In reply to mad_machine:
^Important question before I answer you. Are you black?
In reply to mad_machine:
^Important question before I answer you. Are you black?
In reply to yupididit:
I'm going to go with mostly pink.
what does race have to do with it? I may not be black (I am 1/4 Seneca) but I have lived in some pretty hellish "white trash" places that were almost as bad
mad_machine wrote: ...would you classify me as a taker? I grew up with a disabled father who could not work...
Not in my mind.
I view "entitled" folks as people who can work, but won't.
My parents bought the house I grew up in, in 1955, I think. The house was almost 30 years old at that point. It was in a neighborhood that was built in that same time period to have affordable housing close to the many factories that used to line the railroad tracks a couple blocks away, and before it was railroad tracks it was the Erie canal.
Talking to my siblings, all born in the 50's and seeing pictures/8mm film from back then, it was a nice clean neighborhood. I was born in 1979, and as a kid in the early 80's it was still a nice neighborhood. I felt safe playing in my neighborhood.
However, in the mid 80's most of the factories started to disappear, one by one. By the early nineties all of the factories were gone save for one, and it wasn't going to be there much longer. The workers had been out on strike for a couple years and there had been some violence. I don't remember exactly what year it shut down but the entire neighborhood took a dramatic turn for the worse.
A lot of the people who had lived there forever moved and the older people that stayed started to die off. The houses were sold and they became rental houses. Drugs and gangs moved in. Cars were broken into every night. Gangs from the north end would come up to our area called "the knob" and throw bricks through windows, damage vehicles and even set house fires. Of course the idiots from my neighborhood would retaliate the next weekend. It was a real E36 M3-hole. We were one of the last families that still owned a house on the entire block. For the most part we were left alone. I moved out as soon as I could, before I even finished high school as a matter of fact.
Dad got sick early in 1998. I moved back in to help Mom take care of him. He passed in October of that year. I stayed as long as I could stand it so Mom wouldn't be alone. But it was so bad at that point I had to get out. The thieves and crackheads had taken over. It was sickening.
Mom bought another house years ago and tried renting out the old house. After it got destroyed four times she has had it on the market for over three years. It appraised at $12,000. She hasn't had any offers. Since it's been on the market, it's been broken into four times. They punched holes in walls, ripped up carpet, ripped doors off of cabinets and so on. The insurance company finally canceled her policy. The last time they broke in they stole the freaking copper plumbing lines and all the HVAC stuff, without even turning off the water, the basement flooded, walls are ruined, floors ruined. It's bad. She doesn't have the money to fix it and I'm not sure what she's going to do with it. She is 83yo said she's turning it over to God and not worrying about it anymore.
I'm not sure what causes a neighborhood to go downhill like that. The people? The drugs? I have no clue. But what I do know is that I don't see any way for a neighborhood that is that bad to come back. I don't see the how the kids that are growing up there now have any chance if they stay there.
I don't know how this is relevant to the topic but every time something like this happens it reminds me of home.
Here's what I find interesting about this situation.
We have close to one million sworn officers in this country. We have a handful of incidents in a given year spread across thousands of miles. Odds are that 99.9999% of people in this country will not be killed by a police officer. Yet every time there is an incident, it's time for a national discussion, new laws, the President is involved, riots ensue, etc. People come to strong conclusions and demand "justice" before the facts are even out.
Yet every day across this country, people harm one another, and not a witness can be found. Nobody saw nothing. These same "brave" people who stand up to the police, protect the very people that do the most harm in their communities.
That's not to say that the police are always innocent. When they do something wrong, they should be held accountable. But they should be afforded the same rights as everyone else, and not be tried in the court of public opinion. I'm surprised we don't have more incidents. Police are people. There are good and bad, and they are fallable. They have a high stress job, and deal with some of the worst of our society on a daily basis. Every day, hundreds of thousands of officers show remarkable restraint. I don't think it's fair to judge them all by the few that fail.
What's to blame now?
Corruption. Where did that money go? Do you really think that it got spent on real, actual education of students in any way shape or form? I mean a way that wasn't a contract handed out to service providers? Or food service vendors. Or new sports "facilities" Or ... well just pockets?
This country is a giant berkeleysicle. Maybe it always was. Maybe it always will be. It is not the america you were taught about in 2nd grade.
Boost_Crazy:
People call America a prison state. Considering only ONE percent of the American population is in prison, that actually sounds phenominally good to me considering how many truly awful people there are in the world. I've always wondered if America simply has a better system for catching criminals than other countries.
This is what happens when people run out of real issues to deal with. Rampant nit-picking.
If these two stories are true then this will all have been for nothing, guy has an bad back and then try's to cause a second injury while in custody. And trying to double dip is very common around this area.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/28/did-freddie-gray-have-spinal-surgery-from-car-accident-a-week-before-his-arrest/
“Freddie Gray had a pre-existing spinal and neck injury [from a car accident] and had severe damage and scar tissue from an accident that Allstate insurance was paying via a large structured settlement.
