GRM - Gran Turismo 5 Racing League - Series 3

Z06 was pretty fun at the start. T.J. and I were in a full on dual for what must have been 7 laps. I didn't push too hard to pass him (its a long race), but I did manage to experience some draft in the Z06, which I haven't seen before. That draft is what (somewhat unintentionally) pulled me just past him on the outside of the straight. He let me in, so I took it, I figured he could try following me around for a while. Unfortunately he caught a tire a few turns in and I lost him.

Brad followed me pretty consistently for the rest of the race. I did a minor slide off at one point (lost a few seconds) and was pretty close to cutting a corner near the end there (that might have given Brad the race).

HH kind of went the other way, quite to start (ran to the front) and more interesting at the end. Getting bored in the middle of the race I decided to "blow everyone's mind" and pit way earlier then I needed to (lap 8 of 19 I believe). At least I would get to catch back up to the pack and do some dicing. Of course, when I pulled back out of the pits, I was in 2nd! I had no idea T.J. was the only one even on the same lap.

I did manage to pull a "Apex's gambit" on T.J. though. He was so enamored with being in first he didn't want to pit! This was not going to work out for him though, in watching the times, I closed in on him by something like 20 seconds in just over two laps! Once I caught him (4-5 laps) I could see he was having issues, I knew his tires must have been VERY bad, so I went into "wait" mode, got non-aggressive and just watched to see what he would do. It was actually a bit difficult at times not to slide into the back of him during braking. Eventually he slide off between 11 and 12, but still managed to pull out a 2nd.

The track is actually a pretty good testing track, it has a bit of everything and is not to "tricky". Nice and wide also, that is always nice. I actually did not get much practice here also and almost all of that was in GT and Saloon potential cars, so it looks like we were all down a bit on preparation.

There are probably two Critical Corners here from what I could see. The first would probably be #5, which you could take a pretty much full speed in both classes if you set it up right, this could save a bit of time (I noticed I would pull ahead of Brad here in Z06). The other corner would probably be 11. A bit hard to get right, and since it leads into the straight, it can have a big impact. I didn't hit this one that good most of the time (Brad would tend to gain back his time here).

One more thing I was going to note. I can suck following someone. Avoiding sliding into them when braking is an issue, but the biggest problem I have is not being able to see the track! You can be pretty blind sometimes!

aircooled wrote: There are probably two Critical Corners here from what I could see. The first would probably be #5, which you could take a pretty much full speed in both classes if you set it up right, this could save a bit of time (I noticed I would pull ahead of Brad here in Z06). The other corner would probably be 11. A bit hard to get right, and since it leads into the straight, it can have a big impact. I didn't hit this one that good most of the time (Brad would tend to gain back his time here).

Actually, from my prospective (watching the gaps) we were pretty even through 5. I would make up time in the 8-9-10 complex and then lose it right back in 11. I was very inconsistent in 11.

Brad said: "Grae you should have kept pushing me in the Z06 race. When you passed me the front straight you were carrying a lot of speed."

It seemed to me that when you drafted back up to pass me You were carrying a lot of speed. Sometimes I can run up front with the Z06 but it doesen't seem that I'm able to preserve my tires as well in doing so. I end up falling back toward the end of the race. I was just trying to insure that I didn't have to stop. I was seeing my tires go away and I was really struggling to stay with you in the infield.

Grizz, I don't know what to say about your woes with the Vette. I DO like it and even though I'm not particularly fast in it, I've enjoyed running it. Regarding the Citroen, I've found that I'd better do most of my braking in the Volvo in a straight line. If it gets just a little crossed up it will easily go into a slide. If the tires get red, you're in trouble. Also, there is a finite cool down time for the tires. You are probably encountering the same problem. Indy is a tight track and very difficult to put down a lot of power with a FF drivetrain. The amount of speed you gain on the straights is probably given back while you're trying to accelerate out of the many tight corners. At Le Sarthe, you had all those long straights to gain an advantage and relatively fast corners. I'm sure you've experimented with short shifting to try to keep from breaking the tires loose, right?? If not, work on that. If I didn't do that I'd have to make two pit stops for tires in the race lengths we run. I scorch the tires in qualifying because it's up to a second or two faster, but I can't keep that up for race length. Do you use the controller triggers or buttons? The main reason I made myself learn to use the triggers is that I can feather the throttle better. I wish I could say it has the same benefit on braking, and theoretically it should. I've tried several brake practice sessions with higher sensitivity numbers but can't seem to master it. I usually set my brake sensitivity very low because of that. I don't know if anyone has noticed this but even though I START braking sooner than anyone else, I think, I often catch back up near the turn in point. The advantage to me is much less tendency to lock up the brakes and loose control. It may not look too racy but it works for me. Also, I rarely lock up the brakes which also causes your tires to go away sooner.

