In reply to The_Jed :
Would your children be able to stay with Grandma or someone like that while you- Drove a truck, worked on a river boat, worked on an oil rig, worked on an offshore supply vessel? Great ways to pile up cash with no need for a car or for that matter, a house.
The_Jed said:I have a $30 flip phone that costs $30 per month. The kids' phones are $100 per month (old phones). I only use free streaming services; Tubi, Youtube, etc., no cable. I don't eat out or smoke or drink. I have a gym membership- $35/month. I don't have any credit cards. I've been living like this for a very long time and plan to continue doing so. My internet (at the moment) is $35 per month. Car insurance is just under $300 per month (will be investigating that). Utilities are usually just under $200/mo. Water is around $70/mo. The med bills have been paid down to 700-ish. The attorney is well into four digits. I bring home about $3,400 per month. I should be slowly rising up but stuff keeps breaking. Lately I've just been wondering if it's like this for everyone, is it really supposed to be this difficult?
I'm constantly shooting off apps for public sector jobs; I had an online interview a few days ago. Everything from the state, county, or city that I'm qualified for gets an app. Most fed jobs I've found require a degree. I've applied for several internal positions where I work but, I can't get an interview.
Sounds like you're doing all the right things, but perhaps it's time to do those right thing somewhere else? Where are you located at?
From my quick math, I see $1090 (including the 400 mortgage and 430 car payment mentioned up thread) - xxxx attorney fees, which is leaving less than $90 per month to feed, clothe, basics 3 people in today's food & clothing market, that's damned tough. That just doesn't seem possible to me.
3400*12 is $40,800, or ~$19.61/hr.
I haven't made $40k a year since 2005 or 6. That's damned tough. I mean, all the saving & scrimping in the world won't help in the monthly income is less than monthly expenditures, and it sounds like you've already been living in survival mode for years.
Again, I don't know where in the US you're located, so I just searched locally on Indeed.com for "Machine Maintenance" (since that sounds like what you're doing at the steel mill?). It looks like industrial maintenance techs up here in North East CT are starting at $30/hr which is $62,000/yr. Salaries listed at a quick search show upwards of $40 ($83,000).
Assuming the same math at $30/hr, now, you should have $5,200/mo. That gives you an extra $1800/mo. You put $580 into a RothIRA to max it out ($7000/yr), that'll leave you $1220 to live, have a bit of fun and agressively pay off your debts. Dump the rest into an index fund. If you start playing the Roth game now, you'll end up at 65 having invested $155,000, but having made $133,000 by the time you reach 65 (according to this calculator). Not a ton, but a good start on retirement at least!
WonkoTheSane said:The_Jed said:I have a $30 flip phone that costs $30 per month. The kids' phones are $100 per month (old phones). I only use free streaming services; Tubi, Youtube, etc., no cable. I don't eat out or smoke or drink. I have a gym membership- $35/month. I don't have any credit cards. I've been living like this for a very long time and plan to continue doing so. My internet (at the moment) is $35 per month. Car insurance is just under $300 per month (will be investigating that). Utilities are usually just under $200/mo. Water is around $70/mo. The med bills have been paid down to 700-ish. The attorney is well into four digits. I bring home about $3,400 per month. I should be slowly rising up but stuff keeps breaking. Lately I've just been wondering if it's like this for everyone, is it really supposed to be this difficult?
I'm constantly shooting off apps for public sector jobs; I had an online interview a few days ago. Everything from the state, county, or city that I'm qualified for gets an app. Most fed jobs I've found require a degree. I've applied for several internal positions where I work but, I can't get an interview.Sounds like you're doing all the right things, but perhaps it's time to do those right thing somewhere else? Where are you located at?
From my quick math, I see $1090 (including the 400 mortgage and 430 car payment mentioned up thread) - xxxx attorney fees, which is leaving less than $90 per month to feed, clothe, basics 3 people in today's food & clothing market, that's damned tough. That just doesn't seem possible to me.
3400*12 is $40,800, or ~$19.61/hr.
I haven't made $40k a year since 2005 or 6. That's damned tough. I mean, all the saving & scrimping in the world won't help in the monthly income is less than monthly expenditures, and it sounds like you've already been living in survival mode for years.
