F1 driver

Every NASCAR race I've gone to had real, actual cars there. They raced. Seems like real racing to me.

There is WAY too much money involved for it NOT to be real racing...

Every freeway is full of cars but that's not racing. Having cars there doesn't make it a race.

How many movies have you seen where there is what appears to be a race, but the good guy wins when it counts?

What has money got to do with it being racing. The money is for and from advertising. Advertising rates are all about hits. How many people will see the advert.

Nascar == F1 == Spec Miata. They're spec series.

carguy123 wrote: Every freeway is full of cars but that's not racing. Having cars there doesn't make it a race. How many movies have you seen where there is what appears to be a race, but the good guy wins when it counts? What has money got to do with it being racing. The money is for and from advertising. Advertising rates are all about hits. How many people will see the advert.

Let me start this off by stating that I am not a NASCAR fan. You sound like a butthurt little kid. I'm sorry that your attempt to look superior failed.

Let me start this off by stating that I am not a NASCAR fan. You sound like a butthurt little kid. I'm sorry that your attempt to look superior failed.

Not trying to look superior and my butt doesn't hurt. Facts are facts. For the longest wrestling fans would argue it was real, but they finally embraced the fakeness and began to flaunt it.

Nascar fans are the same people who really get into wrestling, they don't care it's fake. It gives them an excuse to party, yell loud and have fun. What's wrong with that?

I have been around all kinds of racing for years and I don't see anything fake about it. The drivers with talent will always go to the front. Of course the teams ability to set up a winning car is an added plus due to all the restrictions Nascar puts on them.

I understand the bit about how most on this forum are anti-NASCAR.. you seem to hate it for some reason... don't really understand... that said, I'm not much of a NASCAR fan myself these days ... 'bout the only races I watch are the road races, Martinsville, and Darlington...

but guys IT IS RACING...no doubt about it... it has lots that I / we don't like ... of that there is no denying .... but IT IS RACING

carguy123 wrote:

Let me start this off by stating that I am not a NASCAR fan. You sound like a butthurt little kid. I'm sorry that your attempt to look superior failed.

Not trying to look superior and my butt doesn't hurt. Facts are facts. For the longest wrestling fans would argue it was real, but they finally embraced the fakeness and began to flaunt it. Nascar fans are the same people who really get into wrestling, they don't care it's fake. It gives them an excuse to party, yell loud and have fun. What's wrong with that?

Why they hell do you care so much?

For some one who claims to hate NASCAR a lot, you seem to know a lot about them. Why do you feel the need to study them, and then tell others who like them that it's not real racing?

I just don't get it.

I don't like the NBA, but instead of knowing who are the teams that always win, and the fix is in, or when a team comes out of nowhere, I just don't watch. I have better ways to spend my time and effort.

Why "car people" like to bash on other car people based on their car opinions is beyond me.

But I guess it's your life...

Ignorance and bigotry rear their ugly heads...

If it's so fixed how come not one official, who worked in NASCAR has come forward and done a tell all book, about how they fixed the finish week in week out, or said something, anything that could be backed up?

Oh, that's right, the MOB fixes the races for their casinos on all the Indian reservations and 'Vegas.

It's not racing, sports is not sports: it's entertainment chasing your disposable income/time.

These "discussions" always dissolve into drivel and name calling.

NASCAR is really really noisy golf. I can respect the skill and focus of the drivers. I can even imagine it being exciting if I were racing. It's just really really unexciting to watch.

Maroon92 wrote:

T.J. wrote: I'm just glad that the F1 drivers don't also get to race in the GP2 races and win them all.

I'm not sure they could! I do wish F1 drivers would compete in other forms of motorsport though!

Sometimes they do. He can spectacularly crash a WRC car as well as an F1 car.

I am not a fan at all of NASCAR, but I will say that it is where the best drivers in the US end up racing. There are too many good drivers all trying to win for it to be fixed. If they had zero chance to win I'm not convinced that they would be out there running the races.

carguy123 wrote:

Let me start this off by stating that I am not a NASCAR fan. You sound like a butthurt little kid. I'm sorry that your attempt to look superior failed.

Not trying to look superior and my butt doesn't hurt. Facts are facts. For the longest wrestling fans would argue it was real, but they finally embraced the fakeness and began to flaunt it. Nascar fans are the same people who really get into wrestling, they don't care it's fake. It gives them an excuse to party, yell loud and have fun. What's wrong with that?

You guys have convinced me that Nascar is real racing.

It's not any one thing you said, or the fact that your arguments are so compelling, it's the fact that not a single person has threatened to kill me.

When they said wrestling was fake the true fans were so riled up that many who dared speak the truth were beaten up and virtually all of the detractors had their lives threatened. By way of comparison you guys have used a plethora of facts grounded in hard logic to unequivocally prove Nascar is complete free of the taint of sensationalism and control so therefore it must be real racing.

BTW money is why the people who can drive end up in Nascar. They choose the JOB that paid the most &/or got them them the most publicity. The fact that the job is behind the wheel is about as relevent as if they got a job as a chauffeur which I guess would mean that's real racing based upon most arguments you guys have presented.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

And then there's the Flat Earth Society.

