Educate me on kayaks

A few months ago in a lockdown induced state of boredom,  the missus bought a pair of inflatable kayaks so she could have something fun to do with her friends who were also out of work.  She used them once and deemed them too much work to set up and tear down.

Friday I took a very rare day off work and we decided to take them out to the reservoir for a bit of a paddle around.  I'd never done it before. We had a great time.  Then Saturday we went to a section of river downtown and had a very relaxing few hours enjoying watching the dragonflies and ducks and herons, chatting with fellow people out on the water. We have loved every second of it and want to do more.

The limitations of the Intex challenger inflatable boat are very apparent,  even to someone with exactly 4 hours of kayaking experience. The clicking of the snap together paddles with every stroke doesn't inspire confidence either.

And that is how today,  a person best described as "indoorsy", who once walked past an REI on the way to a bar and whos closest approximation to "activewear" is cutoff carhartt pants and some old chuck taylors is considering a trip to a sporting goods store to find a pair of kayaks that aren't made by a low end wading pool company.  

So keeping in mind two past middle age people who intend to leisurely paddle around relatively still waters. 

Sit on vs sit in?  Lifetime tamarack is appealing and seems like it might be easier to wedge my doughy self into. 

Fishing kayaks seem like they should be quite stable for beginners.  Or do they just have a mount for a pole?

Craigslist and marketplace are currently a bust.  Anything local is too high end. 

What should a beginner be looking at ?

Smaller than a canoe, and less annoying. 

Is there an actual non-Cabala/Bass Pro outdoors store around? If you were in Ottawa I'd send you to Trailhead. Someplace that has actual paddlers working there that you can talk to. If they sell whitewater boats, that's a good sign.

Personally, I love proper sea kayaks like Current Design boats. Fast and sleek. But they're a pain to transport and aren't as suitable for the "jump in and noodle around" mode. Skirts do keep your lap dry as you paddle.

But what you want is a cottage boat. Sit on top is definitely the easy button, and easy means you'll use it. Wide (basically) is stable. And honestly, those inflatables may not be a terrible option. Maybe get a different paddle if it's loose in the middle, that's not an inherent feature of a two-piece.

for a beginner, wider is better.  That is your initial stability.  I prefer "sit in" because it puts your bodyweight lower, but if any water gets in, you are going to be sitting in or very close to it. 

There's been a run on them around here.  You may be limited by availability.

You don't want a white-water boat for playing on calm water.  They are a blast, but they aren't really suitable for any sort of distance.  Having a keel and rudder is great if you are doing any type of distance.  Personally, I like the cheap, plastic, sit-inside kayaks the best.  They are pretty indestructible, which allows you to be "carefree" as you approach things.  They are a bit more tiring over distance, because they rarely have a rudder or meaningful keep, so they tend to "crab" and go offline.

Pay attention to the paddle -- make sure you get a proper size.  And you absolutely want a paddler's life vest.  Otherwise you will rub your skin raw from the more traditional jackets that you may have available.

I'd rather kayak than canoe any day of the week. 

Yes, I came in to say, "expect limited availability." 

Like yourselves, the bored new world is discovering the outdoors. Simultaneously, Chinese imports have slowed. 

On the flip side, you might be able to sell the ones you bought early for more than you paid. 

CL is your friend.  There is a very nice one near me for sale I have been watching. Waiting to see if it drops to $400 before I go look and offer $300

We've been looking lately as well. The Sundolphin Kayak we both want to get (each of us our own, that is) is sold out EVERYWHERE. There are a few on eBay, but the asking price is 3.5x MSRP. 

So just going to have to wait until they become available, or try to find a used one.

ZOO (Forum Supporter) said:

There's been a run on them around here.  You may be limited by availability.

You don't want a white-water boat for playing on calm water.  They are a blast, but they aren't really suitable for any sort of distance.  Having a keel and rudder is great if you are doing any type of distance.  Personally, I like the cheap, plastic, sit-inside kayaks the best.  They are pretty indestructible, which allows you to be "carefree" as you approach things.  They are a bit more tiring over distance, because they rarely have a rudder or meaningful keep, so they tend to "crab" and go offline.

Pay attention to the paddle -- make sure you get a proper size.  And you absolutely want a paddler's life vest.  Otherwise you will rub your skin raw from the more traditional jackets that you may have available.

