Grammer help

Grammer never was a strong point for me, I crashed and burned my way through it. Now my 5th grade son is really pushing me up against my limits.

Any good web type suggestions are very welcome.

Here's some of my questions that I can't quite figure out.

"He runs fast". Runs is the verb, and fast is the adverb, right?

"He's fast". What's fast now? Is it still an adverb, with a verb implied? Or did it become a verb?

"He's a fast runner". Runner is noun (I think), so fast is now an adjective?

I am a product of "whole language" and never really had to parse sentences as above. But, in the second sentence, the verb is "is" (to be) -- but it is a contraction on the pronoun (he is, he's).

My guesses:

"He runs fast". Runs is the verb, and fast is the adverb, right?

That sounds correct

"He's fast". What's fast now? Is it still an adverb, with a verb implied? Or did it become a verb?

Fast is an adverb, modifying the verb "is" (in contracted form)

"He's a fast runner". Runner is noun (I think), so fast is now an adjective?

"a fast runner" is a prepositional phrase, or adverbial phrase, modifying the verb "is".

^^ +1

http://tecfa.unige.ch/staf/staf-e/sun/staf15/egrammer.html (Yes, I know I just linked to a site in China to discuss English Grammar.)
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/what-are-the-degrees-of-comparison-in-english-grammar.html

I use this site from time to time:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

Not much help with grammar per se, but it at least helps pin down the meaning of a word and identifies the part of speech, i.e. noun, verb, etc.

Oh, and yes, it's spelled "g-r-a-m-m-A-r".

and here I came in this thread thinking it would be about this guy:

In reply to mad_machine:

What guy? All I see is a hot blonde!

bludroptop wrote: My guesses: "He runs fast". Runs is the verb, and fast is the adverb, right? That sounds correct "He's fast". What's fast now? Is it still an adverb, with a verb implied? Or did it become a verb? Fast is an adverb, modifying the verb "is" (in contracted form) "He's a fast runner". Runner is noun (I think), so fast is now an adjective? "a fast runner" is a prepositional phrase, or adverbial phrase, modifying the verb "is"."a fast runner" is not a propositional phrase. "runner" is a noun, "fast" is an adjectuve.

mad_machine wrote: and here I came in this thread thinking it would be about this guy:

Sideshow Bob?

I would think in the second two examples, you could build a pretty strong argument that "fast" is an adjective, honestly.

At least that was my gut feeling.

If you're using "fast" as an adverb for the verb "is," you're kind of saying that somebody can "be*" fast. (As in... "be" in the existential usage. "To be, or not to be.")

If you were to say "He's tall," "tall" would clearly be an adjective. Sentence structure would remain the same no matter what you put at the end as long as the sentence stays that simple.

Now that I've applied some WD40 to my rusty grammar, "fast" is a multi-use word.

Fast as an adjective: He is fast.

Fast as an adverb: He runs fast.

Fast as a verb: He will fast for Lent.

Fast as a noun: He survived the Lenten fast.

Oh dear god, I'm never going to graduate from elementary school with my son.

RMD - to be a grammar nazi, "fast," as in quick or quickly is a different word than "fast," as in "to not eat," or a period of not eating. It can also be a gerund in its "fasting" form.

For the first poster, there is only one book that is necessary to read to learn proper English grammar.

bastomatic wrote: RMD - to be a grammar nazi, "fast," as in quick or quickly is a different word than "fast," as in "to not eat," or a period of not eating. It can also be a gerund in its "fasting" form. For the first poster, there is only one book that is necessary to read to learn proper English grammar.

But it's also the only common way that "Fast" is used as a noun.

MAKE FAST THE MAIN LINE, YE LANDLUBBERS

This is also a great website:

Hypergrammar

My grammer's a right fine old bird, Eh?

Foxtrapper, first: don't sweat this. It WILL be OK. Seriously. You probably already have all the grammar knowledge you'll ever need, you just have to know how to talk about it.

Second, your problem with "fast" is that it looks the same as an adjective (describing a thing, as in "fast Miata") and an adverb (describing an action, as in "she learns fast.")

Suppose we went back to your examples and used a word that helpfully changes its form depending on what job it's doing.

"He runs quickly." Yup, "quickly" is an adverb describing the verb "runs." (Lots of adverbs are nice enough to end in "–ly" so we can spot them.) You can say a lot of things to describe the running – quickly, uphill, away from the cops, our old friend "fast" – but all of them describe the verb. We still don't know anything about this guy "he."

