Angry, my wife is part of a food co-op that your wife might be interested in. I think everything we buy from the co-op is organic but it's cheaper. If you're interested, shoot me a PM. We're in Fenton, but the co-op distributes the food in Brighton.
Angry, my wife is part of a food co-op that your wife might be interested in. I think everything we buy from the co-op is organic but it's cheaper. If you're interested, shoot me a PM. We're in Fenton, but the co-op distributes the food in Brighton.
I am making $54k a year and I have $6.5k in student loans. Single (although about to be engaged) and no kids. I am putting ~20% into savings, $725 in rent, utilities and internet a month, $150 a mouth gas, $100 cell phone, $500 in food (budgeted usually don't spend that), plus other stuff including spending too much on cars. 
I make my budget into kinda a game and I try to be under budget and that helps me save some extra. I actually love my job and with the money I make I am able to save some and have plenty of fun. So I think what I am making now is good but I could easily make do with a lot less.
The jobs thread got me thinking on these same lines. There is a point where are your bills get paid, you have a little cushion for emergencies and you can still afford to go out to eat and have nice vacations. At higher incomes, your standard of living doesn't improve much. People just tend to buy houses that have more space than they need or use, cars are that more expensive, more TVs that you can actually watch etc.
That point of comfort depends on where you live, but in the south I'd say it is certainly less than $100K.
In reply to DrBoost:
PM sent. Thanks!
In reply to Otto Maddox:
And not that I am judging. I just bought a new TV I didn't need for a house that is too big for my family.
You know, I think we just confirmed the survey!
$60,000 ($3,500 a month THP) is enough to make you happy, keep your projects rolling along, keep your kart running, if you're single. $75,000 ($4,500 THP) is enough for a couple. $85,000 ($6,000 THP) is enough for four or five.
At that income level, you have to make some good choices about lifestyle, but you get to make your own choices, and you can make up for your own emergencies.
It's hard to say, but I feel more comfortable now than I ever have. That said, my situation is different. Single, unmarried. No kids. Low mortgage payment (for my area) and a very small house. I still eat out way too much (last year, food was my #2 expense) and spend a little under $300/mo in fuel for the TDi. And it seems I'm forever buying too much crap, but I do try to keep it under control.
I'm always saying, "it'll get better after...." and right now that will be in a few months when the silly loan I took out to buy my GT6 is paid off.
Between my wife and I we make just under 6 figures. We are comfortable and when we get all of our debt paid down things will be even better. We have 3 kids, a 2000 sqft house and two cars that are at least 6 years old and things really are going well.
One thing is that we have kept up the habits we got into when our income was alot less. Shop at Aldi. limit eating out, things like that.
Do we really need more money? No but it would be nice.
If my girlfriend and I both made $40,000 we'd be rolling in the cash, but we'd also not have that much vacation time.
However, $80,000 for both of us would be nice if we had a few weeks vacation.
We currently are at almost 60k for combined household income.
She's about ready to buy a new $14,000 car in cash.
She also doesn't have expensive hobbies.
I still have nearly my entire yearly income in debt. Bugger.
Married, 2 kiddos, just built a 1900 sq ft house (you may have seen the build thread). Wife makes about $55k, I made $34k last year. She drives a financed 2008 Armada, I drive a paid for 2000 Crown Vic.
Money I'd like vs money I'd love are 2 different things. I'd really like to make $50-60k. That would make us VERY comfortable. Money I'd love would be $100k as that would allow my wife to stay home with the baby, which she REALLY wants to do.
All in all, I guess we're doing alright.