Now, if anyone has any hints to help me brake better with the controller, I'm listening

One more thing. I ran a few laps with the Volvo @ Daytona this morning and I was wrong about the ride ht. causing the instability problem. Actually I had gotten so radical with the rear toe in, spring, and shock settings that what worked fairly well in the infield and was controllable solo, was uncontrollable in the draft. It was also uncontrollable on the high banking @ Daytona. With a couple of more intuitive changes to the settings I'm close to where I want to be already. I like this track much better.

That T11 was hard for me to figure out. I'm not sure I got it right very many times. My bugaboo though was T4. T3 is deceptive in that you go through it flat out, but you have to start braking for T4 while still in T3 or else you hit the sand...which I did.

AC. yeah you were gaining on me really fast after your pit. When you pitted I decided to go for it and went into tire conservation mode, so my lap times slowed down by several seconds. Then missing my braking point twice in a row at T8 really put an end to any idea that I could pull it off. Since I wasn't sure how much of a gap there was to 3rd I soldiered on for the last 3 laps with not tires at all on the fronts. In retrospect if I would've pitted when you did or the following lap I would've been way better off, but still 2nd I figure. I'm going to win one of these races someday.

T4 was a bit of a "gotcha" if you don't watch it, especially on the first lap with cool tires! A bit of time could be made by blasting through T2 and T3, but you had to make sure you backed off before T4.

Grae: Regarding braking. You do have your brake balance set with the rears really low right? I think I am running 3f/1r on the Focus. I don't think I have any issue with brake oversteer. I also tend to set the brakes up so that full brakes at full speed will result in a slight screech (not slide). This make rapid braking easier, but of course you still have to ease off near the end. This is one reason why people seem to out brake me, I go pretty conservative with them since it is probably the easiest way to take yourself out of a race.

On over shifting: This is something I do a lot, especially in HH. Coming out of a slow corner, shifting early gives you a sort of "cheap" traction control. Generally, in HH, I take even the slowest corner in 2nd, then shift to 3rd very quickly. I end up low in the power band, but I can use full throttle without wheel spin.

Graefin10 wrote: Regarding the Citroen, I've found that I'd better do most of my braking in the Volvo in a straight line. If it gets just a little crossed up it will easily go into a slide. If the tires get red, you're in trouble. Also, there is a finite cool down time for the tires. You are probably encountering the same problem. Indy is a tight track and very difficult to put down a lot of power with a FF drivetrain. The amount of speed you gain on the straights is probably given back while you're trying to accelerate out of the many tight corners. At Le Sarthe, you had all those long straights to gain an advantage and relatively fast corners. I'm sure you've experimented with short shifting to try to keep from breaking the tires loose, right?? If not, work on that. If I didn't do that I'd have to make two pit stops for tires in the race lengths we run. I scorch the tires in qualifying because it's up to a second or two faster, but I can't keep that up for race length. Do you use the controller triggers or buttons? The main reason I made myself learn to use the triggers is that I can feather the throttle better. I wish I could say it has the same benefit on braking, and theoretically it should. I've tried several brake practice sessions with higher sensitivity numbers but can't seem to master it. I usually set my brake sensitivity very low because of that. I don't know if anyone has noticed this but even though I START braking sooner than anyone else, I think, I often catch back up near the turn in point. The advantage to me is much less tendency to lock up the brakes and loose control. It may not look too racy but it works for me. Also, I rarely lock up the brakes which also causes your tires to go away sooner.

I use the triggers, for the same reasons.And yeah, the Cit prefers straight line braking.

I don't know what's causing the issues with the brakes, because I had it happen last night half a lap after pitting and my tires were blue and the brakes weren't locked up. It just seems to happen randomly every once in a while.

