Get your flu shot

Justjim75 said:

In reply to mtn :

You tell me? Show me any long term study of any one flu shot anywhere that proves it is safe

There are actually millions of data points on this... the millions of flu shots that people didn't die.

In science (specifically medicine), a lack of contrary data is considered a stack of confirmative data.

go do humanity and society a favor and isolate yourself from all other humans.  

Already done that but I appreciate your concern.

Justjim75 said:

Verifyable facts: Flu shots are a 4  BILLION dollar a year industry in the US alone, selling untested injections, usually produced in China (the folks that still get caught putting lead paint on kids toys), that are 50% effective due to being a 100% wild ass guess.  Flu virus' mutate rapidly and every time you get the shot, your body has less natural ability to defend itself in the event your Chinese maybe shot is wrong.  The are millions of strains of flu virus and the quadrivalent version supposedly protects against 4 of them.

Ummmmm, wow. Think I’m gonna let that one lie there. 

As someone missing a chunk of his immune system, big thanks to those of you willing to go to a ridiculously small and probably free inconvenience to help yourself and everyone around you.     
Some of the rest of y'all would get along great with my sasquatch hunting sandy hook denying boss.  

(The possibility that some of you fall into both camps is equal parts amusing and terrifying)

In reply to mtn :

I can't get autism if I die from influenza.

I got it twice. The first time I felt worse than any actual flu I’ve ever had. The second time left me almost comatose for three days. My doc said DO NOT get the shot again, EVER!  

But medical science says it’s harmless. And internet warriors tell me it’s all in my mind. Maybe I should het it again

My wife is required to get one every year because she works for a hospital group. In a billing department. Miles from the hospital itself. Anyway, every time she gets the shot she gets sick for several days.

I've never had one. I'm no anti-vaxxer but after 54 years I like to think my immune system works pretty well. I do get the occasional 'cold' but that's it.

I haven't gotten the shot for several years.

Last year, I got the flu. I was out of work for a week and a half. Luckily, I had enough vacation days to cover it, but I'd rather use them for... you know... actual vacation. 

I plan on getting the shot this season. 

Curtis said:

mtn said:

Wow, the first well reasoned argument against it.

Some points/counterpoints:

• I wouldn't include SARs in your comparison. There is no SARs vaccine - at least not that I've ever heard.
• "No hope of eliminating the flu with a vaccine"... well, someone probably said the same thing about smallpox at one point. Someone said the same about the 300mph barrier, probably.
• Pertussis, Rubella, Mumps,  Measles, Polio, Chicken Pox, HepB, Meningitis, along with others I'm sure, probably the pneumonia one, are all required at many school districts. You don't hear about them because it is a once every few years thing. 
• It is also doing "something" to help herd immunity. Even if you don't think it is enough, it is doing a little bit.

 

But... what is it hurting you by doing it? 

SARS... no vaccine yet, but imminent.  

"no hope of eliminating..."  at current effective rates, there is no hope.  At current effective rates, the flu vaccine is no more effective than blood-letting or leeches at providing group immunity for the flu.  Right now the flu vaccine is like throwing three darts at a dartboard... but the dartboard isn't numbered, and you're trying to get a score of 99.

I don't have a firm stance on mandatory vaccines, but citing that they are mandatory should not be considered evidence of their effectiveness or requisition.

herd immunity... negative.  Herd immunity by definition can't even be considered a term (as it pertains to vaccines) unless the vaccine is considered a bona fide prevention.  25% (or whatever the current year's cocktail ends up preventing) is not "effective," it's a "hail mary" for something that has extremely little chance of killing you in the first place.  Someone mentioned seat belts earlier.  Would you wear a seat belt if it had a 25% chance of protecting you and a 75% chance of causing serious injury?

re: "what is it hurting you..."  My point is that I don't know, so I won't take ineffective drugs that might end up in a class action suit later.  Now, if it was 99.99% effective like many other vaccines, I might consider it.  In fact, by the very definition of a vaccine, it isn't a vaccine.  But I grew up putting Mercurochrome on cuts.  My parents grew up with DDT.  My grandparents grew up with thalidymide babies and Opium for cough syrup.  All things that we discovered later were no bueno.

My question is not "what is it hurting me," it's "are the benefits worth the potential risks?"  Right now, the risks seem to be zero, but the benefits are incredibly low.  I just don't see the point.

You were making a good point until you said what I have bolded. 

Because the flu vaccine is only 25% likely to prevent getting the flu, doesn't mean there is a 75% it's going to cause serious injury. It means there is a 75% chance it won't prevent you from getting the flu. 

Those are DRASTICALLY different meanings. I get that you were talking about seat belts, but that was a poor analogy to compare them.