Heil Hitler! (no I'm not a skin head or whatever they call them nowadays, it's a joke based upon the cartoon Streetwise posted)

Money wins races, talent helps but talent alone can't do it.

Did Earnhardt not sign your autograph book or something, troll123?

And then there was a driver let go because he wasn't finishing well enough. I think the name was Speed or something. Maybe he can drive the trucks.

Salanis wrote: NASCAR is really really noisy golf. I can respect the skill and focus of the drivers. I can even imagine it being exciting if I were racing. It's just really really unexciting to watch.

I agree 100%....of course, I feel that way about F1, WRC, Indy, BTCC, drags, etc.....I don't really care to spectate with any of it.

I'd rather be participating in an amateur motor sport than sitting on they sofa watching somebody else drive. That's true regardless of how good they are.

carguy123 wrote: By way of comparison you guys have used a plethora of facts grounded in hard logic to unequivocally prove Nascar is complete free of the taint of sensationalism and control so therefore it must be real racing.

don't think anyone on this forum has ever claimed that NASCAR is free of sensationalism and control... doesn't change the fact that the drivers are still racing,......

carguy123 wrote: You guys have convinced me that Nascar is real racing. It's not any one thing you said, or the fact that your arguments are so compelling, it's the fact that not a single person has threatened to kill me. When they said wrestling was fake the true fans were so riled up that many who dared speak the truth were beaten up and virtually all of the detractors had their lives threatened. By way of comparison you guys have used a plethora of facts grounded in hard logic to unequivocally prove Nascar is complete free of the taint of sensationalism and control so therefore it must be real racing. BTW money is why the people who can drive end up in Nascar. They choose the JOB that paid the most &/or got them them the most publicity. The fact that the job is behind the wheel is about as relevent as if they got a job as a chauffeur which I guess would mean that's real racing based upon most arguments you guys have presented. There is none so blind as he who will not see. And then there's the Flat Earth Society. Heil Hitler! (no I'm not a skin head or whatever they call them nowadays, it's a joke based upon the cartoon Streetwise posted)

Obviously NASCAR fans fail to see the set up of it all, as they are all tattooed white trash, and therefore incapable of rational thought

OK, I've said it here before, but one more time won't kill me. I've actually been in Nascar as a crew memeber, as well as IMSA, Grand Am, and SCCA, and have driven in SCCA. Nascar for better or worse is real racing. In fact, it was by far the hardest series we raced in, and the only one we didn't win a championship in as well. We came in out of IMSA as a bunch or road racers, and were treated pretty well actually by the powers that be.

However, at least then (about 10 years ago), you weren't expected to win right away, you had to pay your dues evidently, and some teams were given concessions that others weren't. The rule book itself was maybe an 1/8th of an inch thick, and if you got a part approved for your car, it may or may not be approved for one of the other cars of the same make. Or you might be given a "special" restrictor plate at the appropriate track that gave you a bit better performance. The plates were given out and taken up by the officials, and you never got to see another plate run by other teams. There were certain teams that seemed that they liked to win, and those sometimes got special treatment. People may not like this, but it is true, and most of the people involved seemed to accept it thinking their time would come.

That said, with the new car, this is decreasing to a large degree as the leaway to fudge the numbers doesn't exist like it did with the older cars. With the older cars, the designs between them made a huge difference. you'd be stunned at what small changes in one area of the car body, or underneath, could make to the overall performance. Those who think these don't spend a lot of time in the windtunnel are sadly mistaken, and those that think these are low tech are also sadly mistaken. The amount of money and time we spent on shocks and carbs alone would make most people faint.

The racing itself is extremely difficult, and worlds away from what most experience in road racing. Driving on an oval takes a very different skill set, and it's easy to burn off the brakes if you try to attack it like a road course. The sustained speeds are typically a lot higher, and if you try dragging your brakes to set the nose, you're not gonna have any left by end of the race. Also, the aero is so different that you need to learn how the car reacts in traffic. There's not much in road racing to compare it too, and yes, while road racing probably takes a bit more skill, on an oval, you need multiple times bigger balls to head straight for a concrete wall at 180mph.

One other comment on Nascar. Just like most road racing, you have a big diversity of drivers, from the very, very good, to the ones that should be driving a computer game at home and not on the track. The biggest complaint I have is that you don't have to have any real training to go drive in Nascar. You do enough races, don't kill anyone, and pay the amount of money required and you too can go out and wreck someone at Bristol. But you'd never win. Like any other racing series, the best always rise to the top no matter how Nascar may skew the cars one way or the other.

Obviously NASCAR fans fail to see the set up of it all, as they are all tattooed white trash, and therefore incapable of rational thought

Finally a rational thought!!

Well I would definitly agree that NASCAR ie france family is extremely shady. If you haven't read Driving With The Devil I recommend it its about the pre 48 history of nascar and how bill france muscled his way in and took over. stock racing probably never would have been as succesful as it is with out bill france though and the gritty roots still exist. BTW what is this thread about?