Huh, about the US' employment problem

In reply to xd:

Ok your reading comprehension levels just aren't there for you to understand what I typed. You can't be reasoned with because you refuse to be honest about what you are reading. I know how TB is spread. The high population in illegals is because they bring it with them not because they got it in prison. You ignorance seems to be willful either by not wanting to understand or by an inability to process clearly written wording.

My facts aren't bullE36 M3 but I understand why you need so badly to believe they are.

By the way "those who haven't committed crimes" would automatically negate any "illegal" immigrants. Not only are they here illegally but if they work now they either are doing so under the table violated federal and state tax laws or are using a stolen SS number and committing SS fraud. Any money acquired by working illegally that is wired out of country would be the crime of wire fraud.

Please quote me where I said anything about mexicans? You can't. If you need to be dishonest to make arguments to argue against it only makes you look bad and your arguments weak. More so when it comes after the assertions I'm not capable of reading something. Now on to your canard about english speaking Canadians. Illegal means illegal, that you need to make up a straw man in regards to language shows again just how intellectually dishonest you are willing to be.

When you want to have a meaningful discussion and wont resort to argumentative fallacies get back to me. For now you simply do not have the upper level reasoning skills to hold a discussion with out resorting to intellectually dishonesty. Thats a shame really because this is an important subject. But if all you are going to do is muddy the waters you frankly aren't worth the time.

In reply to SVreX: Correct. How ever most VISA will not be processed if the applicant doesn't speak English.

It is Canada and Australia that require VISA holders to speak english.

/blockquote>

I don't know the term "anchor babies" might have been a tip off. Maybe this was also a clue

" I'm sure where you live but just around the DC area you have to be able to speak spanish to get almost anything at a fast food joint. "

"My facts aren't bullE36 M3"

You have actually have included no facts at all and I really don't think you know how TB is spread cause if you do you would see the flaw with your "facts". I really don't even think you know what "facts" are.

Let me make this as elementary as possible so you might understand this time. In prisons illegal immigrants are kept in there own section and as stated above TB is an airborne disease. So if one person in this closed space has it is likely that the whole population has been exposed to it. Also illegal immigrants are not the only people coming into prisons with TB There are a lot of non illegals coming into the prison system with TB and I am sure your "study" took a look at the other populations in the prison system and compared them.

Now lets look at some more of your bullE36 M3 "facts"

The VISA thing has already been proven to be wrong.

You saying that "TB was all but eradicated in America" That was proven to be false.

"These entry level jobs for teens are now filled with people who are in their 30s and have no hope of advancing." They always were. + now I could make the same statement about any lower class of people be it "trailer trash" or any other you can pick.

Lets see this is my favorite thing you have said

"you simply do not have the upper level reasoning skills to hold a discussion with out resorting to intellectually dishonesty."

You should really read that again because every "fact" you have written has either proven to be false or just made up to suit your own purpose. Please continue with your education professor.

Gwinnett County, which was once a nice place to live, and now looks like a berkeleying third-world country due to the illegals from South America and Asia, and incidence of foreign born TB:

http://www.georgiaaids.org/files/0810GER.pdf

ThePhranc wrote: In reply to SVreX: Correct. How ever most VISA will not be processed if the applicant doesn't speak English. It is Canada and Australia that require VISA holders to speak english.

Are these more of your "facts" professor!

You can speak French and get a Canadian visa.

I knew rex was smart. I had no idea he was a professor!

Xd:

Take a breath. You appear to be taking this pretty personally.

Name calling and personal attacks on reading comprehension, intelligence, etc. are not necessary.

You are correct on some issues. You have worded things poorly on others. Either way, name calling will lose you credibility whether you are right or wrong.

mad_machine wrote:

corytate wrote: alot of the people who have been getting deported came in legally and did not continue the process. their seven years are up, their licenses expire IMMEDIATELY because of laws like the one NC passed, and they get tickets for driving with expired licenses. They get deported for committing a "crime" and have to start over in the country that they left in order to pursue a life where they could actually have meaningful employment afterthe age of 35. dont try to dispute the fact that this goes on, I have family that is living it right now.

I have seen this twice with co-workers, One was married to an Lady from the Balkens and the INS was dragging it's feet on her paperwork.. to the point where she couldn't legally do anything but sit at home. They couldn't deport her, but she couldn't work, couldn't get a DL, she couldn't even enroll their kid in school. The other was a korean lady I worked with (And love) who every year, the casinos had to fire her because her time in the states was up. But because she was married to am american, she could not be deported. Three months of paperwork and aggravation later, she was back to work. the US could make it a LOT easier on it's legal aliens

my wife's residency is finally straightened out (about $5k later), but now we need to rush on her sponsoring her parents and brother so that they can actually drive to work and he can go to college or join the military (hes in 9th grade and wants to be a marine as of now)
and to the statement about them still being offenders and not victims, yes this is obviously, technically, true, but don't we have bigger things to be worrying about than people who work and pay taxes and didn't renew their visas in time because they thought they were gonna move back to south america?

poopshovel wrote: ...Because what we really need is more unskilled illiterate laborers looking for a handout.