Freddie had several unsuccessful spinal fusion surgeries, and his most recent spinal/cervical operation was a week and a half before he was arrested. Freddie should have been at home in bed resting and recovering from this recent major operation.
If you look on Howard County Civil Court records you will find a case whereby Freddie Gray Jr. was trying to cash in his monthly structured Allstate settlement into a lump sum payout through Peachtree funding”.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/30/report-freddie-gray-may-have-intentionally-tried-to-injure-self-in-police-van/
"The Post said the unidentified prisoner, who was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him, reportedly said he heard Gray “banging himself against the walls” and believed he “was intentionally trying to injure himself.
The prisoner’s statements were contained in an investigative document obtained by the paper, which said it was unclear if there was any additional information to support the theory."
FYI: I think Saturday will be a very interesting day in Baltimore.
Boost Crazy & HiTemp Guy,
It is not a case of nit-picking. Although the odds are pretty long that any one of us individually will be killed by a LEO, the odds of that happening are many times higher than the odds of us being killed by a terrorist attack (9 times more likely according to this). Why have we been told for 14 years to be scared of the terrorists and constantly told we must exchange our rights and freedoms in order to be protected from them if in fact we are 9 times more likely to be killed by a police officer?
We are a prison state, mostly due to the failed war on drugs.
We really aren't. It is fine that you believe so, but overall, I think the system works.
I'm also in Canada though, and I don't believe in freedom for all. Too many people are shiny happy people in this world, as shown by people stabbing fire hoses to put out the fires in their OWN community.
Donebrokeit wrote: If these two stories are true then this will all have been for nothing, guy has an bad back and then try's to cause a second injury while in custody. And trying to double dip is very common around this area. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/28/did-freddie-gray-have-spinal-surgery-from-car-accident-a-week-before-his-arrest/
The first story has been solidly disproven.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. I for one fully support the police and whatever so-called brutality they need to dish out in apprehending uncooperative criminals.
In reply to foxtrapper:
I, honestly, am not believeing a goddamn berkeleying thing anyone on either side is saying about any of this. Now while everyone goes back to burning E36 M3 in the street and looting beer, I'll be chilling in my yard with my fire going, sipping on my purchased brews.
Baltimore paid 5.7 million out in police brutality cases since 2011.
That's a tragedy in various ways.
This is a police state control problem. Not a race issue. It has the appearance of a race issue due to various factors. This is a conservative's worst nightmare. A police state run wild, trampling rights, imprisoning people without due process, corrupt, wasteful of funding, and unaccountable for any action taken. Isn't this the reasoning why some people say they keep weapons at home? To protect against just this kind of government action?
Xceler8x said---- "This is a police state control problem. Not a race issue."
I totally agree. Recently a white kid in Deland was fatally shot in the face during an early morning raid. He was in his underwear (obviously not armed) when they shot him. They found seven ounces of weed in his home. No national spotlight, hardly even made the news. Kid died for what would be legal in CA or WA.
The race-baiters are trying to make the riots a black vs. white thing----it's not. In my mind it's a law-enforcement over-reach issue, which affects all citizens, not just those of color. Our law enforcement agencies need to re-evaluate how they treat the public. Cameras on officers would seem to be a good start--- to protect them, and those they are supposed to "protect and serve".
Joe Gearin wrote: Our law enforcement agencies need to re-evaluate how they treat the public.
Agreed. But let us also agree that many people do not respect the law or the people whose duty it is to enforce it. I believe citizens should be taught and reminded to cooperate with police officers--to re-evaluate how they treat law enforcement.
MM, you may be one of the rare cases of our social welfare system working, and I'm glad that some of our tax dollars actually did something positive for someone. Also note that you had to get your E36 M3 together despite having the public assistance in order to better yourself. Anyone that wants to better themselves has to do it themselves, not look around for someone else to do it for them.
My friend grew up on the very wrong side of Chicago. When he was in his early 20's, he moved to Texas, where the jobs were at that time, went around to the drill rigs until he found a job, lived in his 73 Camaro under a bridge. Today he has an engineering degree from TAMU and makes around a million a year doing various consulting (US and international) and small businesses. He did that himself by not wanting to be a drug dealer in Chicago, like the rest of his neighborhood.
Here's an element that effects impoverished inner cities across the country that is not mentioned or dealt with enough. Kudos to the Washington Post writer to mention it. If you want to get lead out of the streets, get it out of the houses. My commentary on the issue of it, and how it compounds other social and civil issues within the areas it effects are below the link.
Lead Paint poisoning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/freddie-grays-life-a-study-in-the-sad-effects-of-lead-paint-on-poor-blacks/2015/04/29/0be898e6-eea8-11e4-8abc-d6aa3bad79dd_story.html
That's the biggest most easily corrected issue in the system of the poor inner cities across the country, but when/if addressed results won't show for 20-25 years, thus politicians don't address it as it won't assist them get re-elected or ascend to high office.
