woo white van, 
Really I just use some of the polk audio sets from fry's electronics, if you have a brick and mortar nearby you can get a pair for upfront for about 70, and a good center for 100, pair with a sub and some bookshelf for the surrounds and you can do decent, the sub is what would push you over your limit.
mtn wrote:jrw1621 wrote: I fell into a great deal. There was this guy...he approached me in a parking lot and in his van he had a second set of speakers. The place he bought them from loaded two pairs by accident. I paid less then half of what he paid for one. At $400 they were a bargain. He showed me an invoice for $1,000 for a pair.Sounds shady to me...
It is shady. Of course, I was kidding. This tactic was a popular scam in the 80's, 90's. The reality was they were just really crappy speakers in nice cabinets which were sold through "street vendor" con artists.
Wiki says the modern version of the scam has moved to craigslist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam
DrBoost wrote: Pick up a set of used Magnepans from eBay. They are big, ugly and need a sub but sound like secks. The only downsides, they are huge and they are the epitome of "garbage in, garbage out." I had a pair and was in love. Then I upgraded all my interconnects and speaker cable. The difference was AMAZING!! Then I upgraded my hardware and the difference was AMAZING yet again. After a pair of electrostatics it's hard to go back to anything else.
The amp alone needed to properly drive those things will screw his budget in a large way.
But here's your serious advice:
I wouldn't worry about the center right now. The mains are more important, and you can always run a "phantom center" if your AVR has that capability in the meantime.
On the new market, head over to newegg and look at the Polk Monitor 60s and 70s. They're one of the best bargains on the new market right now.
If you're looking used, Polk still offers a ton of bang for the buck. Your ears may differ from mine, but i find most of the Klipsch, Infinity, and Cerwin Vega in particular to be good at one thing within your budget: PLAY REALLY LOUD. And that's about it. They're harsh, boomy, muddy down low, etc etc etc. I'm not saying that they don't make good speakers, because they do, but you'll be hard pressed to find their good speakers on your budget.
You may be able to find a pair of Klipsch KG5.5 or KG3.5, and they're good speakers.
Vintage Polks are a great bang for buck. Monitor 7s or Monitor 10s will fit the bill.
Other brands to look at: DCM (someone already mentioned them, i think. Only the TimeFrame or TimeWindow speakers are worth looking at. The later more traditional-looking speakers are worthless other than being in a garage.
Mirage. Canadian company, so you may not see much of it around, but they're a great speaker, and most people in the US don't know about them, so they sell them for cheap.
Paradigm. Yes, you CAN find Paradigms on the cheap. The older Monitor 7se MKiis, 9se MKiis, etc etc etc. You could easily find a pair of Monitor 7s for $150 or less if you're patient, and the entry level Paradigm centers are cheap as well.
Paradigm would be my vote.
Out of curiousity, what AVR/Reciever do you have? Nothing makes mediocre speakers sound great like a decent preamp/amp. AVRs typically have pretty E36 M3ty amp stages.
93celicaGT2 wrote: Out of curiousity, what AVR/Reciever do you have? Nothing makes mediocre speakers sound great like a decent preamp/amp. AVRs typically have pretty E36 M3ty amp stages.
I got a Yamaha home-theater-in-a-box like I hotlinked earlier. The receiver looks exactly the same, but the speakers look slightly different.
When I got it, I had the following requirements for my purchase:
- 2 optical inputs
- 5.1 audio home theater in a box
- cheap price
It replaced a shelf system that was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. I wouldn't be surprised if the speakers on that shelf system without a sub were actually better than the new ones with the sub.
scardeal wrote:93celicaGT2 wrote: Out of curiousity, what AVR/Reciever do you have? Nothing makes mediocre speakers sound great like a decent preamp/amp. AVRs typically have pretty E36 M3ty amp stages.I got a Yamaha home-theater-in-a-box like I hotlinked earlier. The receiver looks exactly the same, but the speakers look slightly different. When I got it, I had the following requirements for my purchase: - 2 optical inputs - 5.1 audio home theater in a box - cheap price It replaced a shelf system that was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. I wouldn't be surprised if the speakers on that shelf system without a sub were actually better than the new ones with the sub.
