How to manage this personel situation

When god wants to punish you, she answerers your prayers....

Say that you run a small job shop. The shop makes widgets using a combination of manual and CNC controlled tooling. Old school shop and equipment.

Say you hired a guy for just over minimum wage to run one of the manual machines. Nothing complicated, just rough out stock for the CNC guys. Figured maybe you could train this guy cause he is a bit older than the kid you had to fire because he could not keep up, show-up or run independently.

Now, there was a hint of what was to come when after a week on the job the new guy started teaching you tricks on how to increase productivity with the tooling. He has never done this stuff before either.

Turns out the new guy is very organized. Has gone around and cleaned up the shop ( never been done before) and built a few fixtures to improve flow from one machine to the next and cut down on $crap. Has also started to make observations about safety codes that maybe should be in place. Like earmuffs for a very loud work environment and maybe safety glasses should be enforced more than they are. Turns out he is a kinda closet CNC mechanic also and saved a lot of money by figuring out sensor failures  that normally are outsourced to a CNC mechanic.

So, whats the problem? You won the hiring lottery and should celebrate no? Problem is that he IS the new guy in a shop of Old guys. Bottom of the totem pole and not making anyone else look good. Old guys are not looking to change cause they been doing it this way for a long time. No expressed problem yet, but new guy is starting to want to do more and Old Guys are not buying in.

How do you take advantage of the new guy's talents without just trading an inefficient but long functioning shop for a shop full of disgruntled workers? Also realizing that at some point new guy is going to bring up the subject of pay that matches the money he is saving the shop in waste and maintenance outsourcing.

Pete

Promote him and pay him more. It’s pretty clear.  Tell the old guys to get with it our get out as there are people out there willing to outwork them for less. 

Dont let thr situation go on for long. Address it head on honestly. You don’t address it and you will build resentment in your ranks. 

The tough truth is that you need to keep the new guy happy. If you want the shop to succeed, long term, the old guys need to embrace the change[s] or get lost. What happens if the old guys are not happy? They either grumble and accept it, or the leave (because they quit or they're fired). 

It is a tough pill to swallow, but if you're looking out for the best of the shop, you'll  do what needs to be done to become more efficient. And to keep the new guy happy for a little while longer, maybe look at awarding him a bonus. Doesn't even need to be monetary--it could be an iPad, or a gift certificate for a Steak Dinner--something to make him know that you appreciate his work, and recognize you'll need to do more in the future to keep him happy. Nip it in the bud to keep him happy.

Oh, and start making that safety E36 M3 mandatory. That is an easy lawsuit waiting to happen. 

It really depends on what your priorities are. Do you want a better running shop or a group of happy inefficient workers doing it that way because they've always done it that way?

I've run a shop of tradesmen in the past and at one time used to be that young energetic guy with big ideas. Now I'm the old guy (mailing it in) and have a few of those young eager guys around me. I realize that they're no threat to me so I really don't care what they do. Your old guys need to learn that the young guy is not a threat to them. In the end you treat it like every other personnel issue, with progressive discipline. 

In my experience most companies completely drop the ball, lose the new guy (I've been that guy) and go back to the old inefficient way of doing things because those are the kinds of decisions that got them there in the first place.

One other point I'm going to make here: Think about how a big corporation would handle this. They (should) would look at it and say "hey, this is better. Makes us more money and makes us spend less. Promote this guy. Everyone else, we're doing it his way now, if you don't like it, there's the door". And if they realize they are overstaffed, they let folks go.

I realize that this is a poor comparison as you're not a big corporation, but think about what happens when that doesn't happen. I'll give you a hint, check out Blockbuster. 

In reply to mtn :

I do not know about where the op is located, but finding good CNC operators is not a trivial task. If he is running a somewhat lean crew and starts threatening his employees with “change or leave”, they might take him up on it and he is SOL for a while. 

My experience with this industry is that it is difficult to find people tha show up, are smart and know their limits and care about what they do. When you find one that is good, you pay him well and keep him happy. 

A guy like that I would try and train in order to become a lead guy, help him gain the respect of the other guys. No need to be condescending or reprimand the other guys, just show them that some of the ideas are saving money and it would be a waste not to implement. 

Quiet bonus? 

Have a discussion much like you're having here?  Sometimes honesty is really the easiest path, IMHO.

Ian F said:

Quiet bonus? 

Have a discussion much like you're having here?  Sometimes honesty is really the easiest path, IMHO.

Honesty is a good idea.

Quiet bonus is  probably the most harmful way of handling a situation like this

Something else to ask yourself, if he's really that good (and a little older) then why is he working for you for a little more than minimum wage? Not saying it means anything, but it would be in the back of my mind.

