Home Schooling

First off, let me say that if you home school, I'm not knocking you since I don't know you.
Second off, let me say "in before the lock"
On to the post. My whole life I've known people that home-schooled. In my experience, the most common reason for this decision was to avoid bad influences that you run into at school. I never thought that was a good reason since you will one day work with/for those same people, only now you'd have NO idea how to handle them since your little, insulated world is blown wide open. A few years ago a family member (in-law), decided to home school her daughter for the above reason. Now, this woman didn't complete high school herself so I (in my not-so-humble?) opinion thought that wasn't a good idea. It turned out that by third grade she decided to give up on home-schooling. Her daughter was a year behind and had a speech impediment that needed lots of work to overcome. The speech issue was due to lazy speech not being corrected. Now a friend of my wife has decided to home school her kindergartner because "8 o'clock is just too early to be up and out of bed". She had her third baby about 9 months ago and just can't see herself getting her oldest (5) ready to leave for school by 7:45. Really!! You're going to make a decision as huge as your children's education based on your unwillingness to get out of bed?
Some people can and do home school very successfully, others, not so much. I know a couple that home school and I am totally blown away by the high quality of education they are giving their kids. Just amazing. Teaching is a skill that most just don't possess, this woman does in spades.
I'm not looking for answers or to start an argument, I'm just venting. I can't vent to my wife because she wants to home school our kids but I won't let her.

I'll say it again because I'm sure some read it but forgot already . I'm not ripping on everyone that home schools. If you or your wife home schools your kids, I'm not passing judgement on you.

Second off, let me say "in before the lock"

When the OP says this, I'm tempted to make it happen. There'd by some humor in me locking the thread right now, but I'll hold off.

My next neighbor ( who is one real good looker btw) has home schooled four boys. The oldest went to public high school starting in the 9th grade and is scoring way above average.

My wife has 2 cousins that homeschooled until University and graduated in the top. I know some kids at church that can do their studies in 2 hours and balance it out by playing video games.

My 2 kids needed outside teachers to gain other perspectives on life. It works well for some, others not so well.

Only issue I've seen first hand is some lack of social skills.

DrBoost wrote: Some people can and do public school very successfully, others, not so much.

Fixed it for you.

Been home schooling for 18 years. There are good teachers and bad teachers in both home schools and public schools. The only difference is that the tenured public school bad teachers get the opportunity to screw up more kids!

I support your right to vent.

I know hundreds of home schoolers. I've been the president of the local association for a few years, involved with national groups for many years, and my wife has a home school related website. My experience is that there are an awful lot of people without the "training" or "resources" to do what they are doing, and doing it exceptionally well.

And yes, there are some folks screwing it up.

Everyone has anecdotal evidence of how poorly it works. The truth is those are the exception, not the rule. Nationally, they are really outperforming their public school counterparts. I am convinced that the 2% of the American student population that is currently being homeschooled will represent 10-15% of the corporate, political, and entrepreneurial leadership in our country in 20 years (just my opinion). EXCEPT in the writing fields, where we consistently fall behind (Science is an interesting field).

I will also agree with you that most people who home school begin doing it to avoid bad influences at school, and that it is a poor reason to home school. The good news on this is that while it remains the primary motivation for beginning home schooling, it becomes a very minor issue for those who continue homeschooling for an extended period.

Social skills?

It's Lord of the Flies out there until high school,

and then you know what happens when High School social skills stick with a person.

-James

We are looking at home schooling because our school district is awful (Dekalb County). Our local elementary ranks second from the bottom for the whole state. Frankly, my wife and I hate the "teach to the test" mentality of modern public schools. My wife was an elementary school teacher in a private school, so we have a head start at least on concepts, but for the most part the local home school groups in our area seem great.

If we had the money I'd put our kids in a nice private school, but until I win the lottery we decided that home schooling is our best option.

The home school groups in your area ARE great. We interact with them regularly. We would move there if we could to be involved more with them.