Again, I don't know where in the US you're located, so I just searched locally on Indeed.com for "Machine Maintenance" (since that sounds like what you're doing at the steel mill?). It looks like industrial maintenance techs up here in North East CT are starting at $30/hr which is $62,000/yr. Salaries listed at a quick search show upwards of $40 ($83,000).
Assuming the same math at $30/hr, now, you should have $5,200/mo. That gives you an extra $1800/mo. You put $580 into a RothIRA to max it out ($7000/yr), that'll leave you $1220 to live, have a bit of fun and agressively pay off your debts. Dump the rest into an index fund. If you start playing the Roth game now, you'll end up at 65 having invested $155,000, but having made $133,000 by the time you reach 65 (according to this calculator). Not a ton, but a good start on retirement at least!
He said he takes home $3400/month. So I'm assuming that is after any payroll taxes/deductions, not before.
And your 2nd example, again you aren't removing any payroll taxes or anything.
In reply to The_Jed :
Im not suggesting seeking handouts but just like every stereotypical millionaire who works the system for tax breaks and shelters... Are you maxing out on all you can get?
Do you qualify for food stamps? Again, I'm not saying to take it as a hand-out but like the millionaire mindset, if you can save a dollar there then you can use the dollar somewhere else.
Free school lunch program for the kids?
Local food bank or food drives? I'm not talking soup kitchen meals but rather around here a few times a month you get your car in line and they hand out a few boxes. Often frozen meats, paper products, soaps, 10lbs of potatoes, other staples, etc. Again, if you can save a dollar there, you can possibly really save a dollar towards something else.
Sorry for the confusion, the attorney fees are what has been paid thus far, not a monthly payment. The med bills are what's left at the moment. I just got another EOB so, there's more on the way. I'll break it down better when I get back home, I'm on my break at work.
There are no grandparents aunts/uncles, etc. in their lives to the extent that the kids could stay with them, it's just us three.
z31maniac said:WonkoTheSane said:The_Jed said:I have a $30 flip phone that costs $30 per month. The kids' phones are $100 per month (old phones). I only use free streaming services; Tubi, Youtube, etc., no cable. I don't eat out or smoke or drink. I have a gym membership- $35/month. I don't have any credit cards. I've been living like this for a very long time and plan to continue doing so. My internet (at the moment) is $35 per month. Car insurance is just under $300 per month (will be investigating that). Utilities are usually just under $200/mo. Water is around $70/mo. The med bills have been paid down to 700-ish. The attorney is well into four digits. I bring home about $3,400 per month. I should be slowly rising up but stuff keeps breaking. Lately I've just been wondering if it's like this for everyone, is it really supposed to be this difficult?
I'm constantly shooting off apps for public sector jobs; I had an online interview a few days ago. Everything from the state, county, or city that I'm qualified for gets an app. Most fed jobs I've found require a degree. I've applied for several internal positions where I work but, I can't get an interview.Sounds like you're doing all the right things, but perhaps it's time to do those right thing somewhere else? Where are you located at?
From my quick math, I see $1090 (including the 400 mortgage and 430 car payment mentioned up thread) - xxxx attorney fees, which is leaving less than $90 per month to feed, clothe, basics 3 people in today's food & clothing market, that's damned tough. That just doesn't seem possible to me.
3400*12 is $40,800, or ~$19.61/hr.
I haven't made $40k a year since 2005 or 6. That's damned tough. I mean, all the saving & scrimping in the world won't help in the monthly income is less than monthly expenditures, and it sounds like you've already been living in survival mode for years.
Again, I don't know where in the US you're located, so I just searched locally on Indeed.com for "Machine Maintenance" (since that sounds like what you're doing at the steel mill?). It looks like industrial maintenance techs up here in North East CT are starting at $30/hr which is $62,000/yr. Salaries listed at a quick search show upwards of $40 ($83,000).
