Husqvarna or Honda? My forever mower

Uncle David (Forum Supporter) said:

For 0.2 AC (minus house and driveway footprint), if I didn't want a battery mower (which I totally would want for 0.2 acres), and if I had to buy new, I'd buy the cheapest, simplest 21" gas mower I could get at Lowes Depot.  Change the oil and sharpen the blade once a season, and replace the air filter and spark plug every few years (or not).  You should totally get 15 years out of it.  My previous mower was one of those; I inherited it from my grandfather in 1991 (it was newish then), and finally gave up on it in 2016.  It was still sort of running, but I had to be careful to not clean the underside, because the dried grass plugged the holes in the deck. 

This paragraph is exactly why I usually mow with whatever I find in someone's trash pile.  They're so simple that they just run forever.  My current one was free, but I did support my neighbor's budding sharpening business and splurged on a $6 blade sharpening.  As far as I can tell, the only reason this one was in the trash was because the self-propel cable fell off the handle.  I honestly put the cable back on and it started on the first pull.

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Sorry, guys.  You will not convert me to electric.  As someone who worked in warranty repair for lawnmowers for many years, I have been inside of their guts and dealt with the irate customers. 

Will
not
do
it
period.

Why not? Genuinely curious, not trying to convince you as you’re obviously more familiar with them. 

I want to start this by saying I'm not poo-pooing your choice.  They are a great choice for some.

Batteries have a fixed life.  It's just chemistry.  There are a certain number of charge cycles they will endure and then they're done.  At $250 to replace them, that just buys a new mower.  Battery mowers are also proprietary.  It would be one thing if they used a group 24 lead-acid battery and an off-the shelf motor, but they are highly specialized parts that only fit that mower, and that mower is only produced for about 2 years.  My SWMBO just had to buy batteries for her mower.  Two of the larger mAh batteries cost her $400, and she had to buy them reman from a sketchy Ebay seller because they don't make them anymore.

Contrast that with your typical gas mower.  They are so universal, it's frightening.  You can take a Honda aluminum deck from the 80s, slap on any free Kohler, Briggs, Honda, Robin, LawnBoy 2-stroke, or Tecumseh and keep mowing.  It will take one of about two blade styles which have always been available for the last 40 years and every store has about 20 in stock for $8

In my experience on the warranty and repair side, Ryobi and E-go (the big names) are notorious for denying warranty claims.  In order to stay competitive in the sales side of things, they have to provide a financially-approachable pricetag.  This means they make less profit than (for instance) Honda does when they sell a fancy model.  When it comes to warranty, they will do ANYTHING to weasel out of fixing it because their profits are slimmer and they can't afford it.  E-go went as far as spending a ton of money engineering a logic chip that records simple data about temperature and charge cycles.  They spent that money so they could deny warranty claims and save money.  Instead of just honoring warranties, they spent money to screw people OUT of warranties.  Imagine the irate customers when they bring in their 1-year old battery and I put it on the tester and tell them, sorry, this battery has been overheated... by normal use.... like everyone else.  They didn't do anything wrong, but the company spent money to put a chip in that was designed to lie and say they did.

In my experience, everyone loves their FIRST cordless mower, but rarely buy a second one because the short life and parts replacement cost tends to make those $500 Hondas look cheap.  When you're in the store hearing that you'll have to spend $400 on replacement batteries after getting shafted by the company, or you can buy a $200 Toro that will last for 20 years

They do make sense on the environmental side, or for people who actually make a living wage unlike myself.  If I knew I would have the money for replacing batteries, I would likely hug a tree and get one, I just don't dig the known short life span compared to a $25 used Kohler.  I have given thought to upping the compression on a gas mower, hogging out the jet, and running it on E85.

Cordless = more expensive and proprietary, but environmentally friendly
Gas = forged sledge hammer that clubs baby seals but lasts forever.

1988RedT2 said:

0.2 acres?

If you have some objection to a goat (how could you?) then I would offer that this is the Husqvarna for you:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PGBSGXQ?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

I think I'd rather have the goat.

We've got a little over 1/3 acre of grass.  I'm 100% done with gas powered anything for yard work.  I've yet to find a gas powered yard tool that last more than a year before you start having carb issues.  Part of that might be ethanol gas.  Come on, ethanol gas has been a fact of life for decades now so I have zero sympathy for something that needs me to go significantly out of my way and pay more for ethanol free gas.  Also despite using a filter when I fill up, crap always gets in there.  Even without having to rebuild the carb every year to keep it running I'm sick of hard to start, I'm sick of noise, not just my machine, but all the others in the neighborhood.  I'm sick of the vibration.    Also for the rest of the family the weight is a real issue. I've just had it up to here with gas powered E36 M3.