I didn't think your school system could possibly be worse than ours, but you are right. 2nd from the bottom out of 1161 schools rated. We are 3rd. Join the club.

I thought you were exaggerating, because we really excel at being E36 M3ty.

Another home schoolin' dad here (although major credit and props go to my wife since she does 98% of the work).

We've been doing it for about 8 yrs now; started going into my daughter's 4th grade year and been doing it ever since. Said daughter is now in HS and is taking college classes for a majority of her studies thru a program called CollegePlus. The "lack of socialization" line always cracks me up, what kind of positive socialization happens at school?! Well, it's too late for me to go down that path but I will agree most homeschool stereotypes exist for a reason, unfortunately.

SVreX wrote: I didn't think your school system could possibly be worse than ours, but you are right. 2nd from the bottom out of 1161 schools rated. We are 3rd. Join the club. I thought you were exaggerating, because we really excel at being E36 M3ty.

If there is one thing Dekalb County Schools does right, it's screwing up. Right now they are gutting the teaching positions so that everyone's cousin's can keep their jobs in the central office. It isn't a school system, it is a family jobs program. The most recent cut was Special Olympics, while we seem to need several "on-boarding secretaries" and multiple assistants to lower level admins. Stuffing kids into the classrooms, but at least their buddy kept their job at central office.

SVreX wrote: EXCEPT in the writing fields, where we consistently fall behind (Science is an interesting field).

Can you expand on this please?

Sure.

Homeschoolers don't do great on writing. They are voracious readers, and way above their level. From this, they pick up vast volumes of information when they are most impressionable, so their knowledge base is significant in history, and many other subjects. But methods of teaching writing involve methodical approaches, and accountability that looks too much like book reports or tests. Home school teachers hate anything that resembles a book report. Home school parents aren't so good at structure, and they miss the mark on this. After all, they got into home schooling initially in part because of their own rebelliousness, or independent spirit. Math is methodical too, but most homeschool teachers already know that they suck at math (or at least fear it), so they use a pre-packaged curriculum, which puts them on par with most public schools. Writing gets overlooked because they think a great vocabulary or knowledge base equates to a good education, but they frequently overlook the method.

Science is a mixed opportunity. Most homeschools lack the resources for good teaching of higher sciences or lab work, or indulge in limited scientific viewpoints (like Creationism, etc). However, homeschool students excel at logical/ critical thinking, and those with an inner passion for the sciences are often able to transition exceptionally well when they enter college, etc, even if it means rising above the shortcomings of their younger schooling.

Colleges are tripping over themselves to get home schooled students, so they are pretty good at working with the inherent shortcomings.

Yeah, those are stereotypes. YMMV

<- Unschooled until I started college and did fine there.

Still don't like getting up early.

I've seen it work well. I've seen it work not so well. I've seen it in the middle. Too many variables to put a blanket statement on it.

The kid I knew best was a sophomore in college at age 16 because of it, but he also did not know what common "things" meant. He would have been 100% normal if his mom hadn't banned TV.

first i'll say i'm glad that SVreX... I know he homeschooled his kiddos with great success and is a good resource on the subject

I grew up a military brat... I've known tons of homeschoolers over the years and still do... heck my sisters where both homeschooled at one point...

things can go VERY good or VERY bad...

I have cousins that are a prime example of the VERY VERY bad... they moved to KY because of the lack of regulation when it came to home schooling, my aunt is an idiot and don't know how she graduated HS... her oldest did well... only because he enjoyed learning, he's now in college and doing well... the next kid wasn't reading last I knew at 12 or 13 y/o... not sure if she can read now...

that being said I know MANY more VERY successful cases of homeschoolers... the best instance is my step-brother... he started his 9th grade last year in a public school (had been doing public all his life)... a few weeks in he was having health problems and missed a bit of school... teachers refused to work with him... he'd never done great in school, just enough to pass.... after the response of the teachers my step-mom and dad pulled him out and began to teach... it was intresting to watch my step-bro at first... the public schools hadn't tough him how to LEARN... just how to recall answers for a test... he's started learning how to learn for himself, he retains the information and has done very well.