Assuming the same math at $30/hr, now, you should have $5,200/mo. That gives you an extra $1800/mo. You put $580 into a RothIRA to max it out ($7000/yr), that'll leave you $1220 to live, have a bit of fun and agressively pay off your debts. Dump the rest into an index fund. If you start playing the Roth game now, you'll end up at 65 having invested $155,000, but having made $133,000 by the time you reach 65 (according to this calculator). Not a ton, but a good start on retirement at least!
He said he takes home $3400/month. So I'm assuming that is after any payroll taxes/deductions, not before.
And your 2nd example, again you aren't removing any payroll taxes or anything.
Good call... Bad math on my part there!
In reply to The_Jed :
Sounds like you have been through a sucktastick bad patch but you came out the far side with your integrity, your sanity and the best part uf your family.That is a remarkable accomplishment under the current economic circumstances. It may not feel like it but you are crushing it.I can't offer much but I know you are a fighter,use that spirit to focus one on one problem at a time, kick its ass and move on to the next one. Your a good person hang in there!
1). Don't berkeleying quit.
2). comparison is the thief of joy. Stop it. It berkeleys with my mental health and it berkeleys with yours. Ain't worth your time
3) concentrate on making on thing better. Then the next thing. Then the next. Don't do everything all at once.
To answer your questions as posted in the title in reference, sounds like higher salary and no, you're doing great with what you have and even asking this is an example of outsourcing technical problem solving. You've done so well and asking for help is doing what is helpful, that's to be admired. You don't have any obvious bad habits and are already very frugal. Getting out of the exs mortgage on upcoming foreclosure would be biggest issue but sounds like legal fees fighting that haven't been helpful. Kids should qualify for assistance so sign up for everything you can. Try for any government or state job or I know delivery drivers get paid well at the top if you can work your way in. If you're kids have a local college they want to go to if you can do anything there they might get a discount also.
In reply to The_Jed :
It's not just you, I don't understand how random-ass yahoos make ordinary 1st-worlder money. The only time I made ordinary 1st-worlder money was in a 3-year period where I worked myself half to death at a hellish job. From my previous job it felt like I was working 4~10x as hard for 2x the money.
I saved up a decent bit of money from that but then lost it on starting a business that failed (if I'm lucky I might get most of that back later this year if I can sell it), crashing my Toyobaru into a concrete pillar (which I still haven't resolved, and it looks like E36 M3's gonna get real with that project soon), and just basic living expenses while not being able to find any job since I started looking for jobs at full speed after the pillar incident in May. I've applied for dozens of jobs, almost all of which I was fully qualified for, and all I've got out of it is a few rejection letters and lots of silence. These days I'm doing gig work which only slows the rate at which I lose money and is probably destroying my body...at least that's sure how it feels over the course of a day.
1: are you on www.usajobs.gov? That's the only place to go to look for government jobs. I work for the VA and we always need maintenance people.
2. You were in the military and had medical issues. Do you have a service connected disability rating? PTSD, tinnitus, sleep apnea, IBS, ED, and many many more things can be linked to a service connected disability. Go talk to the DAV and ask for help applying. I know dudes who appear perfectly fine getting 90-100%. And let me tell you, 100% is a GAME CHANGER. Your kids get free education, you get free health care, and your compensation is tax free. It's the fast forward to retirement button (I'm working on mine now).
3: You aren't responsible to pay for your kids schooling. If you can, great but it isn't your responsibility. My son is in the AirForce (super duper recommend this for young people) and my daughter goes to a free college (they exist). Help them out where you can but you have to take care of you.
4: If you're raising the kids, is the ex helping? If not, why not. That's part of the social contract.
Good luck, it's goddamned hard. My divorce punched a $500,000 hole in my lifetime earnings and took me a decade to crawl out of. I'll never be on the same financial path I was but I'll do the best I can.
It always makes me feel bad admitting that I climbed from pillars built by family that came before me. It's not to say that I didn't work for my successes, but it did afford me the ability to focus my efforts.
One thing I will say is to remember that pretty much everyone only allows the best version of their story to show. We all give the highlight reel, not the ugly parts and not the help we had along the way.
I have a family member that turned 7 figures of assets into foreclosure on two houses and a bankruptcy and isn't capable of improving their situation. You are far far far better than them at life.