We already have a battery weed wacker and a corded blower, but after the stupid gas mower started acting up again the other week I reached the end of my tether.  I went out and went all electric as of yesterday.  Well actually my wife did.  I'm still working full time so she headed off to two Lowes with my car and the trailer and came back with this lot.

Now some background.  I bought my last Toro mower about 5 years ago.  At that point I had said my next mower would be a Honda as I believe Honda make the best small engines on the planet.  So I went and got the biggest baddest Honda walk behind mower Home Depot had.  I got it home and it was just too heavy for my (then 14 year old) daughter to use.  So I went back and got a smaller Honda.  Same issue.  I ended up getting the same style Toro as I'd had previously.  Had to totally replace the carb after two years and have it apart at least once a year since then.  Some contaminants, but most often green jelly build up.  Within the 12 months (could be less, I don't recall) of me getting the Toro, my next door neighbor bought one of the early Kobalt 80V mowers with a 2ah battery.  Even now 4 years later and one battery having been left outside over a Michigan winter in the mower,  I  borrowed his mower and can do my yard on less than two 2ah batteries (he has three batteries between his mower and weed wacker).  I looked around, and while not a Lowes fan (I much prefer HD) I ended up with the Kobalt as well.  As far as I can tell mowers, like so many things, are all made in a few factories and only the color and labels are really different from brand to brand.  Kobalt seem to have the best specs and by far the best warranty.  So I bought the new 80V 6ah version.  I cut my yard last night, which was way overdue as I'd been without a working mower for 10 days and so it was too long, and it did it like a champ.  I still had one (of four) bars showing charge level at the end.  Some of the grass was really thick, but it powered through like a champ.  Best of all I could hear my podcast through my ear buds not even at full volume.  Stupid gas mower needed ear defenders over the ear buds.  From inside the house my wife didn't even know I was mowing the yard.  When I was done I came in smelling of fresh cut grass, not exhaust fumes.  I honestly wish I'd just bought even the 2ah 80V mower 4-5 years ago.  So glad I finally did it.

EDIT. LOL, so it turns out berkeley!ng is even filtered on photo's.  The above pic was titled 'No more berkeley!ing gas' on my hard drive and wouldn't display when I posted it until I changed the name to 'No more borking gas'!!! 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

 

I think I'd rather have the goat.

I mean, who wouldn't.  Right?

And I bet you can get a really nice goat for $1000.

I have never (and I mean never) had carb issues that couldn't be solved with 3 minutes of pulling the bowl off and squirting brake cleaner through the jet.  I get it.  Some people just don't like gas stuff, but for me, the care and feeding of a battery is more effort than 3 minutes cleaning a carb.  I have a cordless blower on my bench right now that the charger failed and cooked all 24 of the 18650-style batteries in the pack.  It is about 3 months old and I doubt it was used 5 times.  I just can't do it.

Working in small engine repair, I've seen a million and a half crusty carbs so I know it's a problem for some, but I don't know why it isn't for me.

I buy cheap gas, I don't winterize, and I don't use stabilizer.  In october I shove the lawnmower in the corner and in May I get it out and it starts on the first pull.  Every time.  It doesn't matter if it's brand new or 30 years old.  Just yesterday I resurrected a weed whacker that has been in storage for 6 years.  The bowl was full of sludge, so 5 minutes of cleaning it out and it started right up.

I would rather spend 5 minutes every 6 years than $400 for new batteries.

And ethanol isn't the issue.  Never was.  Starting in 2008, the EPA had new requirements for small engine emissions.  Just like cars in the early 70s, they suddenly had a crapload of hoops to jump through to get them to run so lean and they were junk.  They farmed out carb manufacturing to China almost exclusively, and (at the time) Chinese manufacturing wasn't up to par.  They used cheap alloys of aluminum and brass and they reacted with the organic compounds that occur when gasoline and moisture mix.  Ethanol actually helps that, not hurts it.

Some people go pay $4/gal for ethanol free gas, or buy those quarts of special no ethanol gas at Home Depot for something like $32/gal.  Then they buy special fuel stabilizer... which has ethanol in it.  When their old carbureted car runs funny, they go and buy fuel line/gas drier... which is 99% by volume ethanol.