Never had the flu, hardly ever have a cold or other illness, still get the flu shot. My daughter wound up in the ER with tubes draining fluid from her lungs and lots of other nasty complications.  It was bad, a flu shot would have prevented it. (first year at college, on her own, skipped her flu shot)  Only one data point, but it was enough to convince me to keep getting one.   

Appleseed said:

In reply to mtn :

I can't get autism if I die from influenza.

not according to zombie movies.

In reply to Curtis :

"I didnt die" hardly means its safe.  Im still waiting on someone to show me a single long term study on any one of the numerous flu shots that have been injected into people.

In reply to Duke :

?? No rebuttal ??

In reply to z31maniac :

But can you or anyone else prove it cant harm you?

Justjim75 said:

In reply to Duke :

?? No rebuttal ??

What makes you think he owes you a rebuttal? It's not like there is anything, anyone could say that is going to change your mind. 

pinchvalve said:

Never had the flu, hardly ever have a cold or other illness, still get the flu shot. My daughter wound up in the ER with tubes draining fluid from her lungs and lots of other nasty complications.  It was bad, a flu shot would have prevented it. (first year at college, on her own, skipped her flu shot)  Only one data point, but it was enough to convince me to keep getting one.   

This is where the people who (a) don't have adverse reactions, (reactions like Dr. Boost, not the "I feel bad for 3 days but I'm still doing stuff"), and (b) don't get the flu shot regardless just confuse me. In the US, roughly 36,000 people die* and more than 200,000 are hospitalized every year because of influenza. The flu shot may or may not have the right strain, but if it is even 25% effective, and those who died and were hospitalized were able to get the flue shot, we'd be talking about 9,000 lives saved and 50,000 less hospitalizations. 

*Average based on data from 2010 through 2015. 2015-2018 are still estimates and haven't been properly verified yet; if we were to include said estimates, the average goes UP to 42,000.

I work in dialysis clinics with hundreds of people with everything from old age to HIV and Hepatitis, my wife is a public elementary school teacher, my son attends a public middle school.  We go to soccer tournaments with hundreds on men women and children from accross 3 states. None of us gets the flu shot.  None of us gets the flu.  I have a close friend who has permanent disabilities from being given the high dose flu shot for older people at a Walgreens by an $8 an hour pharmacy tech.  She was 54 at the time.

People just don't think statistically

In reply to mtn :

The part that gets me is the "Well I didn't get sick."

It's not for you, so much as it is for the immunosuppressed person getting your grubby $1 bills in change at the QuickyMart.  Or whatever.

In reply to z31maniac :

He quoted me, and made a comment.

In reply to mtn :

Your figures are false.  The number of people that die from the flu is far less than that, the statistic you refer to inudes people who have had the flu and died the same year, not necessarily dying FROM the flu

mtn said:

pinchvalve said:

Never had the flu, hardly ever have a cold or other illness, still get the flu shot. My daughter wound up in the ER with tubes draining fluid from her lungs and lots of other nasty complications.  It was bad, a flu shot would have prevented it. (first year at college, on her own, skipped her flu shot)  Only one data point, but it was enough to convince me to keep getting one.   

This is where the people who (a) don't have adverse reactions, (reactions like Dr. Boost, not the "I feel bad for 3 days but I'm still doing stuff"), and (b) don't get the flu shot regardless just confuse me. In the US, roughly 36,000 people die* and more than 200,000 are hospitalized every year because of influenza. The flu shot may or may not have the right strain, but if it is even 25% effective, and those who died and were hospitalized were able to get the flue shot, we'd be talking about 9,000 lives saved and 50,000 less hospitalizations. 

 

*Average based on data from 2010 through 2015. 2015-2018 are still estimates and haven't been properly verified yet; if we were to include said estimates, the average goes UP to 42,000.

Are you assuming that 100% of the 36,000 deaths, none of them got a flu shot?

Also, from what I've read, most all of the people listed with the flu, are never really verified to have the flu. They have flu-like symptoms and get diagnosed as having the flu, but nobody is taking their blood and verifying that they actually had/have the influenza virus or what strain it may be. So, I believe the numbers of folks who get and die from the flu are greatly exaggerated. It's similar to a guy who falls off a ladder doing some sort of prep for an incoming hurricane days before a storm of any type reaches him gets counted as a death from the hurricane.

All I have to say is,

Meh. 

Get it if you want. Or don't. I don't really care. 

Also, pay your cable bill and do your part to feed monopolistic mega-corporations, please.

Justjim75 said:

In reply to z31maniac :

He quoted me, and made a comment.

As I said, from the tone of your posts, no one could say anything to change your mind. So why keep posting? So you can continue to get more and more aggressive in your stance against the flu shot?