How to manage this personel situation

But in doing what is necessary to improve efficiency will improve productivity and help make the shop more competitive. Drive down operating costs will help drive down the end item costs. We all know that will increase profits and also reduces the cost of the product to the contract company. That will help keep work coming in instead of being passed off to another company that can supply for cheaper. Seen a few good shops close up over not keeping up. 

If the machines are setup for specific jobs and the machinist can only do that job, what makes them so able to move on to another company? They would have to be trained by the new company which would be really close to what the improvements the new guy is trying to implement. Would be smarter to adapt at current shop, benefit all.

Based on numerous very telling statements you made, the shop owner does not seem to be any more effective in any of the roles required of a business owner than his long-time employees are in their roles.  As such he is unlikely to be any more effective at being an agent of change for his employees, until after he figures out how to make that change in himself first.  

Out of curiosity, if not this type of work, what type of background does the 'new guy' have?

And yes in CNC machinery, there are operators and there are machinists...Much as in manual machinery there are machinists and there are artists.

wheelsmithy said:

I have just left a job where I was the "new guy", I worked my ass off, and got the shop guys to respect, even like me, but the boss' son and I butted heads. They put more responsibility on me, while letting the old guys coast. Finally, they asked me to take on more responsibility for zero pay raise. I pleaded my case for a raise, and was subject to subject changing, evasion, even intimidation from the boss' son. I got a new job, and was told I was betraying their investment by leaving. It felt good to tell them exactly how I felt in my "exit interview". They simply didn't want to change.

Dysfunctional management goes out of business eventually.  I  have seen it  happen numerous times in small family run businesses and in larger businesses.   Make poor decisions you end up poor.

In reply to Driven5 :

what type of background does the 'new guy' have?

From what I gather a jack of all trades master of none sort.

The owner is one of those situations where one day he is running a machine in a similar shop thinking "I could do this and make all the $$$" who then found himself running a company doing what he used to do. One of the great ironies of people going into a business, is that they think their talents at whatever the product is, is going to be of much use when running a business.

We had Safety Meetings every Tuesday am.  Discussed safety, jobs coming and going, workload forecast, housekeeping etc.  Have a meeting and tell everyone (not just the Old Guard) that the world is changing and we have to jump on or get kicked off.

Old guys have to change the mindset.

In reply to NOHOME :

Yeah, that's pretty much textbook based on your previous comments. We're not talking about a personnel problem here, we're talking about a leadership problem.

If the new employee doesn't have any leadership background himself, then he's only a small (but valuable) part of the solution. The owner may want to start giving serious consideration to his motivations are for opening/operating the business and whether or not this is what he really wants to be doing. If no, then he's probably better off finding somebody to provide the lacking leadership for him or sell to somebody else who can. If yes, then he needs to learn how to become an effective leader...And fast. Because now that the new employee has illuminated the depth of the problem, it's only going to become more prevalent.

People who have never owned a business always have great advice for how to run a business. 

SVreX said:

People who have never owned a business always have great advice for how to run a business. 

Sell services or goods at a rate that is profitable. That's it in a nutshell, right? 

In reply to Brett_Murphy :

It's like listening to people without kids telling people how to parent. 

SVreX said:

In reply to Brett_Murphy :

It's like listening to people without kids telling people how to parent. 

I don't think it really matters if they have kids or not! Parenting is a unique game.

Slightly off topic: When I was a bright-eyed new guy working with a group of olds hands that were set in their ways, I moved things forward by going to the most stalwart member of the bunch and asking him for help. My approach was, "I think found a tool / process change that will simplify 'X' (something that was a pain in the ass). You have far more experience with 'X' than I do. Would you go through this with me? I want to make sure the critical details are covered before I suggest anything."

It worked because he liked being the old master mentoring the kid. I would get him on board by giving him plenty of time to ask questions and satisfy himself that was going to make his life easier. I made sure to publicly acknowledge his help when something got implemented.

The funny thing was after a couple of years of this, I got laid off and he stayed during a business downturn. His reaction was to give me an absolutely golden lead on an unadvertised job opening at different company. He heard about it from a family member. I was able to my resume on the hiring manager's desk before anyone else. A month later I was working there.

I once worked in a double glazing factory and got shifted through almost all the positions once I mastered each one as the super always said was the plan.  Some guys never moved.  Well they did move.  The same repetitive limited motions over and over again.  Sad thing is I believe they were way more competent/capable than my drop out ass ever could have been they just didn't try/care.  Oh yeah I can never understand why I suffered so many cuts unflinchingly saw a few that were terrible but didn't faze me but if you even talk about a paper cut I shudder. 

I don't think I read if the OP knows what the new guy wants out if this career. Or the kind of work taken in by this shop. 

So some random thoughts:

1. Leadership is prime issue. Boss man needs to figure out how to keep the shop's good culture chunks and explain to the family that they can ride it out until everyone is ready to retire then shutdown or build a business for after them. For new guy and others. 
2. To give more time to figure things out give new guy and someone they get along with a job to develop a new capability for the shop. Fast prototype cell, round robin machine maintenance for 6 months, or schedule cutting tool supplier visits. Involve everyone else as best you can 
3. Safety stuff has to be dealt with. Don't let new guy lead safety stuff. This one has to be a top down push from a place of caring for the shop family.
4. Old guys need to own the change. New guy needs to understand teamwork skills of not pushing too hard.
5. To be honest new guy just might not fit culture of the shop.

