Big ego wrote: yawn... [ rhetoric /] yawn.
You sound tired. You should get more sleep.
Big ego wrote: yawn... [ rhetoric /] yawn.
You sound tired. You should get more sleep.
In reply to Big ego:
I'm sorry to hear that you are a racist. I was mad about the Patriot Act long before Obama was even a Senator if it makes you feel any better.
In reply to TJ:
Your sarcasm detector needs re-calibrating, TJ.
I think you just lost an argument that he wasn't even trying to win - for once.
Tim Baxter wrote: It's funny to me how this goes on for more than 8 years and nobody says a word until the gov't literally, not just figuratively, has a hand on your nuts. What did you THINK the patriot act was about? NSA internet eavesdropping. Guantanamo. Special Rendition. Threat levels. Do you think the No-Fly list and the TSA just popped up this summer? It's nice to see people finally saying, "hey, this ain't how we do things in america", but damn... took ya long enough.
I share your sentiment. I heard Boortz railing on this on his show right before Thanksgiving. I figured it was just him. Then this crap was all over the news for weeks. Here we go again. Hey, how are things going in Cuba, btw? Or, more importantly, Iraq and Trashcanistan?
Of course I'd rather have a meaningful discussion on how to effectively stop terrorist attacks. Personally, I think this involves sealing off the borders and not accepting any more student visas from the Middle East, not paying some worthless dribble-lip mother berkeleyer who can't spell the word "Transportation" to feel up 16 year old girls. But I suppose that makes me the enemy, or at least an "extremist."
Whatever. I don't mind driving.
yes.. I was harsh..
No, I don't want some monkey touching my weenus or my kids privates.
I'm not too worried about stuff thats done in the full view of the public. I'm worried about the stuff thats done behind closed doors. Warrantless wiretapping and rendition and the suspension of the writ of Habeas corpus..
btw.. Stop concentrating on the TSA and get the economy working.
FWIW, this crap might actually get me employed again. I work in general aviation and as soon as people realize that they can fly themselves without all the security screening and get closer to their destinations small aircraft will come out of retirement.
Recently, my girlfriend wanted to go from SE Indiana to (Middle of Nowhere) Colorado to see her new grandson. The trip was 1.5 hours drive to Indy, .5 hours from "economy" parking to terminal, .5 through security (we got lucky) and a short wait before boarding, 3 hour flight then .5 to get to the rental car and a 3.5 hour drive to Salida (closest town to destination with a motel). 9.5 hours total and around $450 round trip.
With a Beech Bonanza, I could make the flight including one fuel stop in about 6 hours. Mooney, 6.5 to 7 hours including a fuel stop. Both with fuel cost (estimated) at $750 round trip but with the flexibility to leave when WE want to leave and arrive (in this case) about 5 minutes from the motel with no security grope.
didn't some reformed terrorist explode a bomb that had been inserted into a place where the sun don't shine? blew up all over the Saudi prince he was meeting from what i remember. i'd imagine that would be an interesting cavity search for a TSA agent.
In reply to nutherjrfan:
Yes, the bomb-in-the-poo-chute incident really happened.
A lot more well-trained sniffer dogs and intense psychological profiling for everyone would be much cheaper AND effective. A pooch nosing around my nether regions is far more appealing than a groping by some TSA-hack. I may not like the "intimidation-factor" of a thorough grilling, but the potential bad-guys would like it a whole lot less.
TSA agents are the mall cops of the sky.
Datsun1500 wrote: Less freedoms? You guys act like you have the right to fly.You could drive to your destination, but it is easier to fly, and flying has rules. I lost relatives and friends on 9/11, if touching my junk makes it so that will not happen again, have a ball. When something happens again, people will be screaming about how it should not have happened and how the TSA did not do its job...
Don49 wrote: TJ, You only have to read the newspapers or pay attention to world events to know there is a real threat. Making rude comments when you obviously don't have accurate information does not make your point. Do you have any idea of how security works? It is based on a multi-layered system that makes it effective because no matter what technology or lack thereof that is used, the multiple layers increase the effectiveness. TSA screening is just one layer. But the real question is; Do you really think eliminating security will make it safer to fly, attend large public events or travel on a public transit system? The fact that there has not been another 911 type incident is an indicator that these measures are working.
Guys,
You're both assuming that the stuff the TSA is doing works. That's like saying the TSA is great at stopping apes from getting into airports, because no ape has been in the airport yet. The logic just doesn't hold up from that angle.
Many, many security experts will state the TSA's current tactics are extremely flawed and therefore we've lost rights, dignity, protection from sexual assault for the feeling of security. Not actual security. Don't we, as U.S. citizens', deserve actual security that works instead of knee jerk reactions to past terrorist attempts at bombing?