Unless you want to go farther down the rabbit hole, you'll probably want to hold out for some Klipsch speakers like what was shown earlier. They have a higher sensitivity rating than most, so they're easy to drive. Your receiver will likely be incapable of driving anything else decently, unfortunately, and i'm sure it won't have pre-outs to add an external amp.
Unless you can get your hands on more power, the Magnepans are out, Paradigms are out, Mirage are out, Polk is out, Infinity is out.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ele/1906693165.html
http://annarbor.craigslist.org/ele/1913643556.html
Either of those should be a good bet.
93celicaGT2 wrote: Unless you can get your hands on more power, the Magnepans are out, Paradigms are out, Mirage are out, Polk is out, Infinity is out.
Since I'm new to the audio world... please educate me in my ignorance.
I'm not planning on listening to music and movies very loud, I just want it to sound better. As it is, the volume on the knob goes from -50 db to +50 db. The highest I'll usually run it is -10db, and that's if the volume is kind of low on a movie or recording.
Given the above, I feel like my receiver has plenty of headroom to drive a bigger, better speaker at the volumes I actually use.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just want to know why I would need a stronger amp for those speakers.
The current plan is to look at thrift stores for a "diamond in the rough" or hit up craigslist.
93celicaGT2 wrote: But here's your serious advice: On the new market, head over to newegg and look at the Polk Monitor 60s and 70s. They're one of the best bargains on the new market right now.
excellent beginner's advice. Newegg periodically has them on sale, too, so watch Slickdeals for notice.
Klipsch is kind of harsh to a newbie in hi-fi, imo. Stick with Polk or with a quality monkey-coffin 3-way. If the Polk doesn't seem 'meaty' enough at first glance, check these out:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=303-422
93celicaGT2 wrote: http://annarbor.craigslist.org/ele/1913643556.html Either of those should be a good bet.
I have these. They might be a little overpriced, but for the money you will be hard-pressed to find a better floor standing speaker. Especially when you consider that they can be run on nearly no power.
scardeal wrote:93celicaGT2 wrote: Unless you can get your hands on more power, the Magnepans are out, Paradigms are out, Mirage are out, Polk is out, Infinity is out.Since I'm new to the audio world... please educate me in my ignorance. I'm not planning on listening to music and movies very loud, I just want it to sound better. As it is, the volume on the knob goes from -50 db to +50 db. The highest I'll usually run it is -10db, and that's if the volume is kind of low on a movie or recording. Given the above, I feel like my receiver has plenty of headroom to drive a bigger, better speaker at the volumes I actually use. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just want to know why I would need a stronger amp for those speakers. The current plan is to look at thrift stores for a "diamond in the rough" or hit up craigslist.
The brands listed typically are "hard to drive." As in, multiple drivers, stiff drivers, low OHM ratings, low sensitivity.
Basically, they need some power to sound good. At ANY level. You'll run the risk of frying your AVR, blowing speakers due to distortion from your AVR working too hard, etc etc etc.
Volume doesn't blow speakers. Dirty power does. Think of it as "detonation." If you don't have enough octane, disastrous things happen, or you ramp back your timing for decreased performance.
Same rule applies.
The Magnepans are the worst offenders of the bunch. Speaking Solid State amps, unless you're rocking a HEALTHY 200 watts per channel (and i'm not talking AVR "watts."), they're worthless to you.
Quite honestly, while your AVR may not be terrible, i can assure that it's not capable of driving any of those.
Thift stores are a great option for you. 
Let me step back for a minute, and try to list out what's important in a good speaker construction rather than specific makes/models, and let me know if I'm on the right track.
When it comes to the speaker itself (as opposed to the enclosure), I feel pretty clueless what makes it better or worse.
PS if a good receiver (brands? models?) turns up, I might get one of those too.
Yes, used is the way to go.
I have Klipsch and Bose in my house, they are not interchangeable (I like Bose a little better) but you can't go wrong with either.
bigger is not always better, if you have separate sub woofer then you can get the Crispest, cleanest sounding used speakers that you can find in your price range.
