Good News: Microsoft to allow older computers to upgrade to Windows 11, bbbuuuuttttt....

...., if the computer is currently incompatible (no TPM 2.0 chip), it won't get SECURITY UPDATES!?!?

Which makes upgrading essentially pointless, since the primary reason most would upgrade is because Win 10 will no longer get security updates as of Oct of next year!  (Apparently you can still pay them yearly and get support for Win10?!?!)

Is this really going to happen, or is Microsoft playing a massive game of chicken here? 

With 60% of computers currently running Win 10, this of course could be a huge bonus for Microsoft and hardware manufactures, and of course a huge S-show when there are still millions of Win 10 boxes out there, and a serious security concern pops up!

You would also likely see a huge dropping of windows computers as people simply move to iPads, phones, and maybe even Macs.

Microsoft allows Windows 11 to be installed on older, unsupported hardware but specifically nixes official support

...in October 2025. As we speak, 61.82% of Windows users are on Windows 10, ...

...When installing on unsupported hardware, Microsoft will push a small disclaimer that effectively cancels your warranty in case of compatibility-related mishaps. Likewise, you won't be entitled to receiving updates - including security updates - so we're back to square one....

https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsoft-allows-windows-11-to-be-installed-on-older-unsupported-hardware-but-specifically-nixes-official-support-minimum-requirements-for-full-compatibility-remain-unchanged

I would actually prefer to get the Windows 11 security updates without the UI updates. A common pattern of the Win11 GUI is that they're hiding more options inside deeper sub-menus so that the interface "looks cleaner" but you need to click around more to get the same work done. It also seems to be more buggy than a lot of recent Windows releases.

It's also funny that no other OS requires TPM for security updates these days. There doesn't seem to be any good you can do with the TPM module IMO. One thing Windows uses TPM for is disk encryption - the disk encryption key is stored on the TPM module, which should act as a secure enclave, so the PC can boot up entirely without the user entering any key. Linux instead just requires the user to enter the key manually near the start of the boot sequence. That's a little inconvenient, but it means that Linux doesn't require TPM - and that it turns out to be more secure, because a way to recover the disk encryption key from the TPM module's communications has been discovered:

https://pulsesecurity.co.nz/articles/TPM-sniffing

I hate W11, I'd much rather stick with W10

Better news the new intel GPU seems to actually be good!!!  

I'm gonna be "that guy" with the Linux comment here.  I gave my very nontechnical sister an old laptop with Mint Linux loaded because I didn't want to mess around with finding her new Win hardware and then teaching her how to use it.  I don't do Windows anymore and I figured that her daughter would eventually solve the problem with a new computer.  And she did.  There's a shiny new mac desktop where the old windows box was.  And I stopped by tonight and found that my sister is mostly using the ten year old Linux laptop - she likes it better.  Huh.

I think we're to the point that Windows is no longer necessary for average users, and Linux is finally to the point of being usable by average users.  YMMV

Edit:  Forgot my point which is that Linux on old hardware avoids otherwise uneeded hardware upgrades.

In reply to jwagner (Forum Supporter) :

My only problem with Linux?  The person where I work knows enough to be dangerous and thinks they know enough.  It'll never happen here.  At home, I've never used it but I could figure it out and if I could do photo editing, web browsing, and a bit of video?  I'd be happy to switch.

I need to check both my PCs to see if I can just switch on the TPM 2.0 chip in the BIOS. I'll be pissed if both my 3 year old PCs need new motherboards already. Mainly because I used to build my own PCs and if I'm swapping the motherboard, there is no way I'm going to be able to resist upgrading a bunch of other stuff. Rebuilding a PC is "might as well" hell, especially with a MicroCenter nearby.

aircooled said:

You would also likely see a huge dropping of windows computers as people simply move to iPads, phones, and maybe even Macs.

 

This already happens.

To play devils advocate for a second though...

Based on some quick googling, it seems like iPads are only recieving around 5-6 years of security updates/support?

Win 11 requires "TPM 2.0, which became standard in new PCs in 2016".  So that means anything less than 8 years old (now, 9 years by Oct 2025) should support Win11?

