How in the world do I find a contractor?

In reply to SVreX:

Oh please. Contractors are like anyone else - most of them are a waste of time and space. The remaining ones are great but the challenge is id'ing that small subset.

In reply to dculberson:

Right.

So, we can say the same about customers, right?

It's market driven. Always has been. Customers come to the market place with extremely limited knowledge and extremely unreasonable expectations and, voila!, contractors become exactly what is expected.

It sounds like you are saying we agree, but you aren't ok with me saying so.

patgizz wrote:

SVreX wrote: Yep. Customers call 19 different contractors looking for quotes on a pathetically small job, then get online bitching about how unreliable contractors are when they get no responses. Sounds about right.

pretty much. the best thing about those pathetically small jobs that nobody calls you back on is i swoop in and do it. i can pretty much name my price because at that point they're so fed up they are just happy i'm willing to help them. tomorrow i'm hanging 3 pairs of shutters, putting brickmould up around a garage door, and across the street i'm texturing a ceiling in a bathroom. 50% of the time those small jobs that i took the time to do instead of blowing them off for bigger work lead to the bigger work at that same house, most of the time not even considering to get another quote because they know i will show up and do it right. best margin is on little jobs by far.

I agree. That's pretty much the way I always ran my business.

In reply to Enyar:

I didn't answer your original question because you already figured it out, but the best place to find contractors in priority order:

1- Ask material vendors (they know who is busy, and who they are selling to, and who pays their bills)

2- Ask for referrals from trade professionals like architects and interior designers (they know who they have been successful working with, and know lots of people)

3- Ask for referrals from people who have recently hired contractors (they know if they had a good experience or not, but only know about 1 contractor, and have minimal knowledge of good practices)

4- Search online (Angie's List, social media, etc)- the worst option.

Most people start with # 4.

In reply to SVreX:

I'm just disagreeing with your characterization of Enyar's experience.

In reply to dculberson:

I think you missed the point.

Enyar asked a perfectly reasonable question, which was not really addressed by most responses in this thread, instead it was met with a lot of bitching. I did my best to actually answer the question.

We the consumers really need to take responsibility for the environment we have created. It's ALL market driven. We have reduced the contracting trade to a comparison of price only (as if it was even possible to compare apples to apples), with no assessment of capability or quality. Then we get upset when we get exactly what we paid for and the low bidder does a E36 M3ty job.

We see pretty things on HGTV that we want, we think the skills are basic and attainable by everyone, and we are unwilling to pay a reasonable rate for the skills it takes to do the job well. Then we bitch when we get exactly what we asked for.

I was not making a characterization of Enyar's experience. I was making a characterization of the poor responses to his question in this thread.

Contractors have simply risen to meet the extremely low bar that consumers have established.

SVreX wrote: Yep. Customers call 19 different contractors looking for quotes on a pathetically small job, then get online bitching about how unreliable contractors are when they get no responses. Sounds about right.

Ooof , low blow. For the record, I'm expecting this to cost $8-15k and I'm hoping to pay cash if that gets me a better deal. Additionally if they guy had one talk with my wife he could probably get another $15k in work remodeling a kitchen, bathroom and taking out a wall because I don't have the time to do it. If that's a pathetically small job and people don't want that kind of money then I apologize for inconveniencing the contractor community.

Is the proper method to call one contractor, tell him to get to work without looking at the property and paying whatever bill he sends me 8 months later when the work finally gets done?

In reply to Enyar:

Easy cowboy.

You downplayed the job, not me. You did not say you were looking for a contractor for $50K in work, you said it was just a "slab with a roof over it".

What you are communicating is that you are trying to cut corners, even if you don't mean to be. That's why you are having trouble getting responses.

The proper method would be to check his credentials, research his skills and references, check with his bank, look at his licensing and insurance, use an architect if necessary, and hire someone you KNOW you can trust. Price is a very minor consideration.

A contractor will almost always return calls if you say, "I have done my homework, and I recognize you would be an exceptional fit for this job, and I am prepared to pay what it is worth". However, if they hear you say, "What's the cheapest I can get this for, and by the way I'm shopping it around to every Tom, Dick, and Harry I can find" they will avoid you like the plague.

Would you hire the cheapest lawyer, or the one who is qualified to do your legal work well?

All concrete work is NOT the same. All contracting is NOT the same. I have no idea what your point is in asking for multiple quotes- might be an excellent idea. Hire the right guy for the job. 99.9% of customers will NOT share their budget with the contractor, thinking somehow that they will save money by not revealing their special secret. It's not an above-board way of approaching the problem.