Ethanol isn't the devil.  Cheap manufacturing is.

But this is not a debate about electric vs gas.  I'm buying a gas mower.  Period.  Thanks for the recommendations, but NO ELECTRIC 

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

My understanding about the Li-Ion batteries is they don't like being charged when it's really cold outside.  Otherwise, it's not an issue.  I still tend to bring mine in for the winter, just to be safe.  I've had an 80v Kobalt trimmer for almost 4 years now (I assume the 2ah version; it's out in the shed).  While I have a fairy small yard, the linear feet of trimming is fairly decent (two driveways, around the house, sidewalk, parts cars, etc...) and I can usually get two sessions out of a charge, including using a blower attachment for sweeping the sidewalk.  It takes the generic add-on devices also sold at Lowes (hedge trimmer, pole saw, blower, etc) for other trimmers.  Eventually, I will run power out to the shed so I can have a charging station out there.

1988RedT2 said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

 

I think I'd rather have the goat.

I mean, who wouldn't.  Right?

And I bet you can get a really nice goat for $1000.

My folks don't really have a lawn, but over an acre of obnoxious weeds. They've had goats and used them to great effect. Low maintenance, most of the feed is free, you get a cool horned pet too. And I think 4 goats now over the years, all but one for free. They can be had cheap if you know some rancher types or if you can find some 4H kids that breed goats. I like goats. 

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

OK, let me rephrase that.  I'm sick of gas engines.  I'm sick of them never running right, whether that's gas, emissions, crappy manufacturing tolerances, worn tooling, poor maintenance on my behalf or whatever.  I'm also sick of the noise, vibration, smell and weight of gas powered tools.  I'm most sick of hard to start engines on things like weed whackers that are either a) two stroke, or b) even if four stroke run pre-mix due to the angles involved.  If I had one plus acres and had a ride on, it may be different, but for my 1/3ish acre suburban lot I hate hate hate gas mowers.  I'm 100% over gas powered anything for yard work and I'm happy about it.  Also, battery life seems better than people expected.  As I say my I could still cut my whole yard on 2x 2ah batteries that are 4-5 years old, so I'm not too worried about battery life, but that is part of the reason I got the biggest battery size available, so even when I lose some efficiency / capacity I should still be in good shape.  

YMMV

P.S. In case I wasnt' clear, I hate gas mowers!!!!!!

On the goats, I realize it was mainly meant as a joke but it's not the worst idea.  I know some areas, especially around Atlanta, have 'rent a goat' for getting rid of Kudzu, which I think is a great idea.  My family all want animals, I'm so glad out village doesn't allow chickens or I'd have lost that battle long ago.  Both girls started working at the local pet store, the 19 year old is still there.  The eldest is going to be a vet, so I'm surrounded by animal lovers (as am I) who want acreage and animals.  I'm 100% against it.  I grew up in the country, my sister had a horse.  I don't mean had a horse in the upper middle class kind of way were you pay to keep it at a livery stables.  I mean she rented a field with a little one stall barn in the corner and went there every day before and after school.  I had a girlfriend who's father was a dairy farmer.  I know first hand how much work livestock is.  I understand when snow collapses the roof on the milking shed on Christmas day, the day is canceled while you call all your neighbors and send cows all over the place as you can't NOT milk a cow.  The rest of the family know that if we ever have the land and money I 100% refuse to be involved in animal husbandry.  I'll build them the fences or barns, but don't ask me to lift one finger to help.  Lived it, not doing it.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

P.S. In case I wasnt' clear, I hate gas mowers!!!!!!

  In case I wasn't clear, I hate battery operated things!!!!

Curtis, have you considered a battery powered Mower???

Also... What about this Husky? Probably the most forever of all the mowers they offer.

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

I have been toying with building a bicycle mower, replacing the fork with one of those. The epiphany was when I realized I could use a fixed gear rear hub that would allow one to back up when necessary and possibly make it practical to use rather than a novelty.

Not that I really need another project right now...

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Curtis, have you considered a battery powered Mower???

 

Also... What about this Husky? Probably the most forever of all the mowers they offer.

 

 

For better or worse, this one followed me home today.  It's the HU725AWD, so it has the Briggs motor instead of the Honda, but it's also a $500 mower that I got one-year used for $200.  Still questioning my sanity on spending $200 on a mower, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

It's also the last year of that exact model.  Seems like the current models had a problem with wheel bearings falling apart.

Good color.