I use Liberty Mutual by way of Geico and back in 2019 we paid 347 (which was, admittedly, a good price according to everyone we talked to), this year our bill was 1039. So that's a lot more.
No claims, new roof as of 2019, it looks like everything in the "Policy forms and endorsement" section is the same, even though I cannot tell what any of it is.
Is that typical?
Geico bumped up my rate that high, and I had Liberty Mutual, too. I complained to Geico and since they're essentially a broker, they shopped around for a better rate and now I'm paying less than I did three years ago. Give them a call. Well worth the effort.
Mine has almost doubled,no claims new roof also.
Our rates have been up, up, up here in Florida.
Double, here. And property taxes are way up too. Half my mortgage payment just goes to escrows now.
We tend to shop for insurance every couple of years. Companies bump the rates every couple of years as customers get complacent. I'm not above calling them and telling them I have a better offer and will change companies if necessary. So far, it has kept State Farm in line.
Where do you live? You not having any claims is only part of the equation. Just as important is how many people in your area (or areas statistically similar) have had claims. But, yeah, insurance prices are up significantly while service has gone way down. We got stiffed out of an $18,000 roof by our insurance company last year, who ended up locking their doors and leaving Florida with a whole mess of people getting the shaft. Particularly in storm-affected aras, the big insurers won;t even touch us anymore and the little companies that come in are mostly glorified pump-and-dump scams.
Add that to the endless list of “things that tripled in price after 2020.” So many I can’t list them. I was living comfortably pre Covid. Now I make more and am living with less money.
One of my close friends writes policy for several states, and he has reiterated that with the increase in natural disasters and mass-loss claims across the US (hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, flash flooding, etc), homeowners insurance arms of all insurance companies have been running massive losses for the past 5 years... so rates are increasing nationwide to try and fill the gap, and are only going to go higher as the financial effects of climate change increase.
The next step is regional coverage termination altogether, which we are seeing in Florida, the gulf coast, and some areas in the midwest. I can't quote him, because privacy, but he basically told me to anticipate 15% annual increases for the forseeable future, and I live in New England, which is relatively insulated from typical natural disasters.
I'm on our HOA Board in Colorado. 118 townhome/condo units.
Our insurance was $97K in 2020. This year, it came in lower than expected at $535K.
Coverage is less in that we have significantly increased our deductible.
I've heard similar increases in single family homes here in Colorado, too. The biggest issue is, as golfduke says, the nationwide situation. Locally, our biggest property risks are hail damage to roofs and wildfire. The 2021 Marshall Fire destroyed 11% of the housing in two local towns within six hours - truly a firestorm with 100mph winds.
I did some quick mental math earlier this year when I was buying my garage policy.
If I took all the insurance payments I've made over the last 30 years and put them into a safe investment with reasonable returns, I'd have had enough money to more than cover any of the claims I've made, plus a quite a bit.
I had a come-to-Jesus conversation with my agent earlier this year. Discussing how I feel that I've been greatly oversold recently based on what I need and my claims history.
My rates improved a bit after that.
Scotty Con Queso said:Add that to the endless list of “things that tripled in price after 2020.” So many I can’t list them. I was living comfortably pre Covid. Now I make more and am living with less money.
It's as though you described, EXACTLY, my family's situation. Weird.
ShawnG said:I did some quick mental math earlier this year when I was buying my garage policy.
If I took all the insurance payments I've made over the last 30 years and put them into a safe investment with reasonable returns, I'd have had enough money to more than cover any of the claims I've made, plus a quite a bit.
You just figured out how insurance companies stay in business :)
golfduke said:One of my close friends writes policy for several states, and he has reiterated that with the increase in natural disasters and mass-loss claims across the US (hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, flash flooding, etc), homeowners insurance arms of all insurance companies have been running massive losses for the past 5 years... so rates are increasing nationwide to try and fill the gap, and are only going to go higher as the financial effects of climate change increase.