Just have them move to CA. We are in the process of passing a Bill (SB131)that will pay for their college tuition. The poor Americans get grants and financial aid. The rich can afford to pay cash for college. The middle class "make too much" to qualify for any help so they just get to burden themselves with a lifetime of student loan payments. Take care of legitimate Americans first, then with all the "extra" tax money you can feed, clothe, and educate illegals.

As for "jobs Americans won't do"- it's an unfair arguement. The illegals have biased the payscale of such jobs that we won't do it for as cheap as them. How much do they need to make when they live in a tent, or a house with 20 other illegals, and get free health care and education? 2/3 of their paycheck is typically sent south of the border to their families. So they are not even participating in our economy.

In reply to ThePhranc:

Forgetting the rest of your oddball rant, TB is most definitely a problem because of the airborne transmission from host to host, regardless of its origin. Now if a person coming back from the Ukraine brings it, or an illegal brings it in over the Rio Grande, it still passed through the air. saying its not the way its passed, its who passes it is like saying you didnt get wet because you fell in water, you got wet because you failed to stay out of the lake.

Please soaund liek moar smartter

Cone_Junky wrote: As for "jobs Americans won't do"- it's an unfair arguement. The illegals have biased the payscale of such jobs that we won't do it for as cheap as them. How much do they need to make when they live in a tent, or a house with 20 other illegals, and get free health care and education? 2/3 of their paycheck is typically sent south of the border to their families. So they are not even participating in our economy.

+1 There is much more here than meets the eye.

Apologies this is going to be a bit rambling or disjointed...

Background; My parents are immigrants, refugees from Vietnam. They had to leave because my dad was higher ranking on the South Vietnamese side fighting alongside the US. They had no choice but to leave, it was hard but they did things the right way, built businesses and paid their dues, took the tests and became naturalized. I now live in SoCal and I see a lot of things that bother me.

People driving without license, insurance, getting into accidents and who gets the shaft? The guy who plays by the rules and has insurance and registration and a license. He has to pay for uninsured/underinsured coverage as well as increased premiums due to how many ppl are insured vs uninsured. Or if he doesn't have that coverage, he's out a car. And if that's his only car?

Housing, cars and jobs... if the low wage jobs such as fast food, cheaper housing and cars available have a higher demand, which they do due to illegals, what happens to the prices? They go up. Then what? How is anyone trying to get a single family home going to be able to put more money back into the economy when they have to compete with 5 families in a 4 bedroom home with one in the garage who sends money out of the country? So we get cheaper produce but things like cars and homes are inflated due to demand and supply so what does that do to the argument that illegals allow us a cheaper cost of living?

Schools being full of kids who need extra help to learn a language they don't know, from families who don't have much education themselves so what does that do to the test scores? Drains resources and brings down test scores and affects funding? And having to have things printed in any multitude of languages, yes we don't have an "official" language by law, but the money to offer forms and announcements in all those languages comes from taxpayers.

Emergency rooms that are full of nonemergent items that should normally be taken care of at their primary care doctors. So if you have a real reason to be there, you might have to wait for your turn even if your injury/condition gets you priority, no room means no room. And you have ppl who know hospitals won't turn away anyone, sometimes lie about their names/addresses/social security numbers to get care. Who pays for all that?

It's a very touchy subject, some people want to throw the racism card around or do open doors and have everyone else pay to support people who will not contribute enough to offset what they take.

Yes our immigration policy and process is not efficient and flawed, where immigrants trying to do it the right way have to jump through hoops and pay thousands to prove they want to be here and contribute to making our country and their lives better. We need to address that. We also need to have some policy that allows for migrant workers to come and work and then go home. Amnesty is a slap in the face to legal immigrants and will not help our country.

This isn't about color or race, it just so happens that where I am, the majority are from South America due to proximity. Illegal immigrants and a welfare state are big problems that we need to address.

DuctTape&Bondo wrote: Illegal immigrants and a welfare state are big problems that we need to address.

Yes, definitely.

This is a great thread, keep the name calling and personal attacks out of it and we have a civilized political debate going on.

BTW As a legal immigrant and now a citizen I am all for enforcing these laws, it was good enough for me.

Slightly off topic but I have a question for Aussie, Corytate and any others who have gone thru the application for citizenship process.