I am sure all of this has previously been stated.
scardeal wrote: PS if a good receiver (brands? models?) turns up, I might get one of those too.
What model is your Yamaha?
Rotel, Marantz, Sony ES (make sure its the ES line), Pioneer Elite (make sure its the Elite), McIntosh if you win the lottery, Nakamichi, the high-end Denons, the high-end Yamaha's...
Mmmmm Denon.... IIRC- Marantz are mostly Denon guts now, aren't they? I seem to remember the Denon 3808ci and the Marantz SR8001 being the same. I could be way off base though.
BTW, my receiver is a Yamaha HTR-5730 The package was YHT-150
100Wx5... no more specific info on power.
mndsm wrote: Mmmmm Denon.... IIRC- Marantz are mostly Denon guts now, aren't they? I seem to remember the Denon 3808ci and the Marantz SR8001 being the same. I could be way off base though.
I thought it was the other way around... Same parent company though. I always considered Marantz a little higher quality. I have both though.
scardeal wrote: Let me step back for a minute, and try to list out what's important in a good speaker construction rather than specific makes/models, and let me know if I'm on the right track. 1. MDF enclosure, thicker the better 2. 3 way at a minimum: tweeter, midrange, and woofer? 3. Internal bracing; it should have a "roll cage" so to speak. 4. Ported vs. Not ported? When it comes to the speaker itself (as opposed to the enclosure), I feel pretty clueless what makes it better or worse. PS if a good receiver (brands? models?) turns up, I might get one of those too.
Strangely, none of those except for bracing should really be a concern.
Ported vs. not ported is simply "different." Neither is better than the other.
3-way minimum? Do you want simple or complicated? I run 2-way Paradigms in my 2-channel rig, and i don't feel a need to go to 3-way or higher. The manufacturer has done the legwork for you. If it's a 2-way, it's that way for a reason. On a purely budget-level, cheap 3-ways are usually cheap because they use E36 M3ty components. Just food for thought. Nothing inherently sounds better for the simple reason that there's more crossovers. Also: the "way" is not simply how many drivers there are.
The enclosure could be a concern, but again, as long as you aren't buying utter CRAP, it's not anything to worry about. Knock on the side of the cabinet with your knuckles. Does it sound solid and not hollow? If so, it's an adequate enclosure.
As for receivers? I'm honestly not a believer in them. At all. If you must get a receiver (and you may have to, due to budget constraints) look at Harmon Kardon, Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo. You should be able to find a model a couple years old of any of those companies in nice shape that would be decently powerful. Just keep in mind that NONE of them (possible exception of HK) will truly put out the power that they're "rated" at.
If you can live with a 2-channel setup, just big front left and right speakers (and i'm sure you can), then i'd start looking at maybe picking up an Adcom GTP-400 preamp (usually less than $100) and whatever Adcom amp you can get your hands on. (GFA-5200/5300s can be found for $150 or less.) That combo will power pretty much anything until you get into the real big boy speakers, and will sound a HELL of a lot better than a cheap receiver.
mtn wrote:scardeal wrote: PS if a good receiver (brands? models?) turns up, I might get one of those too.What model is your Yamaha? Rotel, Marantz, Sony ES (make sure its the ES line), Pioneer Elite (make sure its the Elite), McIntosh if you win the lottery, Nakamichi, the high-end Denons, the high-end Yamaha's...
The Pioneer Elite name is interesting. Often, the Elite just has more bells and whistles, but the same basic amplification stage as the "normal" line, and doesn't SOUND any better. I had a VSX-D850S that i sold a couple months ago for $50, and it was a great receiver. Plenty of power, plenty of options. The only thing it was lacking was HDMI, and i really don't care about that. I have 4 HDMI inputs on my TV, so i just used those, and used the reciever for audio only.
scardeal wrote: BTW, my receiver is a Yamaha HTR-5730 The package was YHT-150 100Wx5... no more specific info on power.
It's probably more like 20wpc all channels driven. It MAY put out 100wpc distorting like crazy with only the front L/R channels driven.
I'll look up more on it later to see if i'm mistaken. 
