What the hell is PAX? Do I have to enter it or can I stick with my class? When mom and dad autocrossed back in the day, you raced in your assigned class whether noob or veteran. Looking forward to my first dance with the cones tomorrow.
What the hell is PAX? Do I have to enter it or can I stick with my class? When mom and dad autocrossed back in the day, you raced in your assigned class whether noob or veteran. Looking forward to my first dance with the cones tomorrow.
In reply to lewbud:
PAX is a mathematical formula intended to "theoretically" equalize times beween classes. Enter your assigned class and your real times are compiled against your in-class competition. PAX is applied to give you some estimation on how you compare to everyone else regardless of class.
^^^ What he said. In theory PAX should be a measurement of driver skill regardless of whether they showed up in a car that falls into one of the top modified classes or one of the lowest stock classes. Its kind of a guestimate at best, but is a fun way to compete with friends who may have a totally different class car than you. For ease of explanation, lets say your car falls into a slow class with a PAX factor of .800. Your mullet sporting friend Cooter's slightly faster Camaro is in a higher/faster class that has a PAX factor of .875. You run a raw time through the course in a nice even 100 seconds. Your PAX adjusted time (100 X .800) is 80.0 seconds. Cooter runs a slightly faster 98 seconds and promptly begins mocking your "rice burner". But wait, you say. Cooter's PAX adjusted time (98 X .875) is 85.7. So, although Cooter is faster than you in raw time (as he should be, driving a faster car), you have a lower adjusted PAX time and are, theoretically at least, a faster driver. You therefore have the undisputed right for force Cooter to refer to you as "The Stig" until the next event. Congratulations.
That's about the best explanation I can give you.
Thanks oldsaw, the reason I'm confused is that there is a Novice PAX class and then the regular classes. Those in the Novice PAX aren't entered in their respective classes. At least not according to the DFW SCCA group.
Some regions think that novice competitors will be scared away if they run in their respective class and get beaten by 10 seconds by somebody who has been doing this for a while and has a car setup for the class. So they have a novice class either raw time or pax.
If you are new and don't care about the beating you might take then by all means sign up for your open class. If you only want to compete against other novice drivers then sign up for the novice class under whatever your respective pax class is.
as a fellow FNG, I so far appreciate the idea behind having a beginner class.
I don't like math, but I do like (on paper) the PAX system
My meotter has a couple of mods that aren't really all that helpful but bump it up classwise to the point that I'd need to be a badass driver to be competetive.
(as far as I can tell, figuring out what class your car is in looks like a goddamn nightmare)
kazoospec wrote: ^^^ What he said. In theory PAX should be a measurement of driver skill regardless of whether they showed up in a car **fully prepped** for one of the top modified classes or one of the lowest stock classes.
Fixed
If tomorrow is your first event; do yourself a huge favor and spend and hour watching this first.
Video Training: "Autocrossing with Dick Turner
You will then know as much or more than half the people there.
Good luck and have a great time!
I love PAX times because I usually beat my friends in miatas driving my Mustang. In raw times I can only get within a second or two on the short courses.
ProDarwin wrote:kazoospec wrote: ^^^ What he said. In theory PAX should be a measurement of driver skill regardless of whether they showed up in a car **fully prepped** for one of the top modified classes or one of the lowest stock classes.Fixed
Pretty much, PD.
IIRC, PAX is determined by times recorded at the National championship where fully-prepped cars are the norm, not the exception. The baseline numbers originate with the fastest class which, typically, is A-Mod.
Anyone who has seen A-Mods perform at the Nats cannot help but be amazed.
not just the national championships ... but many/most of the national tour events ... the man who maintains PAX assumes fully prepped cars in each class and national tour type lots ...
so PAX is really like a golf or bowling handicap, but not as accurate (assuming an underprepped car on a tiny regional lot)
as for running in a PAX'ed Novice class, what they do is take each of your base classes (the PAX associated with those classes) and that PAX number is multiplied times your raw time to give a way to compare all the different cars/classes into one large class
as you see your times get better (compare your times to others in the class you would be running) and eventually move on to the open class
SnowMongoose wrote: My meotter has a couple of mods that aren't really all that helpful but bump it up classwise to the point that I'd need to be a badass driver to be competetive. (as far as I can tell, figuring out what class your car is in looks like a goddamn nightmare)
From the viewpoint of taking a random modified car and making it compete somewhere, yeah, it sucks.