The next step is regional coverage termination altogether, which we are seeing in Florida, the gulf coast, and some areas in the midwest. I can't quote him, because privacy, but he basically told me to anticipate 15% annual increases for the forseeable future, and I live in New England, which is relatively insulated from typical natural disasters.
If that's the case it means the risk pools of the insurance companies are too small. End of story.
I really wonder where the breaking point is for most people, considering how expensive it has become just to exist.
For reference, my homeowners and car went up 25% last year and 25% this year, and I live in a seismically stable area, well outside a floodplain, and basically no chance of wildfire area in the northeast. It's basically become legal extortion at this point.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I understand that businesses need to make a profit.
It's a different thing when the insurance companies are posting record profits but crying poor when someone makes a claim.
Or, in the case of my former province, when the provincial government uses the government run insurance company as an ATM every time they need money because they pissed it away, then the insurance company says they have no money and jacks everyones rates up.
There's no possible way that my motorcycle should cost $1300 per year to insure when I've never had a claim, in Saskatchewan which is basically devoid of people and has nothing to run into but stray wildlife.
+1 for calling insurance. I'm sure homeowners is the same, but I know for auto insurance rates will go up at least 5% every renewal period and that's due to more frequent claims, and higher payouts (cost of cars rising, more injury claims etc)
I called my insurance and told them I was cancelling due to the amount, and I was on the phone for about an hour while they got info and such from me, but ultimately because of my tenure with the company (5 years) they wrote me a new policy and let me keep my status (confirmed on all their paperwork) and they cut my rate over 50%
My cabin went from $325 to $3600 in one year.
I had to drop it.
My homeowners insurance is basically the same as it has been since I bought my house in Sept 2017. Around $2100/yr for a 3/2/2 1815 sq ft.
But I also shop about every 18 months for HO insurance.........where I'm at you can only change HO policies every 12 months.
The0retical said:golfduke said:One of my close friends writes policy for several states, and he has reiterated that with the increase in natural disasters and mass-loss claims across the US (hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, flash flooding, etc), homeowners insurance arms of all insurance companies have been running massive losses for the past 5 years... so rates are increasing nationwide to try and fill the gap, and are only going to go higher as the financial effects of climate change increase.
The next step is regional coverage termination altogether, which we are seeing in Florida, the gulf coast, and some areas in the midwest. I can't quote him, because privacy, but he basically told me to anticipate 15% annual increases for the forseeable future, and I live in New England, which is relatively insulated from typical natural disasters.
If that's the case it means the risk pools of the insurance companies are too small. End of story.
I really wonder where the breaking point is for most people, considering how expensive it has become just to exist.
For reference, my homeowners and car went up 25% last year and 25% this year, and I live in a seismically stable area, well outside a floodplain, and basically no chance of wildfire area in the northeast. It's basically become legal extortion at this point.
I don't disagree with you at all. Homeowners risk pools are self-admittedly too small. What used to be an 8-9% loss margin 5 years ago is now 15-18, and even in high risk areas that isn't enough anymore. The times they are a changin'.
We see nationwide rate hikes because the underwriters are nationwide conglomerates, and typically will insulate profits from stable regions to subsidize the higher risk areas. The best bet would be to find/form smaller, more locally regional insurance carriers, but then they all get priced out of the market by the big boys... It's a crapshoot either way unfortunately.
For the record- I am absolutely not white-knighting insurance companies... I'm just saying that with the massive increase in claims in the last 5-7 years, policies that were once profitable are now major losses. Now the insurance companies need to reset the playbook, so to speak, which is why we're seeing massive rate hikes pretty much everywhere.
I'm not totally educated on the topic, but I'd bet within then next 5-10 years, there won't be any insurance providers that offer service to Coastal Florida. It's just too risky and too expensive to cover. Hell, our snowbird neighbor in NH owns a place in Fort Myers on the intracostals, and if Milton hits her, that'll be 3 hurricane rebuilds/claims in 3 years for her. That's simply unsustainable from an insurance perspective.