93celicaGT2 wrote:mtn wrote:The Pioneer Elite name is interesting. Often, the Elite just has more bells and whistles, but the same basic amplification stage as the "normal" line, and doesn't SOUND any better. I had a VSX-D850S that i sold a couple months ago for $50, and it was a great receiver. Plenty of power, plenty of options. The only thing it was lacking was HDMI, and i really don't care about that. I have 4 HDMI inputs on my TV, so i just used those, and used the reciever for audio only.scardeal wrote: PS if a good receiver (brands? models?) turns up, I might get one of those too.What model is your Yamaha? Rotel, Marantz, Sony ES (make sure its the ES line), Pioneer Elite (make sure its the Elite), McIntosh if you win the lottery, Nakamichi, the high-end Denons, the high-end Yamaha's...
We have an older Pioneer Elite DVD player in my basement. We A-B'd it with another non-elite Pioneer, and I could tell a significant difference. Not sure about anything else though.
3-way minimum? Do you want simple or complicated? I run 2-way Paradigms in my 2-channel rig, and i don't feel a need to go to 3-way or higher. The manufacturer has done the legwork for you. If it's a 2-way, it's that way for a reason. On a purely budget-level, cheap 3-ways are usually cheap because they use E36 M3ty components. Just food for thought. Nothing inherently sounds better for the simple reason that there's more crossovers. Also: the "way" is not simply how many drivers there are.
My understanding was that tweeters handled higher frequency noises best, mid-ranges handled medium frequencies best and woofers handled lower frequencies best. (And subwoofers were for the low end of the lower frequencies.) I know that a larger object tends to naturally vibrate at a lower frequency than a smaller object, so it would make sense that speakers of different sizes would best handle certain frequency ranges better than other sizes. Is this inaccurate?
The enclosure could be a concern, but again, as long as you aren't buying utter CRAP, it's not anything to worry about. Knock on the side of the cabinet with your knuckles. Does it sound solid and not hollow? If so, it's an adequate enclosure.
Thanks for the rule of thumb.
As for receivers? I'm honestly not a believer in them. At all. If you must get a receiver (and you may have to, due to budget constraints) look at Harmon Kardon, Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo. You should be able to find a model a couple years old of any of those companies in nice shape that would be decently powerful. Just keep in mind that NONE of them (possible exception of HK) will truly put out the power that they're "rated" at. If you can live with a 2-channel setup, just big front left and right speakers (and i'm sure you can), then i'd start looking at maybe picking up an Adcom GTP-400 preamp (usually less than $100) and whatever Adcom amp you can get your hands on. (GFA-5200/5300s can be found for $150 or less.) That combo will power pretty much anything until you get into the real big boy speakers, and will sound a HELL of a lot better than a cheap receiver.
Here's where I'm a little confused. I need to switch between two audio sources, both of which output a digital signal which needs to be decoded from Dolby Digital or Stereo. Isn't that exactly what a receiver does?
mtn wrote:93celicaGT2 wrote:We have an older Pioneer Elite DVD player in my basement. We A-B'd it with another non-elite Pioneer, and I could tell a significant difference. Not sure about anything else though.mtn wrote:The Pioneer Elite name is interesting. Often, the Elite just has more bells and whistles, but the same basic amplification stage as the "normal" line, and doesn't SOUND any better. I had a VSX-D850S that i sold a couple months ago for $50, and it was a great receiver. Plenty of power, plenty of options. The only thing it was lacking was HDMI, and i really don't care about that. I have 4 HDMI inputs on my TV, so i just used those, and used the reciever for audio only.scardeal wrote: PS if a good receiver (brands? models?) turns up, I might get one of those too.What model is your Yamaha? Rotel, Marantz, Sony ES (make sure its the ES line), Pioneer Elite (make sure its the Elite), McIntosh if you win the lottery, Nakamichi, the high-end Denons, the high-end Yamaha's...
Yeah, that's a bit different, there's no amps in a DVD player.
That said... Demo a Pioneer Elite DV-50A DVD player against a Pioneer DV-563.