That said, its hard to form a limited number of cohesive classes that accomidate dispirate prep levels.
I am guessing you have braces on your car?
If I go to anything national level I am going to have a list of things to switch back on my meotter. (illegal leather option wheel on a base model car, intake support, sun visors, etc.. all for STS)
Apexcarver wrote: I am guessing you have braces on your car?
I have a set of FM rails and butterfly brace that are next on the list to install, but as far as I can tell by slogging through the rulebook, either my aftermarket seat (which still has me too high up to clear w/ helmet) or my aftermarket steering wheel (no airbag) bend me over pretty quick
Yeah, the braces kinda kill you.
The height thing only gets you for PDX or track stuff, autocross does not do anything to you there.
The no-airbag thing... Assuming that yours came with an airbag, minimum of SSM IIRC. (Got Turbo? good excuse to get one!)
I do think that the rules are obtuse in regards to bracing. By most accounts they are a performance penalty (weight) more than advantage due to chassis precision. (as long as your not using it to mount something)
Thanks for the info Apex.
My car came to me with the airbag light in the 'on' position, and none of my monkeying could get it to go out, but yes, technically at one point it had an airbag.
Aftermarket seat alone (regardless of my lankiness) doesn't effect classing?
Another excuse to go turbo you say?
SnowMongoose wrote: Thanks for the info Apex. My car came to me with the airbag light in the 'on' position, and none of my monkeying could get it to go out, but yes, technically at one point it had an airbag. Aftermarket seat alone (regardless of my lankiness) doesn't effect classing? Another excuse to go turbo you say?
Well, the seat puts you out of Stock... (it has to weigh more than 17 lbs or something with the brackets for ST (going off memory))
Did your car come with a Torsen? NA or NB? Any other mods?
You could remove the braces, reinstall a stock airbag and go into STS (or STR depending on your answer to the above questions)
Basically, springs/shocks/bars, exhaust, some ECU stuff is allowed, and a few other things in those classes. (no R-comp tires)
SSM... Turbo, full suspension build, big fat R-comps, and much much more. Difficult and expensive class, going to be difficult to be nationally competitive.
Lol, haven't even made it to any autocross yet, much less beginning to worry about being competitive anywhere.
I do like that re-installing the stock wheel would help with safety only so far as the center of it being oh-so-slightly less hard of a surface to smash my face into than my current setup (see previous note about airbag non-functionality)
95 R package + coilovers, sways, header, exhaust, seat/rails, rollbar, as-of-yet-uninstalled rails/butterfly brace.
Going aftermarket with the seat was a non-option for me, the top of the stock seat barely comes up to the middle of my neck, making my rollbar the defacto headrest...
I'm willing to do 'risky' things in and around my car, and try not to supply surplus risk to bystanders, but even I have to draw the line somewhere.
But yeah, she's got the torsen. (and the seat + rails, I'd wager they weigh more than 17 lbs)
yamaha wrote: Pax is the mythical scoring system that allows a 20+ year old civic a chance to win something......
that too.... though classing goes a long way towards making for some "even" competition ... I seldom even look at the PAX results from an event, just my own class results, and the overall results ....
lewbud wrote: Thanks oldsaw, the reason I'm confused is that there is a Novice PAX class and then the regular classes. Those in the Novice PAX aren't entered in their respective classes. At least not according to the DFW SCCA group.
you're correct ... this way you're being compared to the other Novices as opposed to being compared to the open class competitors ... and PAX is "supposed" to "even" you up compared to each other
go to the results page and look at the overall (some regions call it Raw results) and you'll see how you stack up compared to others that ran in the same class but in the open div.
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