What I mean by this you have the shoe bomber, then we have to take our shoes off at a security checkpoint. Underpants bomber, then we have to let some TSA goon grope our teenage daughters or grandmothers before we can fly. The TSA is constantly reacting, instead of anticipating, terrorist attempts. It's as if they believe that by attempting to protect travellers against an attempt from the past the terrorist's won't think of new ways to get around the even more ridiculous security now in place. Queue printer cartridge bombs.
In response to the "Don't like it! Don't fly!" crowd...sure, you can drive if you want to have a longer trip, etc. But isn't that what Communists dealt with in the Soviet heyday? No travel unless approved by the Gov't? Is that what we've been reduced to? Are we Americans? Are we free to move as we see fit without the government literally grabbing your balls?
As long as we lay down and submit to this the terrorists win. We used to be free Americans. Now our government surveils us and gropes our children at the airport or we can't travel via plane. The terrorist's win because their actions have fundamentally changed the level of freedom we, as Americans, enjoy.
^^^ Which brings us right back to what I said earlier: the TSA is only the messenger for the real cause of the problem, the jihadi freaks. (Can't say Muslim extremists 'cause then someone on the board will claim I'm a racist instead of a realist. 
)
So I say squash the jihadis and most of the problem will go away. If that means some black ops (hey, something needs to keep Assange and WikiLeaks in bidness, no?) or staying in Afghanistan a while longer, then that's what needs to happen.
Datsun1500 wrote: Less freedoms? You guys act like you have the right to fly.
You act like the government has right to tell you that you can't.
Did you know that you (yes YOU) could be on the list of people who cannot fly without a call to get permission from the government? Well, then, surely you must have done something to warrant that right? Maybe you participated in a "Domestic Extremist" discussion on a message board.
You are OK with that, right? It's for the greater good.
um, I'm not an American, but I thought it was We the People, not We the Government. so I suppose y'all do have a right to fly. Isn't govt. supposed to protect rights? not grant them?
so funny that those that were for the patriot act way back when are now angry about some ball touching..
This is more important stuff.. "'The planet won't be destroyed by global warming because God promised Noah,' says politician bidding to chair U.S. energy committee"
Ha ha ha ha ha ha..
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328366/John-Shimkus-Global-warming-wont-destroy-planet-God-promised-Noah.html#ixzz17GlDZT12
In reply to Datsun1500:
There are numerous airports seriously considering dropping the TSA in favor of using private enterprises. Unfortunately and by federal mandate, even the "privates" have to employ current TSA guidelines. One can only presume the same applies to individual airlines, too.
Then, there is always the charter airline option which (apparently) can be secured by any means the owner/operator deems necessary. But, any serious security breach would certainly prompt government intervention.
The proverbial "slippery slope" keeps on getting greasier, doesn't it?
As for the don't like it don't fly statement, you have to realize the world doesn't end at the US borders, some of us have business or family in other countries.
Should I drive to Oz?
This is all ridiculous anyway.
I just flew from New Orleans to Tennessee. I went through the scanner. The guy in front of me got a scan and a pat down. If they were so good why did he have both? If they are so good why was a normal "enhanced" pat down sufficient? Why was he not confined to a separate area and a thorough pat down completed, instead of the rub and tug they do while you are in line. Being New Orleans, I wouldn't have minded. Or if I go to Vegas either. 
I disagree with them just based on the fact that they have lied on 3 different occasions about what is going on.
The scanners emit 20 times more radiation than stated by the TSA.
They said that the body scans were not stored and that there was no way they could be traced to the person and would not be used other than the immediate use. 32,000 scans with the persons face attached to the scan were accidently released from a Texas airport. IF THEY WERE NOT STORED HOW WERE THEY RELEASED?
If they are so critical how can they just turn them off or allow anyone to use the old metal detectors?
It has also been proven many times that the biggest weak link in airport security has never been the gate but the service entrance where supplies come in.
I never once asked for tighter security after 9/11. Maybe I am a minority.
Just remember this: “And he moved the tyranny and suppression of freedom to his own country, and they called it the Patriot Act under the disguise of fighting terrorism.” Osama bin Laden.
In reply to "quotes":
"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death." - Adolf Hitler
“We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution." -Vladimir Lenin
"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers (adminstrators) too plainly proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery." -Thomas Jefferson
"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson
Sorry to drag out the same old tired quotes... but dammit - its not about air safety. It is about the creep of tyrannical actions. I figured a few morsels from some guys who knew a thing about it 1st hand was appropriate.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Sorry to drag out the same old tired quotes... but dammit - its not about air safety. It is about the creep of tyrannical actions. I figured a few morsels from some guys who knew a thing about it 1st hand was appropriate.