Infinite options available. As long as no one is attacked and permanently damaged just make some decisions.

It sounds like the old guys are pretty much indispensable at their tasks, no one is cross trained, and loss of any of them will cripple the business. On top of that, they are somewhat lax on safety. How does the owner get any sleep at night? The new guy sounds like a quick learner with a lot of natural ability. How about training him as a back up on the other machines? A little insurance for the business, and a bit of flexibility for the other guys if they need a day off.  Let the old guys train him. Sometimes training someone else makes one step up their game, and feel more important. Maybe even give the old guys a training bonus. 

Leadership.  Had the boss woman critique us today for not picking up checks quick enough so she could cram new customers in and then complaining that she had to pick up checks so she could cram new customers in. 

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

In my limited experience that new guy (me) learns the important stuff for the same pay and stays after everyone leaves and is still there when they come back into work fourteen hours later whence they cluelessly state that you're still there. 

It is strange that modern production methods get the most out of specialization but perversely then demand cross training. 

In my current job we have some very religious people who have to have food without certain ingredients.  Do I agree with that?  Hells to the no.  I believe all food is clean.  But many of their compatriots are cheapskates so there's no point in being antagonistic.  Today the obstinate line cook wouldn't cook it for them without a 20min wait.  I told them that with barely concealed contempt for my cook.  Best tip in a while from culturally bad tippers.  Helps to have more sympathy for a religion you don't accept than for a co-worker sadly. 

In reply to SVreX :

Having been physically capable of mixing ones own DNA with that of another does not inherently make one any more qualified to be a parent, than having been financially capable of owning a business inherently makes one qualified to run it.

In either case there are plenty who are strangers to the former characteristic, but are intimately familiar with the latter, whose voice of experience should not be so easily discounted or dismissed.... Just as there are plenty of the opposite affiliation, whose voice of experience should serve as little more than a word of caution on what not to do.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

Pretty good summary. 

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days. It's all comes down to the owner.

What does he want. Does he want to expand? Is he comfortable where he is in life and business? If no to the first and yes to the second, he might be better off letting the new guy go before he stirs the pot too much. If he rocks the boat too much, even the old steady guys will start being dissatisfied. 

If he want's more business and a better, more profitable shop, then it might pay to listen to the new guy and glean what he can. There is the possibility that the new guy is going to get bored and move on before long. He sounds like he could be someone who is a jack of all trades and master of none because he doesn't stay in one job long enough to master it. 

He also needs to keep in mind that the line between moving forward and broke is pretty thin, and you really don't want to cross it. 

I just wish I could find a couple of people that are willing to show up for work. I would love a couple of old guys that were steady and willing to do the same job for years. I wouldn't mind a new guy with a fresh point of view either. 

To be clear, I am a fly on this wall. Have no dog in the fight.

My interest is from the perspective of having been involved in three start-ups so far and in innate curiosity about corporate culture/work-place dynamics. What I have learned is that  owners needs to work on the business and not in the business if the place is going to grow. If that is not the case, then the owner needs to declare to himself that it is a lifestyle company and treat it as such. The owner of this company works very hard and want to be the best at what he used to do before the became the owner.

The owner leans on the new guy as if he were the shop manager, and yet he is probably the lowest paid person in the plant. "No money for raises". Yet, old guys are clocking/generating overtime by moving slow.

I cant wait to see where this ends in about a year.

Pete

In reply to NOHOME :

What is your connection with this business? 

Driven5 said:

In reply to SVreX :

Having been physically capable of mixing ones own DNA with that of another does not inherently make one any more qualified to be a parent, than having been financially capable of owning a business inherently makes one qualified to run it.

In either case there are plenty who are strangers to the former characteristic, but are intimately familiar with the latter, whose voice of experience should not be so easily discounted or dismissed.... Just as there are plenty of the opposite affiliation, whose voice of experience should serve as little more than a word of caution on what not to do.

Please note:  

My very first post in this thread was a comment about how this is a good discussion. I have discounted no one's perspective. 

I have however, presented a couple of opposing perspectives based on owning 5 separate businesses, and knowing hundreds of business owners. 

I agree completely with the suggestions to make things right. However, I also know the reality. It's not a perfect world. The likelihood this guy is gonna change is slim to none. He owns the business, and its meeting his needs (both financial and emotional). 

Make sure you are not the one discounting opinions you disagree with. 

In reply to SVreX :

Just as I thoughtfully disagreed with your sarcastic remarks, I thoughtfully disagree that this business sounds likely to be genuinely meeting the owner's emotional or financial needs. While I do agree on your assessment of a culture common to small businesses, and that like most people he is unlikely to substantially change, by all accounts he is not actually doing what is necessary to for the health of the family/business.  

SVreX said:

Please note:  

 I have discounted no one's perspective. 

Based on your comments on the last page I respectfully disagree.

Nonetheless, inasmuch as D5 is right , your statements about child rearing, business ownership and the related responses bring little to the discussion