They're the exact same unit. Down to the screws. Just one is silver-faced and says "Elite" on it.
Scardeal: I have a spare Adcom GTP-400 that has some minor ground contact issues on the right channel RCA output. If you're handy with a soldering iron, you should be able to fix it quickly, and for free. It's a nice entry-level 2-channel preamp. It does NOT handle video at all, and does not have subwoofer outputs. (Though i can tell you how to run a sub on it.)
Yours for shipping if you want it. That way you'd have some wiggle room for an amp if you wanted some real power. Or put the money towards some decent cables.
http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/38125/harman-kardon-avr1600-7.1channel-av-receiver-klipsch-hd-300-compact-5.1-high-definition-theater-system
About double your budget but seems to be a good deal.
I have a somewhat related question. I want to get some speakers to run from my computer. 5.1 surround capability on my motherboard so I would like some speakers that plug directly into that. What would be good systems to look at?
scardeal wrote:3-way minimum? Do you want simple or complicated? I run 2-way Paradigms in my 2-channel rig, and i don't feel a need to go to 3-way or higher. The manufacturer has done the legwork for you. If it's a 2-way, it's that way for a reason. On a purely budget-level, cheap 3-ways are usually cheap because they use E36 M3ty components. Just food for thought. Nothing inherently sounds better for the simple reason that there's more crossovers. Also: the "way" is not simply how many drivers there are.My understanding was that tweeters handled higher frequency noises best, mid-ranges handled medium frequencies best and woofers handled lower frequencies best. (And subwoofers were for the low end of the lower frequencies.) I know that a larger object tends to naturally vibrate at a lower frequency than a smaller object, so it would make sense that speakers of different sizes would best handle certain frequency ranges better than other sizes. Is this inaccurate?The enclosure could be a concern, but again, as long as you aren't buying utter CRAP, it's not anything to worry about. Knock on the side of the cabinet with your knuckles. Does it sound solid and not hollow? If so, it's an adequate enclosure.Thanks for the rule of thumb.As for receivers? I'm honestly not a believer in them. At all. If you must get a receiver (and you may have to, due to budget constraints) look at Harmon Kardon, Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo. You should be able to find a model a couple years old of any of those companies in nice shape that would be decently powerful. Just keep in mind that NONE of them (possible exception of HK) will truly put out the power that they're "rated" at. If you can live with a 2-channel setup, just big front left and right speakers (and i'm sure you can), then i'd start looking at maybe picking up an Adcom GTP-400 preamp (usually less than $100) and whatever Adcom amp you can get your hands on. (GFA-5200/5300s can be found for $150 or less.) That combo will power pretty much anything until you get into the real big boy speakers, and will sound a HELL of a lot better than a cheap receiver.Here's where I'm a little confused. I need to switch between two audio sources, both of which output a digital signal which needs to be decoded from Dolby Digital or Stereo. Isn't that exactly what a receiver does?
1) Nope, that's an accurate statement. But it's not that simple. All drivers are not created equal. All enclosures are not created equal, and all crossovers are not created equal. The more crossovers needed for a speaker, the more money it SHOULD take to construct if you're keeping the same quality. CHEAP 3-way speakers are usually just that. Cheap.
I wouldn't just go shopping for a 2-way, or a 3-way speaker. Go shopping for what sounds good to your ears. You'll go nuts buying equipment based on what you see on a piece of paper, and frankly, it doesn't make sense. "Bench-racing" audio equipment is even dumber than bench-racing cars. Why do you care about what it looks like on paper? You don't watch it, you listen to it. FWIW, my 2-way Paradigms have no problems digging below 30hz, and yet they also don't have a weakness in the midrange, no big gaps between mids and highs. They're just a 2-way tower with a single 6.5" midwoofer, and a 0.75" silk dome tweeter.
2) If you're switching digital sources, then a receiver would probably be the way to go, because it'll have onboard DACs. (Digital to Analogue Converter) Most preamps don't have DACs, so you'd have to get an outboard DAC. That said, most receivers don't have great DACs, either, but they're usually better than most lower-end sources. Receivers are a box full of compromises. Jack of all trades, master of none.
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