Thing is the new guy has no credentials to back him up. Not a kid either from what I gather maybe older than a lot of the old guys.  Old guys are "Machinist" at least in their minds. ( are CNC Operators considered machinist?) If an old guy leaves, the place will be shut down until they find a new guy to do the job. Zero skills overlap from machine to machine and what gets made in the morning needs to be installed in the afternoon.

The shop owner ( not mine and not where I work)  is of the type that would rather work in his business rather than on his business. So he would be happy to let new guy take over if it meant he could spend all his time in the shop hanging with his old guys.

My advice was to have owner tell new guy to coast for a bit and let stuff settle. Maybe some old guys will get with the program and maybe an opportunity to find new talent. I also endorse bonus rather than pay raise during first year.

My forecast is that this will either end well with a total shop overhaul in the next year or a lot of hurt feelings and new guy looking for next job. IF new guy ends up losing the battle, his exit will have to be managed so as to not invite legal backlash cause who needs that E36 M3?

Pete

NOHOME said:

My forecast is that this will either end well with a total shop overhaul in the next year or a lot of hurt feelings and new guy looking for next job. IF new guy ends up losing the battle, his exit will have to be managed so as to not invite legal backlash cause who needs that E36 M3?

 

Pete

I hope neither of them sees it as a battle, and rarely is there ever 'legal backlash'. It's usually only money which is very simple to calculate, and typically not much over a short period of a year or two, and only if the situation is mishandled, assuming the shop is Ontario.

NOHOME said:

Thing is the new guy has no credentials to back him up. Not a kid either from what I gather maybe older than a lot of the old guys.  Old guys are "Machinist" at least in their minds. ( are CNC Operators considered machinist?) If an old guy leaves, the place will be shut down until they find a new guy to do the job. Zero skills overlap from machine to machine and what gets made in the morning needs to be installed in the afternoon

Ok, so old guy has the age to be able to at least the look the part via his experience.

Credentials aren't necessary in a job where stuff either gets finished or it doesn't. If new guy can get the part made as fast or faster than the older guys, cheaper, than there is his credential.  

Now, if new guy is still learning new skills around the shop, but he brings a lot to the table, he needs to be given duties and pay respects of what his skills are. Maybe not shop manager, but he might like his own domain. Keep him contained, if you will, so that he doesn't step on the toes of others. Ramp up the side of the business where he works, or let him sells his skills to potential customers.

If ownership likes the old guys, and doesn't like this new guy's suggestions, then new guy should start looking for work. I've been in that situation. When you can complete all your required duties and want to improve other things, if management doesn't like hearing about those other things, you either deserve more money/responsibility or a better job. Once said job is secured (hopefully new employer understands new guys desire to improve his work environment/business), you lay it down: I either want promoted to a title with more responsibility and ability to change things that can improve our business, or I'm out." 

It makes absolutely ZERO sense to keep your mouth shut, be underpaid, and twiddling your thumbs because a business is uninterested in changing it's ways. Businesses need to recognize talent and invest in it. If they don't, they deserve to fail.

From the ownership side, in my experience, the way to handle this is actually not that hard: create a new, vacant position, and encourage everyone in the shop to apply for it. Say that it might involve some safety management duties, perhaps some maintenance/troubleshooting duties. If your old guys don't apply, tell them "well its your own damn fault." If the new guy doesn't apply, it's his fault too. 

NOHOME said:

The shop owner ( not mine and not where I work)  is of the type that would rather work in his business rather than on his business. So he would be happy to let new guy take over if it meant he could spend all his time in the shop hanging with his old guys.

This would fit perfectly with the "new position". The shop owner could say "gang, I want to spend more time in the shop, so we're going to look for Shop Manager to take over some of my duties, you're all welcome to apply." 

Getting it done > credentials.

Sorry old guy slackers.

Something similar happened to me when I worked at TWG. They had me start to work on some of the other companies (there 4 under the same roof/banner) after I spent 3 years getting one of them pretty much coast worthy. 

The old guard didn't like there failures/laziness being pointed out to management and doing actual presentations on how things could better, more efficient, etc. I even tried to help one of the people along to be my understudy to get trained on new software, etc. These folks came in with the director of engineering when they were purchased.

They downright refused change, and I ended up being laid off in the office lay off...............even though I was the only person in the company that knew the job, software, etc. 

mtn said:

Oh, and start making that safety E36 M3 mandatory. That is an easy lawsuit waiting to happen. 

Lawsuit, Workers' Comp, OSHA inspections and fines ... All are much worse if you don't even try.  The company gets the shaft if they "let" the workers not comply.  Anyone can anonymously call OSHA and file a complaint - not uncommon shortly after a firing..