What are your feelings about the process?

I know a fellow who came here from Germany on a student visa. He eventually got a BSME from a well known university and then a Masters from the same school. He did have some scholarships and was a GA while working on his Masters.

Main point is that becoming a citizen cost almost as much and took longer than his schooling did. To me that seems rather ridiculous and makes the whole process almost unatainable for many.

It is a protracted process, it takes a long time but they need to investigate and check out each person and confirm their reasons for emigrating. I was fingerprinted, an FBI and Australian Criminal history search was done.

There is a series of interviews and you are required to bring proof to each interview.

I think the process is difficult and it should be, you need to jump through some hoops to be able to become a legal citizen.

I had to drive to Cleveland (180 miles) several times for these interviews.

All in all I thought the process was very reasonable, I just hope they actually did those background checks.

Hal wrote: Slightly off topic but I have a question for Aussie, Corytate and any others who have gone thru the application for citizenship process. What are your feelings about the process? I know a fellow who came here from Germany on a student visa. He eventually got a BSME from a well known university and then a Masters from the same school. He did have some scholarships and was a GA while working on his Masters. Main point is that becoming a citizen cost almost as much and took longer than his schooling did. To me that seems rather ridiculous and makes the whole process almost unatainable for many.

I haven't gone through the citizenship application yet (I'm not eligible for US citizenship for another sixteen months if everything stays as it is) but being German, there is another issue that will have taken up a lot of time, namely that you can't take another country's citizenship unless you have permission from the German government to do so. If you don't get said permission, you lose the German citizenship, and getting that permission isn't that easy.

In general, as a legal immigrant and greencard holder I would say there are improvements to the process that would help (even though those of us coming over on a family/marriage visa have it comparatively easy). This isn't specific to the US, actually, a lot of countries have a rather complicated process until you can become a legal resident. Oddly enough the ones that tend to make it fairly easy seem to benefit from the process.

TBH you don't need citizenship to live here for decades (via some German expats forum I'm aware of several GC holders that have done that/are doing it) but these days it's a smart move if you are eligible - since 9/11 the rules have been interpreted in a far more stringent way and GC holders have been deported for petty crimes that occurred decades in the past (shoplifting as a teenager in one case that I was aware of, and that happened over 25 years before the deportation) and never bothered anybody before. Plus of course the other bonus is that you get to pay taxes to the US government even if you don't live here anymore .

I'm seriously thinking about putting off the citizenship or no citizenship decision for a while even after I become eligible to see if I feel "American enough" to take this step or not. It's not a simple step, especially if you find that you might become an illegal alien in the country you were born in if you do so...

Tim,

I waited until Australia accepted dual citizenship before I gained my citizenship. It delayed my application but I wasn't prepared to give up my home either

What does berkeleying mean? and why does e36 m3 = sh!t

In reply to Rocco R16V:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassroots_Motorsports

As long as the punishment for hiring illegal labor isn't overbearing and laxly enforced, it will continue to happen, and people will continue to come here in order to earn a living.

Just grant amnesty to those already here, then just start collecting their taxes. I have no problem with them being here, I just want them to cover their fair share of the tab.

4cylndrfury wrote: Just grant amnesty to those already here, then just start collecting their taxes. I have no problem with them being here, I just want them to cover their fair share of the tab.

how do you go about verifying who these people are?

how do you know all of them will step forward and accept this amnesty? what do you do with the illegals that don't want it?

who pays for all of this, and what government bureaucracy is in charge of making sure it goes smoothly?

what message will this send to the people that spend decades of their lives and tens of thousands of dollars trying to do it the "right" way?

Luke 10:25-37

Leviticus 19:34

4cylndrfury wrote: In reply to ThePhranc: Forgetting the rest of your oddball rant, TB is most definitely a problem because of the airborne transmission from host to host, regardless of its origin. Now if a person coming back from the Ukraine brings it, or an illegal brings it in over the Rio Grande, it still passed through the air. saying its not the way its passed, its who passes it is like saying you didnt get wet because you fell in water, you got wet because you failed to stay out of the lake. Please soaund liek moar smartter

Please read like more smarter. Its not my fault you missed my point and didn't understand what you read.

We can't have an intelligent discussion because too many people still can't agree on basic precepts, like:

People who come here without following the rules are CRIMINALS.

We can't even get people to agree on this simple fact, being a law-breaker makes you a criminal. Until people accept this, the discussion simply can't move forward.

It doesn't matter if you're not calling them bad people, it doesn't matter if they aren't as bad as murderers, it doesn't matter if you don't care if they come and go across borders as they please; none of that matters in the slightest.

Its like trying to have a discussion on gender relations when you can't agree who's male and female.