TravisTheHuman said:

aircooled said:

You would also likely see a huge dropping of windows computers as people simply move to iPads, phones, and maybe even Macs.

 

This already happens.

 

To play devils advocate for a second though...

Based on some quick googling, it seems like iPads are only recieving around 5-6 years of security updates/support?

Win 11 requires "TPM 2.0, which became standard in new PCs in 2016".  So that means anything less than 8 years old (now, 9 years by Oct 2025) should support Win11?

I think there were cases where the PC had TPM 2.0, but the CPU was not on the supported list. My brother gave me an old Dell work laptop that IT let him keep from 2018 and it didn't have support Windows 11. I havent investigated it further though...I did look into my desktop from 2015/2016 and the mobo doesn't support TPM 2.0 grr. 

I think the issue most people have is the e-waste this requirement has put on...yeah I get the security issue, but unless you are gaming for doing hardware intensive tasks, IMO computing speed for the last 15 years or so hasn't been as rapid as it previously was so we are seeing longer hardware lifecycles. Seeing how many Windows 7 equipped computers can handle 10 and most daily tasks like email and web browsing just fine, might be the source of outrage. I know I have a few computers from that era that still work fine on 10 for basic use. 

I have a MS Surface. It's old, 2016, however it works great for what I do and I have really liked it from day 1. 
It isn't supported for 11, is it possible to have that run Linux? I really only use it for lite excel work and using the internet. 

In reply to NY Nick :

Yes, although it could be a lot more complicated than an ordinary PC:

https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface

Most of my computers run Linux and I use it for almost everything, office work, web browsing, photo and video editing, you name it...the only thing I use Windows for is gaming.

aircooled said:

You would also likely see a huge dropping of windows computers as people simply move to iPads, phones, and maybe even Macs.

My semi tech literate daughter is using a Chromebook now for everything, as is SWMBO, and my grandkids.  Linux use is up significantly but it's still only mid single digits.  I agree with gameboyRMH, the only thing you really need Windows for is gaming.  And tax software if you don't do that online.

In reply to jwagner (Forum Supporter) :

I'm pretty techy and my newest work computer is a dirt cheap Chromebook. I trucked it to a conference and it did everything I needed for work, plus the battery lasted all day. All for under $200. For homeschool stuff my kids also have cheap Chromebooks. I have no complaints with ChromeOS, it just does the job.

I've thought about Linux, but to be honest? I'm just too lazy to want to learn something I'm not familiar with. 

jwagner (Forum Supporter) said:

aircooled said:

You would also likely see a huge dropping of windows computers as people simply move to iPads, phones, and maybe even Macs.

My semi tech literate daughter is using a Chromebook now for everything, as is SWMBO, and my grandkids.  Linux use is up significantly but it's still only mid single digits.  I agree with gameboyRMH, the only thing you really need Windows for is gaming.  And tax software if you don't do that online.

It falls short for engineering tools also.

In reply to TravisTheHuman :

Not sure how much it helps but FreeCAD recently got out of beta.

In reply to jwagner (Forum Supporter) :

Even gaming, while being a helluva lot easier on Windows, is way better on Linux these days than it was even 5-10 years ago, largely due to the Steam Deck pushing developers to release Linux ports, although it was picking up momentum before that. A good fraction of new PC games now have Linux versions, and the Wine/Proton tools for running Windows games on Linux are getting better and better.

Yeah there are engineering tools on Linux, but if you want to be on the same page as other industry standards, its not the best.  For hobbyist stuff its ok.

Back to the original topic though, Win 10 came out in July 2015.  Its support ends Oct 2025.  Thats >10 years.  What's the problem?  Was this not expected?  

If you truly have hardware that old that you still regularly use for basic tasks, its probably easily replaced with a bargain bin PC.  A random google shows a 12th gen i3 12100F is ~40% faster multicore and 50% faster single core than a 6th Gen i7-6800k.  By oct 2025 you should be comparing to 15th gen at least.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Thanks for the info!

for the purposes of my stock portfolio please buy new surface devices to run windows 11...  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/clearwaterms/