In reply to The0retical :
Alternate theory-the amount of risk from climate driven events (fires and floods mostly) has increased, possibly in ways the insurance companies can't quantify yet, and that increase has to be passed on to the customer.
In reply to ShawnG :
This is why wealthy people sometimes choose to self-insure, or insure with much, much higher deductible.
In reply to CrustyRedXpress :
Your alternate theory suggests that this could be only the tip of the iceberg, and that increases could get much, much worse.
golfduke said:The0retical said:golfduke said:One of my close friends writes policy for several states, and he has reiterated that with the increase in natural disasters and mass-loss claims across the US (hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, flash flooding, etc), homeowners insurance arms of all insurance companies have been running massive losses for the past 5 years... so rates are increasing nationwide to try and fill the gap, and are only going to go higher as the financial effects of climate change increase.
The next step is regional coverage termination altogether, which we are seeing in Florida, the gulf coast, and some areas in the midwest. I can't quote him, because privacy, but he basically told me to anticipate 15% annual increases for the forseeable future, and I live in New England, which is relatively insulated from typical natural disasters.
If that's the case it means the risk pools of the insurance companies are too small. End of story.
I really wonder where the breaking point is for most people, considering how expensive it has become just to exist.
For reference, my homeowners and car went up 25% last year and 25% this year, and I live in a seismically stable area, well outside a floodplain, and basically no chance of wildfire area in the northeast. It's basically become legal extortion at this point.
I don't disagree with you at all. Homeowners risk pools are self-admittedly too small. What used to be an 8-9% loss margin 5 years ago is now 15-18, and even in high risk areas that isn't enough anymore. The times they are a changin'.
We see nationwide rate hikes because the underwriters are nationwide conglomerates, and typically will insulate profits from stable regions to subsidize the higher risk areas. The best bet would be to find/form smaller, more locally regional insurance carriers, but then they all get priced out of the market by the big boys... It's a crapshoot either way unfortunately.
For the record- I am absolutely not white-knighting insurance companies... I'm just saying that with the massive increase in claims in the last 5-7 years, policies that were once profitable are now major losses. Now the insurance companies need to reset the playbook, so to speak, which is why we're seeing massive rate hikes pretty much everywhere.
I'm not totally educated on the topic, but I'd bet within then next 5-10 years, there won't be any insurance providers that offer service to Coastal Florida. It's just too risky and too expensive to cover. Hell, our snowbird neighbor in NH owns a place in Fort Myers on the intracostals, and if Milton hits her, that'll be 3 hurricane rebuilds/claims in 3 years for her. That's simply unsustainable from an insurance perspective.
I didn't mean to imply that you were. I was just stating that the only way to distribute risk is to grow the pool or only insure safe areas. The latter option is the only real option for for-profit entities, which is exactly as problematic as the old trick of denying coverage to "pre-existing conditions" in health insurance before it was made illegal.
We're already seeing the fallout from this in wildfire-prone UWI areas and hurricane-prone areas. Realistically the only way you can get certain types of insurance in those areas is through the insurer of last resort, aka the state. That effectively socializes the risk onto the entirety of the state's tax base and is backed by the federal government. I'm not saying that the insured shouldn't bear more financial responsibility for the choices they make. I'm just saying that for-profit has its limits because it can't easily balance the frequency and scale of disasters we've been seeing with its profit motivation.
My 1200 square foot house hasn't been under $1000 a year for at least a decade. My risks include burning it down, hail, or a tornado.
It's irritating that hurricane and riverside people cost me so much money.
In reply to The0retical :
I completely agree with you. It's one of, IMHO, many industry sectors that needs a complete overhaul because 'how it used to be' just isn't good enough anymore.
Just wait until next year after they calculate all the hurricane damage that has happened so far and the coming disaster of Milton.
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