I've short shifted and babied it, it helps me keep tire wear down, it's what I was doing at Suzuka while I was in the front. My issue is twofold, A. I'm not that good at the game, and B. I'm really bad in groups. I get so focused on not hitting people that I screw up my lines and speed. Last night I was in a dirty room and consistently ran at the front. But I don't think you guys want me shoving your cars around just so I can stay on the line.

aircooled wrote: Regarding braking. You do have your brake balance set with the rears really low right? I think I am running 3f/1r on the Focus. I don't think I have any issue with brake oversteer. I also tend to set the brakes up so that full brakes at full speed will result in a slight screech (not slide). This make rapid braking easier, but of course you still have to ease off near the end. This is one reason why people seem to out brake me, I go pretty conservative with them since it is probably the easiest way to take yourself out of a race.

I think I'm running around 6/4 on the Turdbeast, and about the same on the Vette. I like it better because I barely have to go above 1/4 braking and I'm slowing down quite well and I can STOP when I need too. I'm pretty sure that's saved a couple of you in a few races when I've had to oh E36 M3 after you moved in front of me for a corner. Also, it's fairly easy to know when I'm about to lock the brakes up because the whole car will shake like a paint mixer.

Here is a fun thing to spark debate... here is your all-time best drivers.

I won't disclose the formula or gaps between drivers (so that none of you can manipulate it); but it rewards consistency, wins and championships...

So without further ado...

1. Chimpwithwheels

2. allaircooled

3. NickF40

4. apexcarver

5. graefin10

6. ahutson

7. BradLTL

8. M10PSI

9. skiggity

10. Baelwerker

11. concealer404

12. GTP_CAMikaze

13. TheDerve

14. RealMiniDriver

15. pointofdepartur

Also, don't expect me to update this... it was a PITA to do one time. I mostly just wanted to see if it would shake out the way I expected.

EDIT: Forgot Grizz

1. Grizz

I feel slightly better now.

E: I put 24, it changes to 1, I have to edit, and it still says one. WHY

Air said: "Grae: Regarding braking. You do have your brake balance set with the rears really low right?"

I hate to admit it but on almost all my GRM series car the brakes are @ 1F and 0R. I know that explains why I suck on the brakes but no matter how I've tried I can't seem to modulate the brakes with the trigger. It's about the same as using the button as an on/off switch. I'll try 3/1 again @ Daytona and see if I can get the hang of it. I've actually wondered if there might be something wrong with the pot. on the left trigger with this controller. That's a very real possibility. It's like I ease down on it and the car is slowing too slowly then just a little bit more and instant lockup. Actually the R trigger has nothing for about 1/3 distance then comes on too hard. I've sort of gotten used to that though. @ least 2/3 of the travel changes the amount of throttle.

Grizz, I'm quite certain that the 6/4 setting you're using is the source of your braking problems. Try Air's suggestion of 3/1 and see if it helps.

I did try a 3/1 or something close(I think it was 3/2) and the car didn't slow down at all, that's why I bumped it up.

For you braking woes, I bought these dealies that stick onto the L2 & R2 buttons and make them much more triggerish(think like the 360 controller), you get a 2 pack for like 4 bucks or so.

They make feathering the throttle and brakes much better.

Grizz wrote: I did try a 3/1 or something close(I think it was 3/2) and the car didn't slow down at all, that's why I bumped it up. For you braking woes, I bought these dealies that stick onto the L2 & R2 buttons and make them much more triggerish(think like the 360 controller), you get a 2 pack for like 4 bucks or so. They make feathering the throttle and brakes much better.

Where did you get them???????

I use 1/0 on all my cars as well in the series.

I still don't understand why we have to remove ABS from cars that came with ABS standard, but i'm not real fussed about it.

Graefin10 wrote:

Grizz wrote: I did try a 3/1 or something close(I think it was 3/2) and the car didn't slow down at all, that's why I bumped it up. For you braking woes, I bought these dealies that stick onto the L2 & R2 buttons and make them much more triggerish(think like the 360 controller), you get a 2 pack for like 4 bucks or so. They make feathering the throttle and brakes much better.

Where did you get them???????

Gamestop, walmart had them too I think.

Look like these: http://www.amazon.com/Gioteck-Real-Triggers-Playstation-3/dp/B001AW156U/ref=sr_1_34?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1313087578&sr=1-34

Only not as expensive.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I use 1/0 on all my cars as well in the series. I still don't understand why we have to remove ABS from cars that came with ABS standard, but i'm not real fussed about it.