Enforce the rules.  No, they won't like it.  Yeah, they have to do it.  

under the cone of silence, i am perfecting the art of both coasting to retirement *and* getting it done.  ;-)

A guy like that I would try and train in order to become a lead guy, help him gain the respect of the other guys. No need to be condescending or reprimand the other guys, just show them that some of the ideas are saving money and it would be a waste not to implement. 

Pretty sure this is the desired outcome. Just not sure that the company owner is clear on how to make it happen; kinda what he is pondering.

My take as both an employee and a manager is that turnover is essential to the fabric of a company. He needs to decide who can go and figure out how to deal with the short-term fallout.

I think the vision ( No, this is not a HOT Rod shop just images of a shop we can relate to ) would be to go from this:

To something with a more obvious workflow like this

Pretty sure we could all walk into the first shop and either be right at home and not want to ever change a thing, or else see the obvious lack of efficiency and want to tear the place down to the foundation and start over. Course, the owner needs to survive financially and approve of the changes!

Makes for interesting conversations in the Molvo assembly area.

Pete

While I didn’t read all the posts in detail, my recommendation is similar to what is used as a selling point in lean manufacturing (not understaffed, but the 5S stuff).

He needs to sell the old guys on the idea that the new guy is doing things that will make their job easier. 

The improvements in fixtures, workflow, and organization can be a way to make their job easier and save them hassle without having to do the work to make it happen. 

It may take some work to get them to give it a chance, maybe a trial period, to see if it makes it easier. Once it’s in place they may like it, or at least see it as not worth the effort to go back to the old way.

If the old guys can be sold on the idea that this is intended to help them and make things easier for them, then they may be less resistant to the changes. 

Better than a quiet bonus would be something much more visible.  If there are CNC machines in shop, there's also likely to be CAM software, maintenance systems, etc.  Send new guy out for training.  If he goes, there's a reason you could put behind a raise, and in my experience, there's usually gains in efficiency to be made through training on most software packages, as they update so frequently.  As a bonus, the old guys won't be being shown up as badly if he comes back from training with some more suggestions(it's not the smart-arse know-it-all newcomers idea, it's just what he got told in training). 

travellering said:

Better than a quiet bonus would be something much more visible.  If there are CNC machines in shop, there's also likely to be CAM software, maintenance systems, etc.  Send new guy out for training.  If he goes, there's a reason you could put behind a raise, and in my experience, there's usually gains in efficiency to be made through training on most software packages, as they update so frequently.  As a bonus, the old guys won't be being shown up as badly if he comes back from training with some more suggestions(it's not the smart-arse know-it-all newcomers idea, it's just what he got told in training). 

 

That has been discussed as a way to create some redundancy in the shop. New guy has never operated a CNC router, but while over fixing it ( machine had overridden a travel limit sensor and locked itself in a corner)  new guy did notice that the spindle speed and feed rate was always the same regardless of what material was being cut and figured that tooling might last longer if it was fine tuned for the job. Mentioned this to the boss.  Boss knows nothing about machining , so does not feel comfortable bringing it up with the operator. My suggestion is he contact the tooling company for specs and training so that it comes from them.

NOHOME said:

 My suggestion is he contact the tooling company for specs and training so that it comes from them.

 

Very good suggestion. In my experience, 30+ years worth, the tooling co. reps are generally very knowledgeable and eager to help. I've had some spend 2 or 3 days working with the machinists to fine tune the process and find the proper tooling for the job.

This is a good discussion.

I have just left a job where I was the "new guy", I worked my ass off, and got the shop guys to respect, even like me, but the boss' son and I butted heads. They put more responsibility on me, while letting the old guys coast. Finally, they asked me to take on more responsibility for zero pay raise. I pleaded my case for a raise, and was subject to subject changing, evasion, even intimidation from the boss' son. I got a new job, and was told I was betraying their investment by leaving. It felt good to tell them exactly how I felt in my "exit interview". They simply didn't want to change.

wheelsmithy said:

I got a new job, and was told I was betraying their investment by leaving. 

The investment a company puts into you is only as good as their effort to keep you there. I like to keep my perspective grounded by reminding myself that if I were to die unexpectedly, my company would most likely have my newly vacant position posted before my obituary even hit the paper.

You are running a business not a club.   Do what is necc.

In reply to iceracer :

That's only partly true. 

I completely understand the mentality of a small business that becomes more like a club. 

If the goal of the owner is to sell the company to a big corporation for profit one day, then yeah, you're right. 

But small business is life to a huge number of people- the vast majority. These businesses are family, and doing "what is necessary" for the health of the family is significantly different than doing what is necessary for the company profitability.