I don't have any answers better than those already suggested. The only thing I can add is that the best approach I have found to job hunting is networking. I got my first career job after a 9 month period where my job was job hunting. 450+ applications with only one interview that didn't pan out (yea graduating in the great recession). The job I wound up getting was through a personal contact, not an online application, even then I got paid poorly for several years having to use that job as a stepping stone to a better one that I was able to climb over time.
I could tell my story, I had some sub-optimal situations, but nothing like you are fighting. I could give examples, but they would be trite next to what you have already been through and survived.
I'm just trying to say your treading water likely represents better swimming than my success or that of my peers.
My path was as simple as make a plan, stick to that plan unless you find one you know is better. Keep pulling to that plan. Mine didn't get derailed by life as badly as yours and I had a family safety net.
I wish I had a magic answer. You aren't failing, you are just fighting a harder fight than most and it impresses me. Don't be down on yourself.
I can only tell you what worked for me. Not going to dissect your life to this point.
No degree. Didn't know what I wanted to do. What I did do was started working while in junior high and never stopped. Newspaper delivery. Auto parts counterperson. Dealership parts counterperson. Body shop estimator (That was a lucky hire. They trained me.). Insurance adjuster. I just kept changing jobs every time a better one came along, or when I got downsized (twice). I made sure I was a) good at what I did, whatever it was and 2) people liked me. That second one sounds simplistic, but I never was the guy who caused trouble or complained constantly...at least not where they could hear me. So I always got good references.
Outside of jobs, I hardly ever borrowed money. Mortgage. Only about four cars between the two of us in 30 years. And when I did borrow, it was always to buy something far less than our credit allowed. Never spent more than $14k on a vehicle, and that was the most recent one. Everything prior was under ten grand. LOTS were paid for with cash and were a few thousand. Dependable, but not sexy. High miles, but well maintained. As Ramsey says, "Live like no one else, so someday you can live like no one else."
So today, with no college degree, one marriage/no divorce (which is mostly luck, I'll admit), no kids (a regret) I have a nice paid-for home, four motorcycles and four vehicles. Only the wife's car has a note, and we're slaying that way ahead of the payment schedule. 401k is well funded. And the bulk of that is from not spending money I didn't have. That is the biggest key to success, along with constantly striving to improve my income. And I don't make six figures.
For you, I'd make improving my job a full time pursuit. Don't get married again, or make any more babies. Buy a reliable clunker and stop borrowing money to buy vehicles. Tell the kids they need to figure out their own college, or they can go to a trade school (and probably make more when they are done). They can always go to college later in life if they really want to...possibly with assistance from an employer!
#1. Hang in there. You are doing just fine.
There are some great suggestions here. The only thing I'll recommend is to make sure you are taking advantage of all of the programs out there. Military benefits, Social benefits, Etc. They are there to use and don't be too proud to do so.
From my life, my sister is not much better than your situation minus the medical bills. Her kids all got need based scholarships which they all took advantage of. They will all graduate with little to no debt. Make sure the kids are looking at in-state schools and fill out the FAFSA to determine what they are eligible. I bet you will be surprised.
and yes, even us "successful" people still get E36 M3 thrown at us almost always.
From your last couple of posts, it sounds like you're already trying to optimize your spending. If medical or legal bills are derailing the rest of a decent budget, then make those a priority. A job with good insurance is worth a lot more to someone with medical issues than to a healthy 25 year old.
I wanted to comment about the kids and college, which I see others addressing: you are not in a position to pay their college expenses. If they're motivated and working hard, they'll find a way to get there. If not, it's better that you don't waste money on unfinished or failed programs.
The plus side is this: I have friends who couldn't send their kids to college, the kids knew it, they prepared, they got scholarships or chose non college routes, they're doing great!
The flip side: I have other friends who have college educated 30 something year olds who live at home and work something like pizza delivery, when they work.
Money won't fix lack of motivation.
The_Jed said:I'd say roughly 100% of you guys are more successful than me.
Nope. Now there are some VERY well off folks on here, that spend more on there play cars, every month than we make, and some of them probably even think they are poor!
