HOLY COW - aka, See? This is why statism is so bad.

ransom wrote: I know the right answer is "I'm sorry, officer, but while I have nothing to hide, I feel that is inappropriate and I know that I'm not obliged to permit it." But one's day is likely to become much less pleasant at the point of such an utterance...

If rights aren't exercised, they disappear. I'm fully prepared to deny consent to a search if ever asked, even though I don't have anything remotely illegal on me or my vehicle.

Sometimes you have to go to the mat for principles, and be prepared to stay in the fight long enough to win.

In reply to alex:

You're absolutely right, no question.

mad_machine wrote: nobody said the phone had to have a battery. Provided you do not have an iPhone.. you can drop the battery out of it and hand over a dead phone. With my GalaxyS.. it is a 10 second manuever

I like "No. I do not consent to any search. Am I free to go?" much better. Hand anything over at all and the terrorists win.

See what I did there.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I like "No. I do not consent to any search. Am I free to go?" much better. Hand anything over at all and the terrorists win. See what I did there.

Why do you hate America? Why are you with the criminals?

alex wrote: If rights aren't exercised, they disappear. I'm fully prepared to deny consent to a search if ever asked, even though I don't have anything remotely illegal on me or my vehicle.

I've turned down searches twice. And surprisingly, the cop was perfectly cool with it each time.

Hell, I still got a warning once after denying a search when I fully deserved a ticket. I thought for sure I was getting whatever he could write up once I said no. The other time, I still got the ticket, but it was deserved, and I was probably getting it either way.

We did let a canine unit search the car once when asked. The dog was clearly young and still in training, and the cop was very polite about it (and, or course,we knew there was nothing to find.) The dog was fascinated by the fast food burgers we had just picked up.

mad_machine wrote: nobody said the phone had to have a battery. Provided you do not have an iPhone.. you can drop the battery out of it and hand over a dead phone. With my GalaxyS.. it is a 10 second manuever

Flash drives don't need batteries to be scanned- I thought the same way.

keethrax wrote:

alex wrote: If rights aren't exercised, they disappear. I'm fully prepared to deny consent to a search if ever asked, even though I don't have anything remotely illegal on me or my vehicle.

I've turned down searches twice. And surprisingly, the cop was perfectly cool with it each time. Hell, I still got a warning once after denying a search when I fully deserved a ticket. I thought for sure I was getting whatever he could write up once I said no. The other time, I still got the ticket, but it was deserved, and I was probably getting it either way. We did let a canine unit search the car once when asked. The dog was clearly young and still in training, and the cop was very polite about it (and, or course,we knew there was nothing to find.) The dog was fascinated by the fast food burgers we had just picked up.

That happened to my brother once. He was bored, driving a 100$ beater, and had just gotten chinese. The dog went BALLISTIC.

mndsm wrote:

keethrax wrote: We did let a canine unit search the car once when asked. The dog was clearly young and still in training, and the cop was very polite about it (and, or course,we knew there was nothing to find.) The dog was fascinated by the fast food burgers we had just picked up.

That happened to my brother once. He was bored, driving a 100$ beater, and had just gotten chinese. The dog went BALLISTIC.

Note to self... keep jar of ether handy in console for hilarity to ensue during k-9 search.

You're telling me the cops have some sort of black box that can wirelessly read the contents of any cell phone, regardless of operating system and hardware configuration? I dunno if I buy that. Forensic labs can get data off of phones because they have physical access to the phone and its storage devices. Doing it wirelessly seems a little difficult. If it were that easy, hackers would already be doing it. The best I've seen hackers do is to attack specific vulnerabilities in specific phones.

Maybe the cops don't want to honor the FOIA request because they bought a product that doesn't work?

In reply to paanta:

I don't think anybody's suggested that it's wireless.

It's not wireless: http://www.cellebrite.com/forensic-products/ufed-physical-pro.html

I can just see it now - the officer who pulls you over asks "Were you texting while driving just now?" "No officer." "Do you mind if I take a quick look at your phone to verify that?" I bet most people would hand the phone over without thinking twice.

"I've turned down searches twice. And surprisingly, the cop was perfectly cool with it each time."

A decent cop will ask almost every traffic stop if they have anything illegal and can they search. It is not personal, just a habit that frequently yields offenses. You would honestly not believe how many people will consent to a search when they have blatant felony items on them. I'm talking pipe bombs, cookies of crack (100+ grams), sawed off shotguns, etc... As far as searching cell phones in Texas an officer could search the cell phone incident to arrest of the owner if it was in his possession at the time of arrest. But a detective that went solely by this is begging to get any evidence found during that search kicked. I don't know any detectives in Texas that would have a cell phone searched without a warrant.