It leads to children that can't focus in school and aren't capable or comprehension or problem solving skills. It creates emotional mood swings that can lead to violent behavior. Which leads to not being employable, or rotating through low paying jobs resulting in only being able to afford run down dilapidated housing, likely with lead paint which continues the cycle for the next generation, which is being raised by parent(s) who have emotional issues from their own poisoning which lead to fractured relationships due to a lack of being able to effectively communicate, problem solve and comprehend others perspectives. The fact that they're not able to guide their own children isn't due to lack of effort or disregard, it's because they're victims of poisoning that left them unable to.
Sidenote: This also leads to the impression that the school system in affected areas is broken and not capable of teaching the children. You can't teach a mute how to sing and you can't teach the deaf to hear.
I'm not going to claim that eliminating lead paint will correct all issues within the area it effects, but it will allow for the development and growth of citizens within the areas to become problem solvers for those within their community, hopefully leading to growth of home grown leadership from within the community to provide guidance and hold office while continuing to better the community for those living within it.
1988RedT2 wrote:Joe Gearin wrote: Our law enforcement agencies need to re-evaluate how they treat the public.Agreed. But let us also agree that many people do not respect the law or the people whose duty it is to enforce it. I believe citizens should be taught and reminded to cooperate with police officers--to re-evaluate how they treat law enforcement.
There is much wrong with our police state. Various governments using the PoPo to raise tax money for a start. There are cities that get the majority of their tax base from traffic tickets. Add in the "civil forfeiture" disaster that has crept up in the past 10 years or so. The PoPo's primary job outside of tax collection seems to be filing insurance forms. Unless you actually solve the case for them and bring them to the bad guy holding your stuff, all you will get out of them is a report for an insurance form. The whole "war on drugs" disaster is another great money maker, and excuse to remove more of our liberties. Then the "war on terror." Yeah, 9x more likely to be killed by a cop than by a "terrorist" but we need to track private sales of firearms because "terrorists" might be able to "buy" a gun and, I dunno, do something with it and just one more law will certainly stop that. And I read somewhere that the US had more people killed by the PoPo in 1 month than the UK had in several decades. OK, population size is different, but still, that isn't right.
Unfortunately, I don't see a way out. Power corrupts and power never voluntarily gives it up. We just have to ride it out. We probably won't see an end/improvement, but our grandchildren might. Things are coming to a head. Read The Fourth Turning. Meanwhile, did you see the new Miata? And that FRS/BRZ looks really cool, although they are said to be a tad slow. Maybe I should just get a well done GT40 replica? I bet a good one will be at least as good as the Ford GT.
Dr. Hess wrote: Things are coming to a head. Read The Fourth Turning. Meanwhile, did you see the new Miata? And that FRS/BRZ looks really cool, although they are said to be a tad slow. Maybe I should just get a well done GT40 replica? I bet a good one will be at least as good as the Ford GT.
Agree on the 4th Turning, but if you drove your GT40 replica past my house and rolled through the stop sign, just know that I may point a loaded pistol at you. It's for the children.
1988RedT2 wrote: I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. I for one fully support the police and whatever so-called brutality they need to dish out in apprehending uncooperative criminals.
Yea, I was going to say if you don't fight the police, the chances of dying go way down. Not to zero, but way down.
And does anybody think the quality of police officers is going to go up after all this crap???
In reply to T.J.:
Boost Crazy & HiTemp Guy, It is not a case of nit-picking. Although the odds are pretty long that any one of us individually w ill be killed by a LEO, the odds of that happening are many times higher than the odds of us being killed by a terrorist attack (9 times more likely according to this). Why have we been told for 14 years to be scared of the terrorists and constantly told we must exchange our rights and freedoms in order to be protected from them if in fact we are 9 times more likely to be killed by a police officer? We are a prison state, mostly due to the failed war on drugs.
The big difference is that however unlikely, terrorists want to kill us, and are willing to end their own lives to do so. I don't believe that even the worst cops want to kill random people, and I don't think any would give up their life to do so. Bad decisions and mistakes are very different from premeditated attacks.
Boost_Crazy wrote: In reply to T.J.:Boost Crazy & HiTemp Guy, It is not a case of nit-picking. Although the odds are pretty long that any one of us individually w ill be killed by a LEO, the odds of that happening are many times higher than the odds of us being killed by a terrorist attack (9 times more likely according to this). Why have we been told for 14 years to be scared of the terrorists and constantly told we must exchange our rights and freedoms in order to be protected from them if in fact we are 9 times more likely to be killed by a police officer? We are a prison state, mostly due to the failed war on drugs.The big difference is that however unlikely, terrorists want to kill us, and are willing to end their own lives to do so. I don't believe that even the worst cops want to kill random people, and I don't think any would give up their life to do so. Bad decisions and mistakes are very different from premeditated attacks.
Possibly, but does intent really matter if you still end up dead?
z31maniac wrote: Possibly, but does intent really matter if you still end up dead?
Well if we want to turn this into an existential debate, NOTHING matters when you are dead. If that is how the world operated on basing policies and law, it would be a much different place.
So yea, accidentally killing somebody is significantly different than meaning to kill someone. The law is PRETTY clear about that one dude.
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