I'd rather kayak than canoe any day of the week. 

It's all about the design. I have a "lake" Perception that's made of the usual indestructible poly (I think it's a Carolina 14') and it tracks beautifully.  No rudder, and I'd happily take it on a multi-day backwater tour. 

Agreed that you don't want a whitewater boat for flatwater noodling around. They're slugs and they don't like to go straight. It's like driving a purpose-built autocross special on the interstate. My reason for suggesting a store that sells whitewater boats is that they'll sell other kayaks as well, but are far more likely to know about kayaks than a mega sports store that has a few plastic boats stacked up outside. 

There's a joy to managing a nimble canoe solo. My uncle has a 12' canvas Chestnut that is the happiest little thing solo. But yeah, kayaks are the performance option.

If it sounds like I have a lot of kayaks, I do :) If we count the ones that live at our cottage, I think there are seven in the immediate family. Plus the canoe.

mad_machine (Forum Supporter) said:

CL is your friend.  There is a very nice one near me for sale I have been watching. Waiting to see if it drops to $400 before I go look and offer $300

My experience has been that FB Marketplace is where it's at for this kind of thing lately.

Our neighborhood borders a large lake, so we bought an Intex Challenger like Trent's and a pair of Pelican Stinger sit-on-top kayaks.  None of these kayaks are good for river whitewater, but lake use has been fun.  The rigid kayaks track straighter and glide more easily through the water.  Their seating position is 'on top' of the water instead of 'in' the water.  But even though the inflatable isn't as quite as fast or as easy to steer as the rigid kayaks, the fact that it is lighter and can quickly be deflated to carry-on size is a *huge* plus.  Deflated, it's super easy to toss in my car for transport and to fit on a shelf in my garage.  On the other hand, the rigid kayaks are about 10 feet long and just lifting/maneuvering on land them is tricky.  We have to trailer them to the water, and they stay outside because there's not enough space in my garage right now to store them.  

PS -- I picked up all three kayaks and the trailer for a total of $400, so deals are out there if you keep looking.

We have 3 kyacks, mine is a Perception Carolona 14' with a rudder. I would take this anywhere but tapids. Handles well, little.geavy but great in the water. My wife has a Perception 13' without a rudder.  This boat is great and a bit lighter. Most times a rudder is not needed. The grandkids share a Perception 9.5' .  It is super light but tracks poorly due to its length.  As others have said get an injection molded plastic one, used is fine ($200-$400)  and a good paddle (<$50) and life jacket. If you don't have a pick up, get roof racks so you can transport them easily.  We use ours 8-10 times a season and then are our secondary outdoor activity.  Try the FB marketplace and the local sporting goods stores. Never know when you can trip over a deal.

Kayak fever struck the Frog household years ago.  11 on racks in the back yard.  Lots of Perceptions.  I have bought all mine at end of season sales of kayak rental companies.

I use sit-on-top for skinny water fishing in salt water.  Easy to get off and walk oyster bars, etc.  Also good for Gulf coast summer beach use.

We travel in the motorhome with 13 - 14 footers for ease of handling on dry land, loading etc.

Have the long crusiers for making good distance/speed on long trips.  My favorite units (speed).

Short units for the younger grandkids.

Two seat enclosed for hauling babies, dogs, and winter duck hunting.

The whitewater model is now just a visible trophy reminding me somehow i survived.  

Lots of what is written in above posts is good advice.

The salt water units have ruined two steel trailers so far, even though the trailers don't get in the water. I'm guessing just from dripping on the way home.    An aluminum trailer is on the wish list.

I also have a Perception Carolina 14, it’s great.  Nice glide due to the length and the rudder is handy when it’s windy.  You steer with your feet (foot rests).  You can flip the rudder down and back up when underway.  We also have a couple of Heritage Featherlights that are about 10 feet long, half the weight of the Perception.  They track decently as the have a small keg molded in at the stern.   They’re more maneuverable but aren’t as fast as the Carolina.   Longer waterline is your friend if you’re going longer distances. 

I have a pelican. It's a sit on, entry level. But it's comfortable and plenty stable with my chunky ass in it. Walmart sells a gray sit on (idk the brand) that looks like a pelican knock off for a good price. I'd look into that. 

Does Hobie still make the odyssey- the kayak that you can pedal?

And for Trent - I'd try to find different paddles and then just run what you brung for a while. See if the initial fascination wears off.  