You asked for a "concrete slab with a roof over it". That, is a building, and requires a permit. As a minimum, its a carport. Depending on the design details, it may have fire walls required, structural issues, grade issues, drainage, etc, etc. You live in the most regulated state in the country for construction.

Your price may be perfectly fair (and I have built many similar things for much less). Maybe, maybe not. No way to tell over the internet.

Have you had an architect draw up plans? Without a set of plans, the contractor can't get permits, and you are communicating to him that you are trying to cut corners (even if you are not).

There is absolutely no reason for you to take offense and consider what I said to be a low blow. I am trying to help you see why you are having trouble getting a response.

BTW- Most contractors will take a job for the appraised value of the job, or the value of the insurance claim, just so they can avoid the headaches of the bidding process.

Price is TRULY not a good measure of a contractor.

SVreX wrote: /snip We see pretty things on HGTV that we want, we think the skills are basic and attainable by everyone, and we are unwilling to pay a reasonable rate for the skills it takes to do the job well. Then we bitch when we get exactly what we asked for. /snip

This is a huge problem honestly, people see the home remodel shows and expect a full kitchen gut for example to cost 10-15k and take two weeks to do. Its unreasonable. Semi custom cabinets are 4-6 weeks around me right now, and dont even get me started on the prices they throw out on those shows. I do enjoy watching them for some levity from time to time.

In reply to Enyar:

No your doing it perfectly fine, I think that everyone is so busy its easy for people to simply blow off call/jobs simply because they don't have the energy to chase it.

Not that that is right in any way, but yes call multiple people, get multiple quotes, find out who YOU think you can communicate and work with. I'm guessing it wont be easy, but once you find a good GC you will be happy. You will call them for your other needs if the first project goes well.

java230 wrote: ...find out who YOU think you can communicate and work with.

I agree.

THAT'S the reason to get multiple quotes.

BTW, I might be one of the guys who would have not returned your call. Not because I am rude, or incompetent, and not because of anything you have done. Because I am not a good fit for the job, and would have recognized it early in our conversation. I am a commercial contractor, and that's what I do best.

There are a lot of different kinds of contractors. Commercial, residential, industrial, civil, handyman, subcontractor, big jobs, small jobs, interior contractors, etc. etc.

I get calls all day, and it is my job to determine quickly which jobs I can do well. If it's not for me, I move on.

Focus your efforts on guys who are a good fit for your job, and you will have better results.

Good luck!

SVreX wrote: In reply to Enyar: Easy cowboy. You downplayed the job, not me. You did not say you were looking for a contractor for $50K in work, you said it was just a "slab with a roof over it". What you are communicating is that you are trying to cut corners, even if you don't mean to be. That's why you are having trouble getting responses. The proper method would be to check his credentials, research his skills and references, check with his bank, look at his licensing and insurance, use an architect if necessary, and hire someone you KNOW you can trust. Price is a very minor consideration. A contractor will almost always return calls if you say, "I have done my homework, and I recognize you would be an exceptional fit for this job, and I am prepared to pay what it is worth". However, if they hear you say, "What's the cheapest I can get this for, and by the way I'm shopping it around to every Tom, Dick, and Harry I can find" they will avoid you like the plague. Would you hire the cheapest lawyer, or the one who is qualified to do your legal work well? All concrete work is NOT the same. All contracting is NOT the same. I have no idea what your point is in asking for multiple quotes- might be an excellent idea. Hire the right guy for the job. 99.9% of customers will NOT share their budget with the contractor, thinking somehow that they will save money by not revealing their special secret. It's not an above-board way of approaching the problem. You asked for a "concrete slab with a roof over it". That, is a building, and requires a permit. As a minimum, its a carport. Depending on the design details, it may have fire walls required, structural issues, grade issues, drainage, etc, etc. You live in the most regulated state in the country for construction. Your price may be perfectly fair (and I have built many similar things for much less). Maybe, maybe not. No way to tell over the internet. Have you had an architect draw up plans? Without a set of plans, the contractor can't get permits, and you are communicating to him that you are trying to cut corners (even if you are not). There is absolutely no reason for you to take offense and consider what I said to be a low blow. I am trying to help you see why you are having trouble getting a response.

I don't see how I'm trying to cut corners. I'm not a contractor. I don't know how this works. All I want is a someone to show up when they say they will show up, give me an estimate on cost, take my money, build something and move on with their life. It's hard to trust someone when they say they will show up or provide a quote and then keep pushing back appointments months at a time.

