ever wonder why i distrust the police these days?

In reply to KyAllroad:

To be fair, outside the clothing body armor is probably cheaper for departments to buy, more capable at protecting(thicker), and I can vouch for it being more comfortable.

KyAllroad wrote: Now with our newest chief has our force wearing outside the shirt body armor and full tactical gear. It looks ridiculous IMHO

Like tactical outside-the-shirt gear with MOLLE? I think the outside-the-shirt uniform style vests are straight goofy looking and who wants to wear a tactical vest all day? Too bulky.

The police have a tough job---one that I don't want, so I have to give them respect for doing the dirtywork no one else wants to do.

However, lately here in Daytona Beach they have taken to parking their huge "Mobile Command Center" box-truck on the street in the main party district here in town. They leave the lights flashing all night, take up 4 or more parking spaces (parking is at a premium) and do nothing, but stand there and intimidate. It looks like a bank has been robbed, with all the lights flashing--- and all the while drunks speed down the busy street---without the cops stopping them. I guess they are too busy looking tough, and staring down anyone who dares look them in the eye. It's a show of force, and intimidation.

I guess I'm out of date, but if the police want to be respected, they should protect and serve-----not bully and intimidate.

I typically stay out of these conversations, but...

Here is an article from SAIL Magazine that says it all. Its a little long but quite the eye opener!

Coast Guard Boardings and Your Fourth Amendment Rights, Part 1 Posted by Clark Beek // October 25, 2012

Sorry, but when it comes to Coast Guard boardings, you don’t have any rights.
I’m surprised how many boaters don’t know this. The US Coast Guard can board your boat any time they want, and look anywhere they want, without probable cause or a warrant. They can do this on the open sea, or while you’re asleep aboard in your marina at midnight. They can look through your bedsheets, in your lockers, in your bilges, in your jewelry box, or in your pockets. They can do it carrying just their sidearms, or they can do it carrying assault rifles. They can be polite about it or they can be rude, but mostly they’re polite.
If you’re an avid boater you can expect to be boarded every year or two.
I explain this to my guests aboard Condesa, some of whom are lawyers, and I’m met with disbelief: “But that’s a blatant violation of your constitutional rights! They need probable cause, or a warrant from a judge!” “Not on a boat, my friend, not on a boat.”

The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:

Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.
Sweeping powers. In a paper in the William and Mary Law Review, law scholar Greg Shelton says, “In terms of enforcement power, Coast Guard boarding officers are clearly America's "supercops."” Another law scholar, Megan Jaye Kight, says, "As such, these provisions comprise what has been accurately characterized as 'one of the most sweeping grants of police authority ever to be written into U.S. law.'"
If you’d like to know a little more detail about the boarding policy, here’s a longer document, meant for the public, in the Coast Guard’s own words.
And here’s an article by a retired Coast Guard captain and Coast Guard legal counsel. The pull quote kind of says it all: “There are two main ways to board a vessel—either with permission, or without.”

Joe Gearin wrote: I guess I'm out of date, but if the police want to be respected, they should protect and serve-----not bully and intimidate.

This bears repeating over and over.

This Coast Guard article comes to my attention in a local newpaper article that highlights that in Marblehead, OH on the shores of lake Erie, (my neighborhood) the local Coast Guard Station has issued more citations than any other station in the US; 70 citations.
This from a station that really only has a "season" from May to Oct. In other words, in 2 months worth of season, this station has issued more citations than even the "year round" stations like you might have in CA or FL!!

I don't know, all the interactions Ive ever had with Cops have been fairly pleasant....well except for the ticket at the end. I hear of all these abuses and what have you on the news but I do not know anyone personally who has been unjustly harassed by the cops. Sure when I was 19 and had a 5L Foxbody with straight pipes and cherry bombs I had more interaction with them, but now, I can't even remember the last time I was stopped.

Bobzilla wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote: I guess I'm out of date, but if the police want to be respected, they should protect and serve-----not bully and intimidate.

This bears repeating over and over.

I've come to the conclusion that many forces are more predatory towards the people that they used to "serve and protect". What percentage of a force would be gone if they didn't have to meet a quota of sorts?

JohnRW1621 wrote: ....And here’s an article by a retired Coast Guard captain and Coast Guard legal counsel. The pull quote kind of says it all: “There are two main ways to board a vessel—either with permission, or without.”

[ cut to: Car being pulled over, officer walks up to the window ]

"Hello officer, uhm, is that a Coast Guard uniform?"

[ Office takes a cup of water he got from the local river and throws it next to the tire ]

"Yes sir, you are correct. Now, can you please step out of your vessel so I can begin my search..."

The thing that gets me the most is how blatant they are about how antisocial they have become. I remember when most police cars were white CVPIs with high contrast lettering and big light bars. Now the newest car in my 3 cop hometown is a gray F150, with camper top, hidden lights, and slightly darker gray lettering.

I also remember when they wore shirts and ties, and a hat, not combat clothing.