I've had my Wilderness Systems Pungo for almost 20 years. Its a poly, sit-in, with no rudder. It's a very stable and forgiving kayak. My father had a pair of sit-on-tops, and I didn't really care for them, although I think they would be fun in fairly shallow salt water, like fooling around along a beach.

I've paddled much longer sea kayaks, and I understand their appeal, but that's not the type of kayaking that I expect to do. After a couple of hours, I'm done.

For a well designed small to medium kayak, you shouldn't need a rudder. I prefer not to have one, as you have really solid footing in non-rudder boat. In a boat with a rudder, it's harder to brace yourself, even with the rudder up and locked, there's a lot of flex in the cables. But you probably do need one in a long sea kayak.

I've paddled a couple of tandems, and I really don't enjoy them.

Paddle with your abs, not your arms.

And buy a bigass hat.

I also suggest going to an actual paddle shop. I did a fast search and saw these guys near you:

Oregon Paddle Sports

Some REI locations sell kayaks, and can have very knowledgeable people working in the department. 

Bass Pro Shops sells some good sit on top kayaks at reasonable prices, too. If I went this route, I'd get avoid the ones under 10' in length.

Here are my tips:
1. Raised seating in a kayak helps on long trips
2. The cut of your life vest is important for comfort. Since you're *always* going to be wearing your PFD, get one that fits well. It's worth spending money on
3. There is a trade off between weight, quality and price. Good, light kayaks are expensive.
4. The Native Ultimate is a hybrid canoe-kayak. They're super stable, not very heavy, can take class II rapids out of the box, Class III with a bit of prep, track really well and are generally a great all around boat. 
5.  I grab my 11' solo canoe to use on the lakes and rivers here. I've customized the canoe a bit- web search Old Town Guide 119 modifications. I can stand up in mine. 
6. Cheap kayaks can have thin plastic that won't hold up to many scrapes.
7. Many kayak stores run demo events or have loaner boats. I think some REIs do this, too. If you can try it before you buy it, DO IT.
8. If you've got Facebook, look for local paddling groups- it'll probably be a wealth of information. Related to number seven, above, somebody might be willing to let you try their kayak out, too.
9. Paddle fit varies depending on the width of the kayak you get and the seating position. Having a paddle that's too short or too long will make you miserable. Likewise, the shape of the blade should match your paddling style.
 

100% go to a demo day, I don't know how I blanked on that one. Nothing beats trying the boat. When I got my Perception, part of the condition of the deal was that I had to get some water time in it. The store was happy to work with me because, as paddling guys, they understood. Also, at least one of mine is an ex-rental. Also a good suggestion. 

Note that a seating position height and stability are inversely proportional :) 

My whitewater boats don't get any love these days, but that's because I don't have the Ottawa River in my backyard anymore. I used to be able to walk to the end of the block, toss the boat into the river, paddle down to some surfing waves and paddle home when I was done. My biggest regret about selling that house, because I'll never be able to afford to get back into that neighborhood. You get a bit of a weird look when you're walking down a residential street wearing a dripping kayak skirt. I do recommend carrying a kayak whilst doing this to avoid too many questions.

...and because we're a car site and I miss paddling here in the desert, here are a few pics from the archives :) A 007, RPM and Redline on the Golf.

Three 18' Current Designs. Beautiful boats to paddle, a bitch to portage through the Canadian woods. These were rented, I always wanted to keep one.

Somewhere I have a picture of my Miata with a whitewater boat on it. Top down, one end on the windshield frame and one on the roll bar. 

Plastic sea kayaks. Borrowed from a coworker, these now live in my garage because I have room. So I guess the count could be 9...

Don't have many pics from this era on this computer, but I'm in this shot. No, not the obvious one. You can just see the bottom of my boat if you know where to look. I was practicing my roll, this is the first half...

So when we went out and bought ours, We talked to the guide we had on a kayaking tour we did. They did a great job of letting us know the pro's and con's of the different styles. It was a great education for us. So if there is a local tour shop, it may be worth it to strike up a conversation there as well. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

My kayak pics are so old that they're all in a shoebox!

Woody said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

My kayak pics are so old that they're all in a shoebox!

You'll notice that at least three of these are scans :) The rest are...in a shoebox.

Make sure you're comfortable loading your kayak on your car or your trailer. They make loading assist type things.