No one ever said I'm trying to cut corners or get this built the cheapest way possible. If this is truly $50k worth of work then I would appreciate someone tell me that so I can just build a deck instead. Excluding the quotes that seemed insane to me because they were too cheap I've received 3 quotes. One for $8.5k, one for $12k and one for $20k. The $20k one was over the phone without coming to look in person and doesn't appear to be willing to do the job. The $12k quote guy was awesome, said all the right things and if he would answer my calls I would give him cash right away. The $8.5k guy seemed pretty good as well but may be blowing smoke because even he admitted he doesn't normally do this kind of work.

I'm only getting multiple quotes because once I do get a quote these contractors disappear and I can't move on with them.

I did not say you are trying to cut corners. I said it sounds like it.

You are getting defensive when you are not being attacked. I am trying to help you see how contractors HEAR what you are saying.

Put yourself in the position of a guy who only gets paid for what he produces, but gets 6-10 calls a day from people who want him to put in effort for free (estimates), and often don't want anything more than a quote.

I am not excusing it, I am explaining it.

I'd pay for an estimate. I did pay for an estimate for a place I don't even know. Even then it was difficult to get someone out (they cancelled twice, after my payment went through), and that was for a very specialized service.

You did not answer whether or not you have a set of plans. I don't think you do.

You have a price spread of over 250%. That's because you have not communicated clearly what you want. FWIW, I generally see price spreads of 1-3% on bids for multi-million dollar projects. You are forcing the contractors to shoot from the hip and guess what you want, and HOPE they make money.

If you had an architect, they would have already told you the value of the project, and you wouldn't have to be guessing. You could be asking about their qualifications.

Even your $8.5K to $12K is too much. If you were buying a new car and one dealer told you $30K, while the other said $20K, wouldn't you be suspicious?

Another commercial contractor here. The word just is about as dirty 4 letter word I know. I refuse to use it in emails and try my hardest to never even say the word. There is an entire philology behind it, it passive aggressiveness and aloofness. When a client starts in with 'just', I have to stop and show them all of the other considerations that go into it.

Roof brings on an entire different set of considerations as well. Any contractor should have brought up concerns of permiting, engineering calcs, truss calcs, lead time on getting pricing back from truss companies. As soon as you add a roof to a slab, you now also have footing considerations and attachment points.

They should have been referring you to an engineer or architect instead of offering a cost. The local licencing board will go back on a contractor if they are doing work that should be permitted without it. Here that project needs engineering stamps and permits without question.

Another ave might be to call your local metal building guy. They have packaged buildings like you are looking for on the shelf usually have good relationships with concrete guys for slabs an footings. It might be the easy button for getting this done.

I want a less fancy version of this

I was under the impression that a GC would work out the permitting, design, etc. If that's not the case then I will start reaching out to architects.

A GC can arrange the design work. Maybe. Dependent on your local requirements.

But that's not the point. Your quotes are completely worthless without it.

Each of them have a different idea of what they are building, so there is no comparison of their quotes. All of them will say, "I didn't realize THAT'S what you wanted- that's not what we bid" when you actually get rolling.

You think you are hiring the low bidder. You are not. You are hiring the guy who can convince you he's the low bidder, and get you to not notice added expenses like architectural fees, engineering, permitting, etc.

If you do not have a plan, you CAN NOT get competitive bids. Completely impossible.

And, as previously noted, that structure is not a "slab". It's a patio, WITH a foundation, footings, etc. It's a building.

...but you do not need the plan in advance.

If you are hiring a GC on trust, you can go ahead and hire him. He can work out the details.

If you are hiring him on price, then you need the plan.

I'm not hiring the low bidder. As I mentioned before I tossed out the 8k bid in favor of the 12k bid. I also completely disregarded the $1500-4000k bids because I didn't believe they could deliver what they promised.

I guess I'll reach out to an architect. See upcoming thread for how in the world to find an architect.

If you actually like one of the guys who came out you might ask them about doing design and permitting. I will do it for small simple projects like that (sometimes). If you use trusses the mfg will do all the engineering for it. The GC will generally have a structural engineer that they have worked with before that can do any quick footing/slab/wall calcs needed.

Being in Clearwater you will most likey need a set of plans approved for hurricane codes in your area.

Enyar wrote: I'm not hiring the low bidder.

Yes, I understand.

Any bid is subject to renegotiation without decent specs.

Can you guys please belittle and nitpick what I'm doing wrong by asking contractors "Here's the windows that I want from the local lumber place, I would like to replace the outer trim with some composite/pvc/non-degradable material. You can figure out whether it's better to do replacements or new construction. What's the price?"

I asked for references from the local building supply place (NOT lowes-depot), one of the two called me back and stopped by, and hasn't followed up with the quote. The only price we talked about was laughing at Renewal's completely ridiculous price. I've got cash ready to go if it's within the range I'm expecting...