I am still saying that there is no Sgt on the planet that would hand a beat cop one of those cell phone readers.

More and more I just want to cancel my cell phone service and just keep the phone in the glovebox in case I have to make a 911 call. We survived without cell phones before they came along...I'm sure we could again.

true... but I need mine for work. As an "on call" stage hand, without a phone, I do not get work.

And yes.. I am sure if you were pleasant to the cop and explained why you did not want him to search without a warrent.. he would hopefully understand.

Ojala wrote: A decent cop will ask almost every traffic stop if they have anything illegal and can they search.

Guess I've never met a decent cop in the last 13 years!

Twin_Cam wrote: More and more I just want to cancel my cell phone service and just keep the phone in the glovebox in case I have to make a 911 call. We survived without cell phones before they came along...I'm sure we could again.

Bit of an overreaction wouldn't you say?

z31maniac wrote:

Ojala wrote: A decent cop will ask almost every traffic stop if they have anything illegal and can they search.

Guess I've never met a decent cop in the last 13 years!

I would say that maybe 1% of police are good at being a cop. They are usually the ones that ask to work the ghetto on midnights so I dont know if most people would even meet them.

I have been stopped more than once but never had a cop ask to search my car. Well, that's if you don't count the cop who wanted to see the J-H's engine.

But if asked, the first question would be 'Why do you want to search?' If the answer is insufficient (or even if it is) you do not have to give consent. At that point the officer can either let you go or he/she will have to detain you and call for a search warrant. At that point their career is on the line, they better have a damn good idea of what's there. That's when the 'You have seen my license and I do not consent to a search. Am I free to go?' question is asked.

Same thing applies with a cell phone. It's my personal property and I would not hand it over for any reason. The nice officer will have to call for a search warrant before plugging anything into my cell phone.

I'm willing to bet there is a way to find out if the scanner thing was plugged into a phone, if it can defeat password protection it's got to leave 'tracks'.

dogbreath wrote: I'm ready here in my little Michigan town with my 'collection,' ready for some backup.

Michigan militia, anyone?

Joey

Check it out. The important bit is in bolt at the bottom of the second page that says that no court orders are currently necessary for reading this information and that law enforcement officers are doing and have been doing this for a while.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2011/tc20110421_195911.htm

tuna55 wrote: The important bit is in bolt at the bottom of the second page that says that no court orders are currently necessary for reading this information and that law enforcement officers are doing and have been doing this for a while.

No court order to read the data on the phone - but that does not mean they don't need one to get that phone out of my pocket.

Me, I'm just waiting for SkyNet to take over all the traffic cameras and surveillance cameras and for my coffee machine to start spying on me.

It's 2011 and big brother is out there and he's here to stay. Ask the British how many cameras they have watching them in their country? You want to worry about something...how about this, insurance companies may want to use GPS in our cars to tell if you speed, run red lights, make illegal turns. I hear from a friend who is insurance that this is being discussed now.

^ It's here now. Progressive has a commercial touting a device to show how "good" a driver you are so you can get a discount.

My prediction - this will be de facto mandatory eventually, or you'll pay thru the nose.

http://www.progressive.com/auto/snapshot-common-questions.aspx

What is Snapshot? Snapshot, our Pay As You Drive program, is a type of usage-based insurance. After you enroll, you can earn a personalized car insurance discount—your Snapshot DiscountSM—by driving less, in safer ways and during safer times of day. The better you drive, the more you can save, up to 30 percent.

That Progressive commercial makes my skin crawl. When they say, "Show us how good a driver you are and get better rates!" they're not telling you that after looking through your driving patterns, the's an equal chance that your rates will actually go up.

The cell phone tracking rabbit hole goes deeper. Among the tidbits from an article in today's WSJ:

“After analyzing more than 16 million records of call date, time and position, the researchers determined that, taken together, people's movements appeared to follow a mathematical pattern. The scientists said that, with enough information about past movements, they could forecast someone's future whereabouts with 93.6% accuracy.”

"Just by watching where you spend time, I can say a lot about the music you like, the car you drive, your financial risk, your risk for diabetes. If you add financial data, you get an even greater insight."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704547604576263261679848814.html

jeffmx5 wrote: My prediction - this will be de facto mandatory eventually, or you'll pay thru the nose.

I am pretty sure that if that happens that little device will have a very hard time interpreting its accel and GPS data from inside the centrifuge I place it in.