Because this series is about driving and racing, not about the cars.

Thanks man. So you feel like it helps? I was hoping that it would be some sort of device that doubled the distance traveled with the triggers from stop to stop. If I continue to enjoy this like I do now I may have to invest in a wheel someday. I don't know which one to get though and there's no way I'd do it without advice from someone who knows what they're talking about. Too many med. expenses right now though.

I think it helps me keep my fingers on the buttons, which is the biggest issue I had, there's no lip under those two so my fingers would slip off all the time.

As far as throttle control, yeah, I think it helps, I do know I can do better with the controller that has them than the one that doesn't.

BradLTL wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I use 1/0 on all my cars as well in the series. I still don't understand why we have to remove ABS from cars that came with ABS standard, but i'm not real fussed about it.

Because this series is about driving and racing, not about the cars.

Makes sense! And this shows my shortcomings as a driver. (And explains the banzai Escort build. I can't drive and i know it, so i'll win other ways )

I use 3/1 for my brake settings. I find that with the vette I can pretty much just mash the button down at least at high speeds (like braking for T1 at Indy) and get the car hauled down with little drama. I have to modulate only near the end of my braking and I usually resort to a series of taps on the button if I need to brake a bit more going into the corner.

The DC5 is way easier to lock up under braking - I think it has everything to do with the tires. I have to actually try to modulate the brakes a bit or else I will lock up and skid. My problem with the vette isn't braking is that I have a habit of downshifting too early and in the vette that frequently occurs right at or before turn in and I end up breaking the rear end loose because of it. The DC5 is totally tolerant of the technique and downshifting causes no undue drama, but in the vette it gets me sideways a lot.

For you trigger users for gas and brake, do you use the other set of buttons (L1/R1) for shifting? I shift and brake and shift and accelerate at the same time all the time, don't see how I could master 4 buttons with 2 fingers to do that...or do you have lots of finger on the front of the controller?

In reply to BradLTL:

Interesting rankings Brad. I don't know how season 1 went since I didn't have a PS3 then, but it seemed that Nick and Chimp had a good track record for high finishes when they finished in season 2.

I don't know how you did the rankings, but they seem pretty accurate to me. I'm guessing ahutson ran season 1? I remember him running a few of the season 2 races then the Coast Guard had other plans for him.

T.J.

I use my middle fingers on the triggers for R- accelerate, L-brake; my index fingers to shift up and down on the L1, R1 buttons; my L thumb to steer with the L stick; my R thumb for the e-brake on X. I keep forgetting to check the options to see if view L, R, and Rear are available to set up on the other 3 switches on the Rt. cross. Does anyone know? If we all had that ability it would help us @ the start and in traffic.

Grae, I have the D pad buttons set up for right and left view and I use the left trigger for rear view. It is hard for me to look to the side at anytime other than at the start when stationary or on a long straight. I also use the right trigger as the E-brake.

I think I tried that setup briefly once and had a hard time keeping a hold of the controller since all fingers have a button there weren't enough left over to hold the thing.

In reply to T.J.:

Yeah, I know what you mean. I think I told you about my rt. index finger that almost got ripped off in a very hard motoX bike crash. It won't open all the way and it took a while to loosen it up so that hand would function satisfactorily. It's habitual now. Isn't it amazing how the mind/body learns to do things like that?

T.J. wrote: For you trigger users for gas and brake, do you use the other set of buttons (L1/R1) for shifting? I shift and brake and shift and accelerate at the same time all the time, don't see how I could master 4 buttons with 2 fingers to do that...or do you have lots of finger on the front of the controller?

L2 is brake,R2 is gas, X is upshift, [ ] is downshift.

In reply to Grizz:

That makes sense.

T.J. wrote: In reply to BradLTL: Interesting rankings Brad. I don't know how season 1 went since I didn't have a PS3 then, but it seemed that Nick and Chimp had a good track record for high finishes when they finished in season 2.

ahhh good times with Chimp and I.... yeah and after season 2 is when my internet started to..well...SUCK. I missed the good first part of season 1 but did a full effort in both Miata and SBC and then TRIED to do season 3.

yeah that list is accurate I would say