I live in an area with a very low cost of living. I make about 35k a year, own a house that will be paid off in two months, have too many cars but no car payment, have a company vehicle that also doubles at a delivery truck, so I almost never have to buy gas, have a live in GF (that will be a fiance soon) that goes to school full time, and no kids. We live pretty cheaply, but spend too much on food and drinks. That being said, we're comfortable, but we'll be more comfortable once I'm totally out of debt. Once the house is paid off I'm putting the house payment money towards a small loan and should be totally out of debt by June, so we'll basically have an extra $600 a month. Once Colleen is done with school and gets a job we're putting 75% of her income towards the student loans and they'll be gone in less than three years. By then we'll be at about 85k a year with no debt at all. I think we'll be VERY comfortable then, or have kids and be in the same boat we're in now, which isn't a bad place to be.
i'm sure someone better at surfing than I could find it quickly, but I seem to recall a story going around about this that the threshold of hapiness/satisfaction with income vs worries of securities stopped around the $60,000 annually for most people.
16vCorey wrote: I live in an area with a very low cost of living. I make about 35k a year, own a house that will be paid off in two months, have too many cars but no car payment, have a company vehicle that also doubles at a delivery truck, so I almost never have to buy gas, have a live in GF (that will be a fiance soon) that goes to school full time, and no kids. We live pretty cheaply, but spend too much on food and drinks. That being said, we're comfortable, but we'll be more comfortable once I'm totally out of debt. Once the house is paid off I'm putting the house payment money towards a small loan and should be totally out of debt by June, so we'll basically have an extra $600 a month. Once Colleen is done with school and gets a job we're putting 75% of her income towards the student loans and they'll be gone in less than three years. By then we'll be at about 85k a year with no debt at all. I think we'll be VERY comfortable then, or have kids and be in the same boat we're in now, which isn't a bad place to be.
All very, very good news my friend.
chaparral wrote: At that income level, you have to make some good choices about lifestyle, but you get to make your own choices, and you can make up for your own emergencies.
true. it really does come down to making good choices about lifestyle. i believe we're going to adjust our restaurants and entertainment budget down so we can put more into the college fund. we also have six months of living expenses in the bank, which is a very nice security blanket.
it is absolutely critical to have a plan. in "The Millionaire Next Door" there are some interesting data presented re. how much time is spent on planning and budgeting by wealthy people versus non-wealthy people. wealthy people spend something like 20x more time planning. dave ramsey says "every dollar has a name," and that's how we live. we spend about 4 hours per month, and go through several iterations of the monthly budget one week before that month begins. it is an effective tool for communicating the expectations for the month, it minimizes surprises, and it gives us each a tangible assignment of responsibility.
Yup, choices are critical. Both my brothers make about twice what I do, have fewer kids and are cash poor. They have HUGE houses, two new cars at all times, eat take-out all the time blah blah blah. I make under 50K, most of our groceries are organic, have 5 cars and are putting some money away (on top of investments) each month. Are we comfy? Yes and no. We need new windows but can't just go out and get them. But, part of that comes down to choices. We don't use credit unless absolutely necessary. I'd rather buy windows with cash 2 at a time, then go in debt again.
I'll also learn to put those windows in myself.
AngryCorvair wrote:chaparral wrote: At that income level, you have to make some good choices about lifestyle, but you get to make your own choices, and you can make up for your own emergencies.true. it really does come down to making good choices about lifestyle. i believe we're going to adjust our restaurants and entertainment budget down so we can put more into the college fund. we also have six months of living expenses in the bank, which is a very nice security blanket. it is absolutely critical to have a plan. in "The Millionaire Next Door" there are some interesting data presented re. how much time is spent on planning and budgeting by wealthy people versus non-wealthy people. wealthy people spend something like 20x more time planning. dave ramsey says "every dollar has a name," and that's how we live. we spend about 4 hours per month, and go through several iterations of the monthly budget one week before that month begins. it is an effective tool for communicating the expectations for the month, it minimizes surprises, and it gives us each a tangible assignment of responsibility.
What names are on the stack of singles reserved for the Seven Seas?
