Has anyone ever asked this question before????

Wouldn't let me edit my post gave me 404..

Anyway I wanted to add this link to my above post.. Damn that sucks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iwnnE12HCM

the leader would still be on the last lap until he crosses the finish line... so why wouldn't the white flag be shown the whole time?

The leader is the leader. If the lead changes on the final lap, the corner workers should communicate that to Start (who should then ask T&S who the new leader is, and PDQ before the race ends). If we don't report back to 'the tower' when stuff happens, someone's not paying enough attention to the race.

Cite: old SCCA Corner Worker.

In reply to novaderrik:

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

Has anyone seen something like this happen before???

I have seen the leader crash out on the last lap before, but never with a lap or more lead..

drsmooth wrote: In reply to novaderrik: In reply to friedgreencorrado: Has anyone seen something like this happen before??? I have seen the leader crash out on the last lap before, but never with a lap or more lead..

Like someone else mentioned, you can't "retract" a flag after it's been thrown. Also, recall that in the case of a white used for "last lap", the entire field is shown the flag - not just the leader. It's just too complicated to try to rectify it on the flagstand. In every form of racing I've ever participated, there's a rule that the leader must be running at the finish-otherwise, the next running car is the new leader. Other non-running cars can be classified by how much distance they've completed (and recall that distance is measured in full laps completed, partial laps are not included), but if you don't drag the carcass over the line on the last lap, you're not the winner. It's actually kind of an arbritrary decision..but one that had to be made. Otherwise, in situations like the one you described..everyone would be camped out in T&S for 16hrs trying to figure out who the winner was.

Just because I know this fun fact, the victory lap came about because when lap scoring was less than reliable the leader and often second place car as well would go an extra lap or two so that if the count was wrong or they threw the checkered too soon they would still count as winning.

wvumtnbkr wrote: We almost had this happen to us in a Lemons race. We were leading by 3 laps. We took the white flag and the car quit on the back straight. The 2nd place car caught us for a lap (while the car was parked). We were not sure how the race would be scored because it is a timed event. It was complicated, because they were waiting for our car to cross the line for the checkered. Our car eventually started again and we did cross the line (with 2nd place on the same lap!). I am not sure what they would have done if our car had not started. Technically, we were still in first place when the race should have been over.

Quoted for awesome story.

I'm pretty sure that in a timed race, if the leader (with multi lap lead when time ran out) took the white flag (1 lap to go, 'til time runs out) … and came to a stop on course, then the second place car would still be 2nd … just one less lap behind …

but if it's a specified amt. of laps and the above happened, then I can't see how the race wouldn't be "extended" whether that means the white flag has to be pulled and a green shown in it's place and the white re-displayed when the last lap is again reached or whatever … but if it's a 500 lap race, don't see how a sanctioning body could get away with running only 495 laps … as long as it's not a incident/weather …. etc … caused problem (we've seen shortened races for reasons of this type).. if it's just that the lead car pulls off …

That's something I never thought about. Say it's a 200 lap race, and some drivers only have 195 or 190 or so laps in. Does the RACE end after every driver on course has completed a lap after the checkered drops, or do they keep going for a few more laps to settle the field?

How about a 20 lap race and someone's a two laps down?

once the leader crosses the finish line having completed the requisite number of laps the race distance has been completed … even if the leader is the only car to complete that many laps … any cars behind the leader (which technically include a car immediately in front of the leader as the checker flies) then continue racing 'til they take the checker … then race over

Knurled wrote: That's something I never thought about. Say it's a 200 lap race, and some drivers only have 195 or 190 or so laps in. Does the RACE end after every driver on course has completed a lap after the checkered drops, or do they keep going for a few more laps to settle the field? How about a 20 lap race and someone's a two laps down?

NASCAR would be a hell of a lot more entertaining if everyone had to finish all their laps- especially for the damaged cars that are 100+ laps down but stay out on track in the hopes that a few more cars might crash out or break and they could gain a position or two.

friedgreencorrado wrote:

drsmooth wrote: In reply to novaderrik: In reply to friedgreencorrado: Has anyone seen something like this happen before??? I have seen the leader crash out on the last lap before, but never with a lap or more lead..

Like someone else mentioned, you can't "retract" a flag after it's been thrown. Also, recall that in the case of a white used for "last lap", the entire field is shown the flag - not just the leader. It's just too complicated to try to rectify it on the flagstand. In every form of racing I've ever participated, there's a rule that the leader must be running at the finish-otherwise, the next running car is the new leader. Other non-running cars can be classified by how much distance they've completed (and recall that distance is measured in *full* laps completed, partial laps are not included), but if you don't drag the carcass over the line on the last lap, you're not the winner. It's actually kind of an arbritrary decision..but one that had to be made. Otherwise, in situations like the one you described..everyone would be camped out in T&S for 16hrs trying to figure out who the winner was.

I was curious to know what you were going to say about it since you have flagger experience. I have only flagged one day, I prefer the grid.

If the leader crashes on the last lap, there would be a full course yellow, so the race would finish under yellow till the appointed number of laps is completed. Lead car at that time would get the checker.

In reply to iceracer:

That would be the smart way to handle it.

Anti-stance wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote:

drsmooth wrote: In reply to novaderrik: In reply to friedgreencorrado: Has anyone seen something like this happen before??? I have seen the leader crash out on the last lap before, but never with a lap or more lead..

Like someone else mentioned, you can't "retract" a flag after it's been thrown. Also, recall that in the case of a white used for "last lap", the entire field is shown the flag - not just the leader. It's just too complicated to try to rectify it on the flagstand. In every form of racing I've ever participated, there's a rule that the leader must be running at the finish-otherwise, the next running car is the new leader. Other non-running cars can be classified by how much distance they've completed (and recall that distance is measured in *full* laps completed, partial laps are not included), but if you don't drag the carcass over the line on the last lap, you're not the winner. It's actually kind of an arbritrary decision..but one that had to be made. Otherwise, in situations like the one you described..everyone would be camped out in T&S for 16hrs trying to figure out who the winner was.

I was curious to know what you were going to say about it since you have flagger experience. I have only flagged one day, I prefer the grid.

iceracer wrote: If the leader crashes on the last lap, there would be a full course yellow, so the race would finish under yellow till the appointed number of laps is completed. Lead car at that time would get the checker.

this situation doesn't have to include a crash …

leader runs out of gas .. has multi-lap lead … tries to coast to the finish line … sees he's not going to make it … turns onto pit road (therefore no yellow flag) but comes to a stop before his pit, and before the s/f line (somewhere about the first or second pit stall) … he was the pitted just before the s/f line … his crew has to run all the way to pit in, then push him to his pits … get fuel in (I'm under the impression that you can't push the car across the finish line for the win) … fuel him, then get the car started …

while all this is going on the second place car crosses the s/f line … he hasn't finished the race distance … are you saying that he's still the winner ?

iceracer wrote: If the leader crashes on the last lap, there would be a full course yellow, so the race would finish under yellow till the appointed number of laps is completed. Lead car at that time would get the checker.

'course it could be a SCCA race and the leader just pulled the car off the track and there was a local yellow, not a FCY