I had other friends in HS that where homeschooled, I envied them, so much of the day was wasted in HS, teachers dealing with problem students, all the wasted time between classes, my friends studied for a few hrs a day and they where done... I had one friend that used a video program... THAT was awesome, I got to sit in a class or 2 with him for the fun of it, he was able to take interesting electives and be taught by a teacher who knew the subject well

on the other hand this doesn't take into account the bad public schools... I have some friends that lived in MS and moved to FL... their oldest daughter was in the 3rd or 4th grade at the time and doing very well in school by MS standards... when she moved she was tested and found that she was more then a year behind FL standards... I've seen this same crap first hand as a military brat moving from place to place... i'd be WAY ahead when we'd get to a place and behind at the next... (i'll mention that the DODD's (military schools) tended to be above average)

I'm sure there are lots of completely capable homeschooled folks out there.

However, one guy I used to work with was homeschooled and was the most socially retarded person I've ever met.

He seemed to be completely incapable of functioning as a normal human being during social interaction of any sort.

From my public school experience, grades 1 through 7 simply teach you how to interact with other kids and not get your ass kicked.

8 through 10 is where actual lessons get taught.

Elementary school taught me how to tie my shoes, how to throw the red rubber ball at the fat kid and not to call the big ugly kid in class a random expletive so he felt the need to beat me up.

Home schooling interests me because I've seen some of the curriculum from home schooling parents. I forgot about another friend of ours who seems to be doing it well. My wife really wants to try it but I'm totally against it. Here's why (and I'm very interested to hear Paul's response, as well as everyone else's). My wife has a hard time multi-tasking and tends to tune everything out except what she's working on. I see that as being a handicap when trying to school three kids in three different levels with three very different learning styles. When studying the bible with them, I can see how being a good educator is something that many people don't have (but I hear some of these curriculum's get around this?).
But here's the final reason. It seems like an experiment. You don't know if you are going to do well until you try, for a few years. If you aren't good at it, your kids pay the price. I am scared to allow my kids to be the litmus test that shows us that we are not right for it.

Your questions are absolutely common among new homeschoolers. We all have fears.

Let me answer your question with a question. Did you ask yourself if you would be a good parent before having kids? Were you confident you'd be good at it? Did you make your decisions based on whether or not you would scar your kids for life because of your inexperience at parenting?

Please don't be offended, but honestly, you are being a bit narcissistic.

Don't sweat it. Me too. I was the one who was completely opposed to it when my wife wanted to do it.

Regarding the multi-tasking, I will tell you the same thing I tell new homeschoolers when they ask me with great trepidation, "How am I gonna teach trigonometry??" My answer- he's 5. You don't have to. You will teach counting. While they are learning that, you will learn how to teach mathematics. Etc. etc. Similarly, your wife does not have to be a perfect teacher or multi-tasker from the start. She will start with what is needed, then learn better techniques and grow with the kids.

Also... Why is it her problem?? Where are you gonna be? Can't you augment what she can do? Shouldn't you help her learn how to multi-task better?

Yep, it's an experiment. Welcome to life. It's all an experiment. Every day I keep trying to do it better. What are you gonna do if the great public school experiment fails and screws up your kids? There sure are plenty who it has hurt. At least when home schooling, you have some influence and ability to keep trying new things and correct the path when things don't go well. Don't expect the public schools to do that for you. Sometimes we try a curriculum or technique that doesn't work so good. We change. Not too hard.

There is a core thing that happens for home schoolers that few people consider. Your kids get the message that you care. Instead of sending them off to the asylum we call "school", they see you investing in their lives every day. They see you helping them guide them through this scary experiment called life. Homeschooling is hard. They see you willing to work hard for them.