In 1999 I was making a little more than $40k a year. It's the same $40k I had been making for the five years previous, and the same $40k I would probably be making five years later. I was working for a small company, and had pretty much hit the ceiling as far as wages go. It was the perfect job, except for the money. My wife was a stay at home mom, and we were struggling to buy a house, keep the kids in hockey, and try to stay afloat. I got the chance to go to a medium size manufacturing plant where I was just another tradesman, but with a base pay of $60k. In my first year I made $72k, and haven't looked back. The difference it made for us was the difference between getting by, and getting ahead. 12 years later I'm still with the same company, have moved up to a farm instead of a little house in the country, and have paid it off. I think it took about 5 years for us to accomplish everything we wanted to, and now we're now just coasting, and riding it out until retirement. It was a challenge to be able to do what we did when all of our dual income friends said it was impossible, and I think we're better off for it, but I sure don't miss it. So I guess the answer is, once you're at or near the 6 figures mark for a few years, if you do it right, you can set yourself up for your future income to be a lot less important.
Zomby woof wrote: In 1999 I was making a little more than $40k a year. It's the same $40k I had been making for the five years previous, and the same $40k I would probably be making five years later. I was working for a small company, and had pretty much hit the ceiling as far as wages go. It was the perfect job, except for the money. My wife was a stay at home mom, and we were struggling to buy a house, keep the kids in hockey, and try to stay afloat. I got the chance to go to a medium size manufacturing plant where I was just another tradesman, but with a base pay of $60k. In my first year I made $72k, and haven't looked back. The difference it made for us was the difference between getting by, and getting ahead. 12 years later I'm still with the same company, have moved up to a farm instead of a little house in the country, and have paid it off. I think it took about 5 years for us to accomplish everything we wanted to, and now we're now just coasting, and riding it out until retirement. It was a challenge to be able to do what we did when all of our dual income friends said it was impossible, and I think we're better off for it, but I sure don't miss it. So I guess the answer is, once you're at or near the 6 figures mark for a few years, if you do it right, you can set yourself up for your future income to be a lot less important.
Hi Zomby,
I’ve been well over six figures for many years and yet I’m way behind plan.
It’s not that I waste money, at least 25% of my gross income gets invested, it’s that the market has been flat for over a decade and my house has lost about 20% of its value since I bought it.
Current situation…My wife works but what she makes barely covers my taxes….Debt free except for the mortgage which only represents about 40% of the homes current value….Two kids that need to be put through college.
I know I’m in a better position than most people but I do not feel at all secure…it’s a race to the finish with multiple off camber, decreasing radius turns ahead of me.
poopshovel wrote: What names are on the stack of singles reserved for the Seven Seas?
DrBoost wrote: I'll also learn to put those windows in myself.
Installing replacement windows is stupid-easy. Really. Especially after you've done a couple. My g/f and I installed a dozen in her house a few years ago. About half way through, we were doing each one easily in under an hour. Definitely a DIY project for anyone with reasonable mechanical skill.
It's very easy to adjust one's standard of living to match your income level. The real trick is act somewhat poor even when you're not. Easier said than done and I'm still working on it.
Ian F wrote:DrBoost wrote: I'll also learn to put those windows in myself.Installing replacement windows is stupid-easy. Really. Especially after you've done a couple. My g/f and I installed a dozen in her house a few years ago. About half way through, we were doing each one easily in under an hour. Definitely a DIY project for anyone with reasonable mechanical skill. It's very easy to adjust one's standard of living to match your income level. The real trick is act somewhat poor even when you're not. Easier said than done and I'm still working on it.
Even though I've never done it, I know I can. When it comes to stuff around the house I have the attitude "if a plumber can learn to plumb a house, or an electrician can learn to wire a house, why can't I?" That's worked for me thus far. The only thing I've hired out was running the 150 amp service to my garage because it dealt with messing with the service coming into the house (also upgraded the house at the same time).
On that note, I'm going to have to hire out the bay window in the living room when we replace that. It's just too big for little old me.
