How do people afford it?

HiTempguy wrote: For me to even BEGIN to think about paying someone to do all the maintenance/repair on a car, I'd have to be earning a minimum of $60k per year and be debt free.

Let me just say, I make that several times over. And it boggles my mind too. I have a long rant about cars. The marketing guys have duped Americans into believing it's a "normal" state of affairs to never actually own a car. If you think about it, it's a little insane. But there are a world of people for whom "car payment" is just a fact of life, forever.

What's amazing is that cars are much, much (by an order of magnitude) better than they have ever been. I recall thinking in the early 90s that my '84 Celica was about all anyone would ever need in a car. Now that I have another- I still agree with my younger self. EFI was a huge leap forward. But I can do without pretty much every "advancement" since. I've never had a serious accident so my view of airbags may be skewed. But other than that, what have we really gotten in the last 30 years? Sat nav, ABS, 142 air bags etc? I can do without it all. EFI has gotten better, and that's great. But a 2300 lb. car with 130 or so HP would work as well now as it did in the 80s. Too bad nobody makes one. And even more bad that everyone has some misguided idea that they need more, often at the cost of their financial security.

A Mazda2 is 2200 lbs and has 100 hp; it seats four just fine. I bet they'll put a 150+ hp engine in it sometime soon.

HiTempguy wrote: Just thinking of a new $50k car and comprehensive makes my heart race. As someone stated, that's $2k NET dollars for ONE vehicle. Presumably there are two in most households. $60k per year gross works out to ~$40 to $45k net here. So, uh, in a year have your income went to that new car. There just AREN'T that many people earning close to $100k

shrug $100K is below average here.

And it doesn't matter. People earning <$60k aren't buying $50k cars (or they are in debt). They are buying $20-30k cars and can afford to pay to have them maintained. Say roughly $700 a month. @ 45k net, thats < 20% of one's income to acquire and maintain their transportation. Doesn't seem too outrageous.

I do 90% of my own work, but there are certainly times when I'm like "berkeley this" and take it to a shop. Weekends and spare time is valuable. You only live once, you can't take the money with you, why spend your time under a rusty E36 M3 bucket if it isn't FUN?

Yeah I am trying to figure out how people afford to spend the amount of money they do. I mean look at the prices of trucks especially the big ones. Yet they are everywhere down here. I am making a fairly decent salary and I have no idea how people afford those vehicles.

Strizzo wrote: Just yesterday I was quoted 60 bucks to replace two burned out light bulbs that were found during my state inspection. I said no thanks, and fixed them myself for 5 bucks and went back.

It's funny how those bulbs always seem to burn out right before you get to the shop [/ironic]

Inspections are a huge racket. I've never had an inspection shop tell me something that surprised me. Probably because I know my car better than they do. Are there people on the road driving cars they shouldn't? Oh yea. But I'm not one of them. And, as always, we're stuck paying for other idiot's mistakes and bad judgement.

None of the guys I work with do any of their own car maintenance. I think this is pretty common in suburbia.

Of coarse my other problem with new cars is I see the price and say to myself I could by "insert classic car here" for that price. I look at the new Fiat 500 and say I could buy a TR6 for that.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

Yeah, but for a daily driving, reliable car, most new cars will beat older cars, hands down. Notice I said most, so yes, I am aware of the exceptions, having owned one or two myself.

Good news! NC is thinking of doing away with inspections.

I just made an appointment for my 2004 Civic for a timing belt/water pump service. I don't have enough know-how to do something like that and it's the lifeblood of a Honda. Somethings I just don't want to mess with. I wish I knew more about being a mechanic. Maybe I should just buy an old beater and go to town on it and learn more. As far as the Honda, it's got almost 100,000 and this is the first time I ever had to put money into it other than a set of tires and brake pads. The Honda dealer quoted me $585 to change the timing belt, water pump, drive belt, and coolant.

Fletch1 wrote: this is the first time I ever had to put money into it other than a set of tires and brake pads. The Honda dealer quoted me $585 to change the timing belt, water pump, drive belt, and coolant.

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU AFFORD THIS?!? YOU MUST BE MAKING A FORTUNE OR IN INCREDIBLE AMOUNTS OF DEBT!

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Ironically, I believe I enjoy my cars more than people who spend eleventy-billion dollars on one.

/thread

ProDarwin wrote:

Fletch1 wrote: this is the first time I ever had to put money into it other than a set of tires and brake pads. The Honda dealer quoted me $585 to change the timing belt, water pump, drive belt, and coolant.

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU AFFORD THIS?!? YOU MUST BE MAKING A FORTUNE OR IN INCREDIBLE AMOUNTS OF DEBT!

What you did there, I see it.

In reply to ProDarwin:

I'M BROKE!!! HeHe. Other than oil changes and some other fluid changes, I think my average maintenance cost for this car is like a nickel a month. Best DD I've had.