But you've definitely got company here!
my dad was poor, as far as income level. But we lived ok, 'cause hey taught us all how to get by with less.
Bills were paid first, and on time - a late fee would have put him over budget
No way he could have paid for collage for my sister or me. She paid for her own classes, and I served an Apprenticeship. Dispite social media telling us "you have to send your kids to collage", it just ain't so.
I had done pretty well, at not living beyond my means, but never saved anything as a single man. My wife was left with a mortgage, no craft or degree, and $15 in the bank, but worked 4 jobs (as much as 110 hrs/week - fortunately, he waited till their kids were grown) and followed Dave Ramsey.
Things were looking pretty good for a bit after we married in 08. Unfortunately, due to how much "better" the economy is doing (so they tell us) , my yearly pay is 20% LESS than then, and healthcare for just me and her is about 600% higher.
Short story, I'm 20 years older, no divorce and no kids, and this is still the brokest (I know, not a word) I've ever been in my life. I'll likely die at work will tools in my hands.
It sucks. But don't feel lonesome.
Despit all this , I can offer no advice on how not to feel down about it. Except "Don't let it get you down. Just keep chipping away at it"
Doesnt give you much help, but there it is.
And others here have all given good thoughts.
As Red Green said"we're pullin' for ya"
My $0.02,
You are doing great! The person who talked about comparison sucking joy is completely correct, but that doesn't make the pain and struggle any less exhausting. I grew up constantly hearing "we can't afford that," never took a vacation except to museums, battlefields, parks, and grandparents houses, learned to be handy, eat what I could find, and grow my own food. I made more starting in 2011 than I ever dreamed of, and far more than my parents made growing up and feel like I have a complete abundance of goods and materials. My wife feels like we are scraping by because she grew up in the 1%, and constantly is talking about how she doesn't know how anyone makes ends meet. Our combined income is almost $200K, and we living in a moderate cost of living area.
3 thoughts for you:
1. Kids college is not something for you to worry about. Military, trades (you can be a paid while learning to be an electrician, as an example), scholarships. Just don't let them take out loans!
2. There are no scholarships for retirement (or medical issues). Your body wil break down eventually, and our country won't take care of you. Save for that time!
3. Raising your income is the biggest way to improve your situation. You may need to relocate for that. It is very hard to find people who can pass a drug test, will show up on time, and work hard. You have skills that are valued, but are not working in a place that compensates for them. Change that.
(As an educator, thanks for being a good parents and sticking with your kids!)
KyAllroad said:1: are you on www.usajobs.gov? That's the only place to go to look for government jobs. I work for the VA and we always need maintenance people.
2. You were in the military and had medical issues. Do you have a service connected disability rating? PTSD, tinnitus, sleep apnea, IBS, ED, and many many more things can be linked to a service connected disability. Go talk to the DAV and ask for help applying. I know dudes who appear perfectly fine getting 90-100%. And let me tell you, 100% is a GAME CHANGER. Your kids get free education, you get free health care, and your compensation is tax free. It's the fast forward to retirement button (I'm working on mine now).
I wanted to circle back to this, I work for the Fed as well.
As long as your discharge was honorable, you get a major leg up on most USAJOBS listings. Meaning, on some listings as long as a veteran applies, we MUST consider them if they are qualified BEFORE we can consider a non veteran.
If you are a disabled veteran, you jump to the front of the line of veterans similarly.
At least that's how it was for us. There are exceptions for high skill positions (requires engineering degree, etc), but most jobs...
You've certainly been dealt a series of E36 M3ty hands, but you do have a lot to be proud of the very real accomplishments you've made along the way... Even if it might not feel like it.
Have you considered talking to the academic advisors at a local technical college for yourself, to perhaps get into a more lucrative field of work? The cost is low, the ROI is high, many have working-student friendly class schedules available, and there may even be programs that could help pay for yours too. My wife worked that job for years, helping many people in similarly bad-handed situations get on to a new track in life... Often coming out into jobs paying more than hers did.
To beat the college dead horse, you're not in a position to help fund your kids' college. At all. If they don't know already, that conversation needs to happen yesterday. Be honest and transparent, and make sure they understand that not being able to help financially does not mean not wanting to help or not being able to help in every other way you can.