RX Reven' wrote: Hi Zomby, I’ve been well over six figures for many years and yet I’m way behind plan. It’s not that I waste money, at least 25% of my gross income gets invested, it’s that the market has been flat for over a decade and my house has lost about 20% of its value since I bought it. Current situation…My wife works but what she makes barely covers my taxes….Debt free except for the mortgage which only represents about 40% of the homes current value….Two kids that need to be put through college. I know I’m in a better position than most people but I do not feel at all secure…it’s a race to the finish with multiple off camber, decreasing radius turns ahead of me.
It's all about priorities, and planning.
I wonder why you'd put over $2000/month into what you think is a flat market, yet still carry a mortgage? Getting rid of debt might make you feel a lot more comfortable.
Can't say we are starving but we would like to be more comfortable. I think that magic $75k number would be nice as we together are making about half that. If I ever hope to have kids I will need to find a new way to make money. I work for the state and in that my job is secure, I have a "company" truck to drive to work and my family owns the house I live in but I pay rent. I have a fleet of old cars some of which run most of which need some sort of a repair. My Fiance has expenses as she is a full time student and only works part time. If it weren't for her student loans we would be in a bad way. I think if and when she can work full time we will be closer to the 50-60k range and if/when she ges her Phd we will be much better, but for the time being we clip coupons, try not to eat out too much and don't take more than the occasional weekend vacation. Most of our Vacation money goes to tavelling to track days to volunteer as workers in return for track time. All So we can take the car to the track a few times a year when we have money to feed the tow rig.
Despite the lack of extra $$ we are happy and I feel blessed. I have come to accept that money does not always mean happiness, but a little bit more of it would help keep the anxiety away.
Datsun1500 wrote: The main problem is the guy making $40K thinks it will be much better at $50K. The guy at $50K thinks, $60k is the number...
There was an article a couple of years ago where they actually surveyed people to find out where the peak happiness / income curves met, and it was at around 90K. Less than that and people had stress about bills or things they couldn't afford. More than that and the money because the stress.
AngryCorvair wrote:chaparral wrote: At that income level, you have to make some good choices about lifestyle, but you get to make your own choices, and you can make up for your own emergencies.true. it really does come down to making good choices about lifestyle. i believe we're going to adjust our restaurants and entertainment budget down so we can put more into the college fund. we also have six months of living expenses in the bank, which is a very nice security blanket. it is absolutely critical to have a plan. in "The Millionaire Next Door" there are some interesting data presented re. how much time is spent on planning and budgeting by wealthy people versus non-wealthy people. wealthy people spend something like 20x more time planning. dave ramsey says "every dollar has a name," and that's how we live. we spend about 4 hours per month, and go through several iterations of the monthly budget one week before that month begins. it is an effective tool for communicating the expectations for the month, it minimizes surprises, and it gives us each a tangible assignment of responsibility.
Of course, there are times where it's important to not have a plan, too.
1) If a plan would cheat you out of taking irresponsible risks to do something great. I could've raced at the Rock Island Grand Prix on a factory Margay for a few grand that I didn't have. I could've spent ten grand on motors, batteries, and electronics and had the fastest electric kart in the world a couple years ago. I should've done it and worried about it later.
2) If a plan would tie you to doing something that's going to work against you in the end. My plan involved spending five-to-twenty grand on a car that would be dead-reliable, fast, and relaxing for my 25,000 miles a year of driving - and then I moved and went down to 1500 miles a year of driving and 8000 on the motorcycle.
3) If a plan relies on stuff that just ain't gonna happen. I could plan ahead to save for a down payment on a house when I graduate. I could plan ahead around finding Ms. Right and settling down after a few years. But I'm too much of a wanderer, and want to get into an industry that'll be changing and growing rapidly, to tie myself to living in the same area for the ten-fifteen years it would take to pay off the house. But I'm an engineer and if past history is any indication it's at least 5-1 against my having the same dance partner for two different evenings, let alone for the next sixty years.
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