<-------- Watching as his town goes to E36 M3 and is infested with hoodlums. (All skin colors)

I'm of the opinion that the police need to have the right and ability to respond to any threat level at a moment's notice. You can't effectively police the streets if you're worried about offending someone or trying to treat everyone with kid gloves. If anything I think they need to loosen the leash a bit more. They should be free to put foot to ass, should the need arise.

Take a look at Russian cops, they will beat the berkeley out of somebody at the drop of a hat.

If you found yourself in Russia would you break the law?

The_Jed wrote: <-------- Watching as his town goes to E36 M3 and is infested with hoodlums. (All skin colors) I'm of the opinion that the police need to have the right and ability to respond to any threat level at a moment's notice. You can't effectively police the streets if you're worried about offending someone or trying to treat everyone with kid gloves. If anything I think they need to loosen the leash a bit more. They should be free to put foot to ass, should the need arise. Take a look at Russian cops, they will beat the berkeley out of somebody at the drop of a hat. If you found yourself in Russia would you break the law?

Your town is going down because of the lack of jobs and industry. Cops have nothing to do with it.

I got pulled over last week. For the first time in my life I got let go with a warning. Based on my experience they are getting better

Joe Gearin wrote: I guess I'm out of date, but if the police want to be respected, they should protect and serve-----not bully and intimidate.

I agree 100%. Luckily, in my almost-50 years living in a fairly wide variety of places over the eastern half of this country, that's exactly what they've always done for me. I've never gotten so much as a ticket that I didn't actually deserve.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: The thing that gets me the most is how blatant they are about how antisocial they have become. I remember when most police cars were white CVPIs with high contrast lettering and big light bars. Now the newest car in my 3 cop hometown is a gray F150, with camper top, hidden lights, and slightly darker gray lettering. I also remember when they wore shirts and ties, and a hat, not combat clothing.

cop cars used to be a deterent- you saw the Caprice or Crown Vic with the big lights on it and you either asked yourself if you were doing something wrong, or you tried to stop doing something that you knew you were doing wrong...

now they are all stealthy, driving all sorts of different vehicles painted all sorts of different colors, with low profile LED light bars that you can't see until they start flashing at you- if they even have a light bar at all. they have gone from a mentality of preventing things from happening to a mentality of sneaking up and busting you after you do something.

and everyone is breaking a law of some kind at any given time..

my county (Wright County, MN) has an MRAP that they got for free from the DHS... they say they are going to use it to respond to natural disasters, and in the event that the nuclear reactor at the Monticello plant melts down or something.. but i know the mentality of the county, and they will decide that they need to have a well armed SWAT team like all the cool counties and use their cool new armored truck to knock down trailer houses that they think might have a meth lab inside..

The_Jed wrote: If you found yourself in Russia would you break the law?

Holy E36 M3. Seriously...you're using RUSSIA as an example of how the system should work?

Yeah, they have the ability to put boot to ass. They also have the ability to jail you for long periods of time for spurious reasons, and they are corrupt as all hell. Third-party oversight is nil, there's press intimidation, and in general everything that's systemically bad about our police system (lack of accountability, immunity to prosecution, etc.) is worse there.

"In Post-Soviet Russia, you don't break the law. The law breaks you!"

novaderrik wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: The thing that gets me the most is how blatant they are about how antisocial they have become. I remember when most police cars were white CVPIs with high contrast lettering and big light bars. Now the newest car in my 3 cop hometown is a gray F150, with camper top, hidden lights, and slightly darker gray lettering. I also remember when they wore shirts and ties, and a hat, not combat clothing.

cop cars used to be a deterent- you saw the Caprice or Crown Vic with the big lights on it and you either asked yourself if you were doing something wrong, or you tried to stop doing something that you knew you were doing wrong... now they are all stealthy, driving all sorts of different vehicles painted all sorts of different colors, with low profile LED light bars that you can't see until they start flashing at you- if they even have a light bar at all. they have gone from a mentality of preventing things from happening to a mentality of sneaking up and busting you after you do something. and everyone is breaking a law of some kind at any given time.. my county (Wright County, MN) has an MRAP that they got for free from the DHS... they say they are going to use it to respond to natural disasters, and in the event that the nuclear reactor at the Monticello plant melts down or something.. but i know the mentality of the county, and they will decide that they need to have a well armed SWAT team like all the cool counties and use their cool new armored truck to knock down trailer houses that they think might have a meth lab inside..

Never know when you'll need to bust up an overly randy bunch of blue hairs at the Medina ballroom.....

I was born in Flint MI and lived here most of my life. Ten years ago I was pulled over and harassed for driving while white. It is not pleasant having your girlfriend( black woman) accused of being a hooker and me being the customer or pimp. They threatened to arrest and hold us for the weekend while they checked out our "story". I dropped a few names and was let go with a warning not to drive that flashy car (Mercedes Benz 190e 2.3 16v) in that part of town after dark.