"He's quick." OK, now we're talking about the guy, not the action, so "quick" is an adjective describing the person "he." Taken by itself, this sentence doesn't tell us anything about what the guy is doing. He could be quick at running, math, dumping girlfriends, or cleaning out your fridge. There aren't any verbs (besides the shortened form of "is") to let us know.

"He's a quick runner." "Quick" the adjective is back, describing the person "runner." What kind of runner is he? Fast. He could also be slow, sneaky, or experienced; those would all be adjectives too.

Summary: A noun is a person, a place, or a thing (such as Tim, Florida, or shoulder.) Adjectives describe (the Grammar Word is "modify") nouns. A verb is an action word (such as run or explode). Adverbs modify verbs.

(If you need to modify an adjective, that's another place for an adverb, as in "My sandwich was slightly stale," but never mind that now.)

I've got heaps of this stuff, so keep asking!

Here's some of my questions that I can't quite figure out.

"He runs fast". Runs is the verb, and fast is the adverb, right?

Correct. "Fast" is acting as an adverb.

"He's fast". What's fast now? Is it still an adverb, with a verb implied? Or did it become a verb?

He is. "Fast" is now an adjective describing "he". Much like "My car is white," or "I am sad."

"He's a fast runner". Runner is noun (I think), so fast is now an adjective?

"Runner" is a noun. "Fast" is now an adjective that modifies "runner", not "He".

This makes my head hurt. Never could grasp grammer as there are just too many variables. As I told my frustrated Korean wife when she was learning english, I got a B in high school grammer and a C in college grammer and still don't understand it but I can tell if a sentence is written correctly or not. Just don't know why it's wrong. I think it came from reading a lot when I was younger. You just get used to seeing writing a certain way that when it isn't that way you know it's wrong. And to think my previous position was as a Tech Writer/Editor, I was promoted out of it. Now I read contracts and Statements of Work a lot.

I took two grammar classes in college (English major, and transferred schools). In one of them, we talked a lot more about Modifiers than adjectives or adverbs. A modifier is a word or phrase that provides additional information about another word or phrase. So, that includes adjectives, adverbs, and articles ("the", "a", "some", etc.).

If the word or phrase being modified is a noun or pronoun, than you have an adjective or article.

If the word or phrase being modified is a verb, adjective, or adverb, than the modifying word/phrase is an adverb.

If you're wondering what I mean about phrases acting as adjectives take this example: "The car with a busted headlight ran the stop sign." "...with a busted headlight..." tells you about "the car", so the whole phrase is acting as an adjective.

Mostly this stuff is superfluous if you don't need to know why it's wrong, or to help you know where you're supposed to put commas. But no one really notices if commas are in the wrong place. I suppose it could be important for writing legal documents where you want to be sure there is no ambiguity.

In addition to Strunk & White, also get a copy of Eats Shoots and Leaves, which does a really great job of explaining grammar in layman's terms.

wlkelley3 wrote: This makes my head hurt. Never could grasp grammer as there are just too many variables. As I told my frustrated Korean wife when she was learning english, I got a B in high school grammer and a C in college grammer and still don't understand it but I can tell if a sentence is written correctly or not. Just don't know why it's wrong. I think it came from reading a lot when I was younger. You just get used to seeing writing a certain way that when it isn't that way you know it's wrong. And to think my previous position was as a Tech Writer/Editor, I was promoted out of it. Now I read contracts and Statements of Work a lot.

not to be "that guy", but "grammar" is spelled with an "a"..

it is one of those funny looking and sounding words that just doesn't seem "right" no matter how you do it..

I'm not too worried about myself and my very limited grammar understanding. It's my 10 year old son that concerns me.

He's struggling a bit with the stuff, and I'm really struggling, trying to help him. Whew, I knew this was coming, but running up against it is a bit harsh and humbling.

I can follow math just fine. I can read music. There are rules and conventions and they are applied consistently, no matter how complex the math or music. The vagueness and loopiness of english grammar though, and the 999 exceptions to each rule, just blows my mind. And unfortunately, blows my sons (son's? sons'?) a good bit as well.

In reply to novaderrik: That's what I mean. Too many exceptions to the rule. I wondered about that when I typed that but spellcheck has spoiled me. It seemed right when I typed it. Oh well. What are the odds of getting spellcheck added to this? I know ALL of us need it sometimes.