I'm getting quite tired of Jefferson quotes though.. Ugh.. so many people going around flaunting his crap and forgetting about the other founding fathers.. Jefferson's idea of government was defeated at Appomattox courthouse... Too many people running around quoting his crap like its law now adays.
Flight service, Where are you getting your information? The images that were released were from a courthouse, not an airport. The software installed on TSA scanners cannot store images and faces are blurred out. It cannot be changed at the local level. It would have to have new software loaded. I have access to the real facts because I work for TSA. If all the allegations that are being made were true, I would be the first to blow the whistle. You may not want to hear or believe it, but there are very strict controls and standards for all TSA equipment. One of the reasons technology doesn't instantly change is that there is a very thorough testing protocol that all new equipment must go through before it is deployed. This can take up to 2 years. In an ideal world we wouldn't need this level of security, but that changed even before 911. I don't know of anyone in TSA who is thrilled to have to do the enhanced pat downs, but unless the threat suddenly goes away, this is what we have to live with for now.
Big ego wrote: I'm getting quite tired of Jefferson quotes though.. Ugh.. so many people going around flaunting his crap and forgetting about the other founding fathers.. Jefferson's idea of government was defeated at Appomattox courthouse... Too many people running around quoting his crap like its law now adays.
True enough but he did have a well thought out vision of how things had gone wrong in the past, how they could (theoretically at the time) be better. It also does not hurt that he was eloquent and direct - not a common trait in the writing of some of his peers. Many a wordy blowhard founded this country.
But... just to appease you:
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy” -James Madison
"Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it." -John Adams
No compact among men... can be pronounced everlasting and inviolable, and if I may so express myself, that no Wall of words, that no mound of parchment can be so formed as to stand against the sweeping torrent of boundless ambition on the one side, aided by the sapping current of corrupted morals on the other. -George Washington
There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. -James Madison
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke
How about that quote? I guess we can all just bitch about those at the front lines doing something about this, and complain about the inconvenience. What Rights has anyone here lost? The last time I checked, all of the Rights are still in the Constitution as they were years ago. You may may not be able to carry you favorite knife or pair of scissors onto a plane, but I guess they can still go in your checked baggage.
The Islamic Faith has been at war with the rest of the world since its inception. No, thats not racist, its historical fact. The Christian Faith has not been much better, they just started to listen to themselves in the last century or so. We are at War, ask those in Portland at the tree lighting ceremony.
Oh No! I have to get a pat down and have my junk touched! Deal with it!. The favorite weapon so far has been the airlines. So chances are the enemy will do so again. If you don't think they repeat themselves, look at whats been happening in Israel or Thailand for the last few years/decades.
And as for not telling the public about what recent succesful plans have been foiled, thats called Operational Security. Any first year military member learns that.
Do you all act this way when the rules are imposed at your favorite driving event? If you don't like it, the doors are open. I tell people all the time that if the don't like the laws here, the boarders are open, you can leave at any time. Me, personally, I will keep fighting to protect this Country and those within it. Especially those too weak to do so for themselves.
Speediot wrote: I tell people all the time that if the don't like the laws here, the boarders are open, you can leave at any time. Me, personally, I will keep fighting to protect this Country and those within it. Especially those too weak to do so for themselves.
What if the enemy is one of us, fighting to run the country you love? Changing the rules one by one. Suppose they become the people who tell the people who fight FOR this country what to do? Will you fight them or will you do what they tell you?
"To sin by silence, when they should protest, makes cowards of men." — Abraham Lincoln
So are you against any particular politician or the current one or the previous one in Office? The Enemy are those trying to destroy our way of life. Our government, duly elected by all of us, whether you like it or not, is trying to protect us. Have you run for office or even voted in the last election? What are you doing to make things better?
The current Administration may not be the best. The previous one may not have been the best. Personally I believe that if the one in power during the 90's actually did something, we would not be in the situation we are in now. I did not like some of the things the last President had done, but he DID something. He TRIED to win the war and protect the people. Only the because of their ADD do the masses think that it could be done in the same time it take to win a video game.
I don't suggest you be silent about what you believe are wrongs to society, but what are you doing? I haven't spent a dime on my cars in the last six months. My extra money has been going to training so I can perform my job better, because the department I work for can't afford to do so.
There are wolves in the world. Are you sheep or a sheepdog? Us sheepdogs would like some support. We didn't invite the wolves, neither did our bosses.
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