I'm the original poster. I guess I'm a bit out of touch when it comes to the cost of car repairs. The last time I took a car to a shop was when the transmission failed on my Wife's car. That was about 8 years ago and I just couldn't be bothered doing the work myself. So I do understand the time vs cost argument. I wasn't making a statement about the fairness or honesty of the shop just the incredible numbers that my co-workers were throwing out. None of the cars in question were older 2006 and the repairs were all considered normal wear. I see a $4000 repair bill and think "that's MGB driver money". I think alot of my co-workers don't get the fact that I'm a car guy but I hate spending money on cars that I drive every day. I pile about 50k a year on my DD and I just don't see spending big money on something that I'm going to drive into the ground in a few years. We do get a decent monthly car allowance so I could be driving something alot nicer but I just can't bring myself to spend $50 or $60k on a depriciating asset. One of the guys, involved in the discussion, just bought himself a M1. He let me take it for a drive and I have to admit it's a really nice car but he puts the same kind of milage on his car that I put on mine.

I was raised in a house where I never saw a repairman. If something broke my Dad fixed it and I was the designated helper. I guess this has stuck with me since I'm the same way. We have a small farm and I'd go broke if I had to pay someone everytime a horse broke something.

In reply to Wayslow:

I know where you're coming from. Sometime's I wonder how people do it too. But, to each his own I guess. I do admire your old school hands on approach. My dad is smart as a whip and I learned alot from him. One thing he never got into though was cars. He was a self made business man and a pastor. I guess he never had time. That I guess rubbed off on me. Not having the knowledge to fix my car and just having someone else do it.

ProDarwin wrote:

Fletch1 wrote: this is the first time I ever had to put money into it other than a set of tires and brake pads. The Honda dealer quoted me $585 to change the timing belt, water pump, drive belt, and coolant.

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU AFFORD THIS?!? YOU MUST BE MAKING A FORTUNE OR IN INCREDIBLE AMOUNTS OF DEBT!

600 bucks is a hell of a lot cheaper than the alternative if the TB breaks, no?

Maybe getting slightly OT here, but I couldn't leave this one alone.

mguar wrote: Think things through the other way. Any car dealership seldom makes a profit on the new cars they sell. Profit comes from selling used cars, parts, & service. -- Here's the part few would believe until they work inside a dealership. New cars are frequently sold below what they cost! In a given year the dealership celebrates if they break even selling new cars.. -- So a dealership needs to make money to keep the doors open.. they can't do it selling new cars so they make it up in the service department.

Sounds like a problem with the way they've designed their industry and not a reason to bend me over when I want a bit of work done. This info makes a lot of sense in context with the maintenance quotes I've gotten from dealerships, and subsequently why I don't come back. I don't mind paying for good work, but I don't feel it's my role to subsidize other non-profitable parts of their business. Especially when I can go to my local independent shop, sans-markup. Sometimes it amazes me they stay in business at all.

Let me just say I have friends who work as techs and service-writers in dealerships and while I have a lot of respect for their knowledge and work they do, I don't envy their position. Dealership work seems largely thankless and sometimes downright shady. I just wish we could find a better way to do business for everybody.

In reply to Strizzo:

Yes sir it is. My thinking exactly.

Lots of people don't think of taking a car anywhere except to the dealer for repairs. In my not-so-large city, there are a number of shops staffed by honest, decent gearheads who know the models they work on and don't try to rob their customers. You can find them by word of mouth, meaning you ask people who drive cars like yours. I had a new radiator put in the '97 Accord this summer. The part was $98 and the labor was about $50. I wonder what the average dealer would have charged for that job.

In reply to chuckles:

I know a man who's a really good mechanic and does some work for me. I debated on having him do my timing belt/water pump on my Honda rather than the dealer. It's not too often I go to a dealer. What I can do I do myself.

A friend of mine works at one of those shops for pennies. He talks about how people come in and drop Gs on simple things we do in the driveway. The cost of the product is a mere fraction of what they charge.

Then again some Caddy driver came in with the tire dummy light on due to pressure exceeding 90 lbs. Thats whoa dropping all the scrilla.

chuckles wrote: Lots of people don't think of taking a car anywhere except to the dealer for repairs.

One of my friends, who is an otherwise smart guy, does this all the time, and every time they send him one of those "reminder" postcards, too.

I don't blame him at all for deciding to have someone else fix his car, but he is absolutely the textbook sucker that dealers apparently depend upon to survive.

I just called a guy (mechanic) me and my family kinda knows. His dad started this Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge dealership right down the road from me decades ago. When the goverment stepped in a few years ago they lost their "new car" dealership, but know sell used stuff. I asked if he did timing belt's for Honda and he said no. He said the Honda dealers quoted I was given was actually not too bad. It seems he stays away from foreign cars.

Strizzo wrote: 600 bucks is a hell of a lot cheaper than the alternative if the TB breaks, no?

It was sarcasm. $600 in "major" maintenance for 100k miles is pretty much nothing.

Matt B wrote: . Especially when I can go to my local independent shop, sans-markup. Sometimes it amazes me they stay in business at all.

Actually, it's not uncommon for small businesses to struggle because their hourly rates and markups are too low. They'll find themselves working crazy hours just to keep the doors open, let alone make a profit.