The bastards have too much authority and plenty of arrogance.

novaderrik wrote: cop cars used to be a deterent- you saw the Caprice or Crown Vic with the big lights on it and you either asked yourself if you were doing something wrong, or you tried to stop doing something that you knew you were doing wrong... now they are all stealthy, driving all sorts of different vehicles painted all sorts of different colors, with low profile LED light bars that you can't see until they start flashing at you- if they even have a light bar at all. they have gone from a mentality of preventing things from happening to a mentality of sneaking up and busting you after you do something.

This is very true, unfortunately. Heck, the MD staties used to have an empty cruiser with a dummy in it that the highway department guys would move from place to place on the median strip of I-95. You'd drive past it sitting there in a highly visible spot, and 80% of the traffic would slow down to a reasonable speed. It had a real cop in just enough times that you couldn't afford to get complacent about blowing past it.

That tactic was very efficient and effective at getting people to comply with the law. It was NOT, however, very effective at generating revenue.

JohnRW1621 wrote: This Coast Guard article comes to my attention in a local newpaper article that highlights that in Marblehead, OH on the shores of lake Erie, (my neighborhood) the local Coast Guard Station has issued more citations than any other station in the US; 70 citations. This from a station that really only has a "season" from May to Oct. In other words, in 2 months worth of season, this station has issued more citations than even the "year round" stations like you might have in CA or FL!!

As I plan to do some sailing on Erie in a somewhat questionable boat, noted.

Duke wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote: I guess I'm out of date, but if the police want to be respected, they should protect and serve-----not bully and intimidate.

I agree 100%. Luckily, in my almost-50 years living in a fairly wide variety of places over the eastern half of this country, that's exactly what they've always done for me. I've never gotten so much as a ticket that I didn't actually deserve.

Same here. In fact, they've cut me way more slack than I deserve sometimes.

mtn wrote:

The_Jed wrote: <-------- Watching as his town goes to E36 M3 and is infested with hoodlums. (All skin colors) I'm of the opinion that the police need to have the right and ability to respond to any threat level at a moment's notice. You can't effectively police the streets if you're worried about offending someone or trying to treat everyone with kid gloves. If anything I think they need to loosen the leash a bit more. They should be free to put foot to ass, should the need arise. Take a look at Russian cops, they will beat the berkeley out of somebody at the drop of a hat. If you found yourself in Russia would you break the law?

Your town is going down because of the lack of jobs and industry. Cops have nothing to do with it.

I was re-enforcing my opinion that the local cops are too soft on criminals. The lack of jobs is a big factor but the lack of crime deterring law enforcement plays a role as well.

psteav wrote:

The_Jed wrote: If you found yourself in Russia would you break the law?

Holy E36 M3. Seriously...you're using RUSSIA as an example of how the system should work? Yeah, they have the ability to put boot to ass. They also have the ability to jail you for long periods of time for spurious reasons, and they are corrupt as all hell. Third-party oversight is nil, there's press intimidation, and in general everything that's systemically bad about our police system (lack of accountability, immunity to prosecution, etc.) is worse there. "In Post-Soviet Russia, you don't break the law. The law breaks you!"

It was just the first example that popped into my head of people who are actually deterred from committing crimes by their police force. It's not necessarily the way I think our police force should run things, just the first one I thought of.

In reply to JohnRW1621:

The biggest difference with the Coast Guard doing those things is that they aren't actually searching your vessel, they are inspecting it. It's no different than getting your car inspected for your tags, except in regards to officer safety.

On the majority of small pleasure vessels, nearly every "space" contains some sort of safety equipment, or contains a bilge, which the Coast Guard officers need to inspect to ensure the vessel is safe to be on, both for them AND YOU.

Cops being tougher on the criminals won’t deter them. And that really isn’t the cops, it is the laws that you have an issue with. The police enforce the laws that are there. If we want to have a discussion about your town specifically though, it starts with the parents. The kids have problems because they get a poor education and are often in poor health. Both of these are because the parents aren’t involved. The parents aren’t involved because they both have to work 2 poor paying jobs to make ends meet (although this will stem to poor financial education; they can pay the cable but not for kids shoe’s). The parents don’t come home and teach the kid to read; they don’t come home and help with the math homework, they don’t show the kid how to cook and teach them fractions through that avenue—again, they don’t cook because they’re working 2 poor paying jobs and don’t have time, and then they bring home McDonalds and we get to the poor health. The kids are in poor health because the parents aren’t home to force the kids outside to move, or play sports, or the parents can’t afford the sports—and the aforementioned crappy food. Which also likely stems from a lack of education. Source: Anecdotes from teachers in your town.

And I’m not saying they’re all like that. I know some great people, great kids, and great parents from your town. There are some really good things going there. But fact is that Cat is on its way out of Peoria, the only thing that Pekin really has is Pekin Insurance (which isn’t much), and Bloomington is far enough away that it doesn’t support Pekin. Heck, if SF leaves Bloomington, we’re going to see this town turn into nothing but a college pretty quickly.