When we started homeschooling, we started with my 2nd child. She was a great learner, and my wife thought she'd be easier to start with. She was in 1st grade. My son was in 3rd. By the time we got near Christmas, my son came to my wife with tears in his eyes and asked, "Don't you love me?" She said of course, and asked why he asked. He said, "Then why won't you home school me too?"

We pulled him out immediately and never looked back.

You will never have a teacher that loves your kids as much as you do.

SVreX wrote: What are you gonna do if the great public school experiment fails and screws up your kids?

Quoted for emphasis.

Public schools tend to push kids to do thing they aren't good at adapting to change that isn't the result of a law suit or new laws. For instance, our local school board adopted a curriculum 3 years ago, and test scores are just now coming in. Turns out that the program is best if you really want to make your test scores plummet like a plane that looses its wings mid-flight. The extra fun thing is that this district tried it once before with the same results. When it comes to curriculums in public schools, it takes years for them to teach it to the students, test them for it, and see where the students place. With home schooling, you can pretty much abandon something that doesn't work as soon as you realize it's not working. In the situation this county is in, the teachers were able to show lower comprehension of the materials after just a few months.

Remember, in public schools, bureaucrats are the ones making the decisions about your child's education. That's why we need education reform.

On the other hand, there are skills that I don't have and still haven't really learned well because I was home schooled starting after 7th grade. I was able to pass all testing required by the state at 16, but don't ask me anything that I would have learned in the high level science and math classes I would have been in. I was always able to learn things on my own, but until I was about 20, I only really learned about just getting by. That's a damned hard habit to break. Whatever you do, make your kids accountable.

Most of the people I've met who were homeschooled have done very well academically, and are quite socially adept. The homeschool kids around here sound like intellectual geniuses compared to kids coming out of public schools. Therefore, I think homeschooling (whether individual parents or co-ops) seems to work more effectively than the public school system.

Then again, there are situations where it's better to send a kid to school rather than homeschool. I'd question my own ability to teach at all. I never had trouble understanding things at school, and I often have difficulty explaining concepts to people without a similar background. I feel like if I tried to teach basic algebra, I'd be unable to articulate the concept in a way that the kid could understand.

Plus, I feel like the socialization aspect is sort of a red herring. There are plenty of people who went through traditional schooling and still are awkward social retards. Neither method of schooling will guarantee either awkwardness or social ability. There's much more at play there than number of people someone interacts with on a day-to-day basis.

I hold an opinion on this subject - which has changed from a position I used to hold more strongly but neither one matters a lick. Only what I choose for my own kids is any of my business.

In the America I want to live in, they are your kids. You can do whatever you see fit to prepare them to live successfully in this world. They are your experiment (re: The great public school experiment comment).

If you are able to raise smart, capable, intelligent adults or if you teach them all of your own ignorance and misconception, unintentionally or otherwise.... it is none of my business.

Before public schools, people pooled money and hired a teacher to come to their community and provide instruction, good or otherwise. By the interview process alone they dictated what was important for the kids to learn. I see home schooling as a really small one of those types of environments. I moved to a school district with a fantastic success rate - so I also made a choice.

YMMV.

I was homeschooled 1st through 8th grade.

If I ever have kids I will never put them through that.

We currently home-school because I was the kid in class who was always ahead and getting in trouble. My wife has a special ed sister and was sent to her special ed classes instead of learning anything herself. Her high school math class was with her special ed sister learning 3rd grade level math.

The couple who inspired us to home-school were both home-schooled and had very different experiences as kids. They intend to home-school their child when she reaches that age.

I suppose wacko parents will produce wacko kids. And negligent parents will generally produce ineffectual children. And parents who work with their kids after school will get similar results to home-schooled kids.

The logic we followed was that 2 mediocre teachers teaching 4 kids will produce better results better results than 1 excellent teacher teaching 35 kids which is our current class size