Topping a Hobie PA12 means you develop a technique so you don't get a wrenched back or a hernia. I don't suggest doing this, actually.



 

We bought a pair of the previous model of these from Dick's

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/pelican-trailblazer-100-nxt-kayak-17pelutrlblzr100npsk/17pelutrlblzr100npsk

I believe we got them on sale for ~$199.  

Pro's : Easy to paddle, rear deck storage with net is handy.  Has water bottle holder an a little net under the dash for holding stuff.  Multiple foot supports.  Fairly comfortable seat.   Seems Durable.  Tracks Straight.  The seat shape is PERFECT to flip over and carry resting on your shoulders, I can actually carry it handsfree it balances so well.

Con's : It has no sealed off storage so you need a wet bag.  We cary our cellphones in the under dash net enclosed in a slightly inflated ziplock bag.  It also has no floating foam so it will basically sink if it gets swamped (This is common at this price point).  Apparently many people cram them full of pool noodles behind the seat area so they won't sink.    If you are heavy (I'm 230) it can get sketch in waves.  They claim 275lb capacity but If you weigh more then 225 and plan on carying anything I'd look for a bit bigger boat.  The hull design is pretty efficient at low speeds and you can paddle quicker but there is a point where the hull starts to really resist increases in speed.  It's at a speed that is well beyond recreational kayaking and in no way affects use of the boat it's just something I noticed.  

We own two other kayaks for our 7 & 9 year old

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lifetime-Wave-Kayak-with-Paddle-Youth-Green/112972084

We got ours at Walmart for ~$70.

These are fantastic.  They handle great for the kids, and when they tire out we hook them up using the front handle to our back handle and tow them around.  Weight capacity is 130lbs and they are sealed so they can't swamp.  We bought some clip in seats and the kids like them a bunch.  The other bonus is the perceptions fit on top of them upside down, and the top of them are flat so we can put all 4 on top of our car and strap them down.  

When the kids get bigger and weight out of the small kayaks our plan is to let them have the perceptions and buy something in the $500 range for us to keep forever.  Unless I build 2 wooden kayaks....

Sit on top.  You fall out, you get back on.  Sit inside are a major production to remount in deep water.  Which is water where you feet don't touch the bottom.

If you are a heavy person go for a wider kayak.  You will flip more easily and getting back on may be impossible for you if you lack upper body strength to lift yourself.

  And always wear a PDF.  A friend of mine drowned because he hit his head when he fell off his paddle board, probably the easiest thing to re-mount,  and that was that since he had decided PDF's were too  hot to wear in Texas in the summer. 

  The sit inside Sea Kayak people practice remounting a lot. Its important to the extent they won't let people into their clubs until they prove they can remount on open water.   So that is my reason for staying away from sit insides.

Fishing kayaks are stable.   They are a little heavier.  But are sit-on top and usually have storage space on top.  Just be sure you tie down your stuff.

Read reviews don't get one of the really cheap ones because they don't last and are hard to keep going straight until you learn to paddle.

12 to 14 feet is a good range for leisure paddling.    Longer catches the wind more.  Shorter is slower and harder to paddle in straight line. 

  A rudder helps on any kayak but does add some drag, not a problem for a leisure paddler who probably won't hit 3 mph but you don't really need one..

Very important:  Get good paddles.  Not the cheap things.    Get paddles with a good rating, probably close $100.  This will make a difference.  Do not get a wing paddle for what you want to do, those are for kayak racing in light weight racing K-1's and Surf Ski's.

Don't do what I did and start wanting to race kayaks.  You get into longer, lighter, more expensive and considerably less stable.  Think how the cost of peddle powered road bikes can go from $500 to $10,000. 

For racing kayaks: Imagine learning to ride a unicycle.  Then imagine you want to ride on the 4 inch side of a 2 x 4.  But that's not enough, you want to balance on the 2 inch side.  But that's not enough, you want to balance on a steel cable.  That is the difficulty progression of faster and faster kayaks that are carbon fiber, weight 20 lbs, and you are pushing to over 8 mph and expending bicycle racing level energy to do it.  Each couple of step changes of the  faster kayaks is almost like learning to ride a bicycle over again.  

The stability level of an Olympic Kayak is called a 1.  Entry level racing kayaks have a stability rating of 10.  Fishing kayaks have probably a rating from 15 to 20.