What you are in a position to do is help them figure out what choices they have, and help guide them through making the best of those choices. This means applying for and figuring out how much financial aid they're eligible for, and making sure they understand that taking on debt for it should absolutely be minimized at all cost. It never hurts to apply. Whether it's for financial aid or to schools they can't afford without the school providing said aid. Just be ready to be adaptable and don't get too set on any one path. If they can't get enough of financial aid directly, there are lots of other options to do it for less. Community college transfer to university, ROTC, and trade/tech schools if they don't have a compelling motivation to chase a bachelors required career path... Which is something they really should to give due consideration too.
Also, I know it's a nit-picky thing out of everything you said, but $100/mo for 2 lines is way too much. Take their phones to a different (MVNO) phone plan ASAP. Hopefully you're not stuck in an active contract. This is a part they can play in the family finances too. Most places I know of these days that people generally spend any length of time while having reason to use data (home, friends homes, business establishments) also have free wifi available. Tello has 2GB/mo for $10, 5GB/mo for $14, and 10GB/mo for $19/mo, never mind the unlimited plans are $25/mo. Completely splurging, the service should be $50/mo combined, and honestly, I believe there are few reasons most people should need more than wifi+5GB/mo for personal use. I use plenty of data, but simply by being a little conscientious about it, I have been on a 2GB/mo plan for years without issue. So that could be an instant $70+/mo ($840+/yr) cash savings. No, it's not life changing. But when every little bit counts, it's not nothing either.
Regarding college;
Six kids in my family went the first 2 years at our local community college while working and paying for it. My older sister worked three part time jobs to make it happen.
My dad helped pay some of the rest as I commuted to local universities in Chicago. Only four of us got Bachelor degrees and two commuted while the other two went away for their last 2 years.
I took a full time job in March and finished via night classes while graduating the next May. If there's a will your kids will find a way.
Really you aren't doing badly with what money you have, don't feel bad about that at all. Seriously, you seem to be making smart financial decisions. The van is a bigger investment but not anywhere near bad.
Boiled down there are 2 ways to financial freedom/happiness: spend less money, or make more money. You've mastered the first part so let's hammer the 2nd part.
If you are making a great amount of money where you are living, have you considered moving? It kinda sounds like nothing is particularly holding you where you are at. I know someone struggling with making " only" 105k a year here, and it would be absolute riches in say.....rural Mississippi ( I think I remember that cost of living is cheap there). You'll have to research a lot to make sure you make the smart move but it's totally doable.
Also, don't compare yourself to others at all. I am apparently respectable and responsible but think of myself closer to a child with a drinking permit and an adult by accident. I bet a lot here think the same, we are all faking it in one way or another.
I appreciate the kind words and encouragement. Thanks for the offer of fronting money for a fix-and-flip but, I must decline.
My discharge is General, Non-Punitive. I wasn't in long enough for disability or anything like that. I don't claim to be a Marine and I usually don't mention it because it's embarrassing to explain. I destroyed my left rotator cuff in high school, then re-injured my shoulder late in the second month of Boot Camp and was sent to a Corpsman to be examined. He asked if I had previously injured my shoulder and, I was honest and said "yes". After the x-ray they gave me some grief about an undisclosed clavicle break and didn't believe me when I told them it happened when I was very young and I didn't see a doctor for it. It was never set or treated looks a bit different than my other collar bone. Obviously no G.I. bill either.
Antihero said:.... we are all faking it in one way or another.
This right here, tough hand dealt and you are wise enough to ask. I really see another job (a second job) as your opportunity to take out some debt and start building.
I think a lot of people seem better off than they are - there's a ton of wisdom in the quote about comparison being the thief of joy. A lot of people are struggling right now, and if my wife asked for a divorce tonight, my financial picture would completely change. I think you should be proud of what you've done so far, and continue planning for what's ahead. My view is you have the spending side of the equation in good order, so I'd agree with those who suggest trying ways to increase income. This is a good personality test, then you can use the results to figure out careers that may be a good fit. I've worked with hundreds of people over the years in job searches and career advice, so I'm always happy to help.
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