and a couple of times a night they flushed water over the floor to clean up vomit and other body fluids.
I understand the need to isolate drug abusers from normal population.
Best thing I can post is some people want to commit Suicide, Some people want to go missing. If the guy doesn't want help, then dont lise sleep over it. He and he alone is responsible for his actions, not you.
Update:
He finally got discharged from the hospital into a boarding house, 20 days after I did the transmetatarsal amputation on him. First time I have ever taken out all the staples I put in prior to my patient being discharged. He was out of the hospital less than 48 hours and was brought back, so high on meth he was incoherent.
We shall see how long he remains an inpatient this time.
It's like watching an episode of LivePD.
Trust me, without Smell-o-vision you don't get the total effect
Toebra said:Trust me, without Smell-o-vision you don't get the total effect
Thank God
Toebra said:Trust me, without Smell-o-vision you don't get the total effect
Imma barf just thinking about that.
In reply to Toebra :
Much as I hate to say it, I stand by my posts here.
Duke, you are just a realist.
Update, guy is still in the hospital. He has been walking around on it and smoking cigarettes regularly. He is starting to destroy what is left of his foot, which will never heal if he continues as he has been, which is certain. He was griping about not having the thing wrapped up like he wanted. Claimed he had a PhD, so he should be able to dictate his plan of care. In his case, PhD does not stand for "Doctor of Philosophy," it stands for "Pretty Horrible Demeanor." His idea about taking over the treatment plan went over like a lead ballon, no dice. He continues to refuse blood sugar checks, antibiotics or treatment for his various wounds. A human is a very difficult animal to kill.
California is one of those places where it is challenging to have someone "committed" against their will
So, out of curiousity, what does Dr. Tweaker say about his care plan?
He says he is not too keen on the take it off below the knee thing. His actions loudly proclaim otherwise.
So morbid curiosity is killing the cat here. Any updates? I hope your patient has turned it around, but I doubt it to be the case.
As an aside, I find these stories so interesting. It is the intersection of politics, compassion, anger, hospitality, science, addiction, independence, and stupidity--with no right answer.
So glad to see this thread pop up again. At the time it first came around, my 32-year-old nephew had just died after a long history of intravenous drug use resulted in first a minor stroke, and then a major one because he left the hospital AMA multiple times to seek drugs.
Many of you made astute observations, but there was also a lot of flippant and heartless "advice" the first time around. Looking forward to another round of judgments from people who have obviously never watched a struggling soul self-destruct. Or maybe they have, and enjoyed it as much as they did when they tortured flies as young 'uns. Either way, perhaps now is a good time to get a soul of your own.
Margie
Hospice. Keep him sedated. Palliative, non-curative therapy . Let him die. We can't save everyone, especially people who won't contribute to the effort.
Primitive tribes used to set people like this out on the veldt and let the hyenas eat them.
Marjorie Suddard said:So glad to see this thread pop up again. At the time it first came around, my 32-year-old nephew had just died after a long history of intravenous drug use resulted in first a minor stroke, and then a major one because he left the hospital AMA multiple times to seek drugs.
Many of you made astute observations, but there was also a lot of flippant and heartless "advice" the first time around. Looking forward to another round of judgments from people who have obviously never watched a struggling soul self-destruct. Or maybe they have, and enjoyed it as much as they did when they tortured flies as young 'uns. Either way, perhaps now is a good time to get a soul of your own.
Margie
So sorry for your loss, Margie. With your knowledge of addiction, what would you do in this situation?
I really have to believe that the most compassionate answer here is hospice care (if the patient would consent to it, and if it is possible with his Medicare). Take out the HIV, Hep C, Cancer, and Diabetes - sure, lets talk about getting this guy clean. Get him healthy. But add those 4 back in, and I just don't see any life for this person that isn't one of misery--and that isn't even accounting for withdrawal or use of meth (or whatever drugs we're talking about here).
Harry has a bit of a harsh suggestion. I can't say I completely disagree with him though. What to do with a person who adamantly has no interest in helping themselves?
But, the reality is, you really need to do something that is not effectively encouraging behavior that is both not good for the person and not good for society in general (which appears to be what is being done now).
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