I come seeking wisdom, oh great hivemind.

   As a lot of you may know, I'm a "blue-collar" guy. I've had quite a few hands-on, dirty, greasy, sweaty jobs. As a few of you may know, when the steel mill where I worked was purchased by a world-wide steel conglomerate in 2019 and immediately began rolling layoffs, I jumped ship and became a state correctional officer. This gave me a decent wage, fantastic health insurance, more paid time off than I knew what to do with, and most important of all, a pension. But, there's usually a flip side that's not so great and boy was it not so great! After about two and a half years I was turning into a raging shiny happy person. That job definitely isn't for everybody and, it turns out that, in this case, I'm everybody. 

   I began shotgunning resumes all over, even out of state, even for jobs I didn't feel were 100% in my wheelhouse. I also applied for a few non-security jobs within the state. I heard back from a few that paid quite a bit less than what I was currently making (as a C/O) and I had taken a slight pay cut to become a C/O with the promise of a pension to offset the loss. Needless to say, I passed on these. One was a position as a Diesel Mechanic at Disney World but, it didn't pay enough to justify the move. Which was intensely heart-breaking. A well-known machinery and engine producing company contacted me wanting me to interview and test for a foundry machine repair position. The wage listed for this position was more per hour than I had ever earned at any of my previous jobs. Ever. But, I had to pass the mechanical aptitude test.

   In the past, I had heard about this test and had been told about how insanely difficult it was. So, with only a few days to cram for said test I funneled as much information as possible into my brain pertaining to hydraulics, electrical circuits, welding, pumps, gearboxes, etc. and hoped that some of it would stick. Feeling somewhat confident in the knowledge and experience gathered through a lifetime spent in the machining and mechanical trades I sat down and took the two-hour written test. I scored 110 out of a possible 120. To say I was elated would be an understatement. I was over the moon! I was leaving corrections, getting back into spinning wrenches and would be making more money than I had ever made before. The first eight weeks of this job will be spent on first shift familiarizing myself with the machinery that I'll be working on and getting to know the ins and outs of the job before I'm cut loose on third shift for at least a few years. 

   Today marks the end of my third week on the job and things are going great; I've already been elbow-deep in several big repairs and enjoyed every moment. Then today I checked my email and saw a message from the state, wherein they are wanting me to set up a time to interview for a position as an automotive mechanic. This would mean: less pay than I'm currently earning but (slightly) better health insurance, I'd be working 7:00am-3:00pm instead of 10:48pm-6:48am, much more paid time off, and most important of all, a pension. I had accepted that, for me, retirement was a pipe dream and resigned myself to just making the most of life while I worked until I was no longer physically able to do so. The possiblity of landing the automotive mechanic position with the state means I could potentially retire while I'm still healthy enough to enjoy it. 

   WWGRMD? 




  TL/DR: I landed a really good job with a standard 401k and phenomenal pay but, I have an offer to interview for a lower-paying job with a better schedule and a pension and I'm having a hard time deciding which way to go. 

YMMV

I bailed on the private sector, and worked for the State for 35 years.  Never great pay during that time but great health care and vacation, etc.  And now for the last 18 years I have had a wonderful pension, and i still work.  Life has been good.   Partly because even though the State pay was not great, I did what my grandmother told me to do, and every paycheck 10% went into 401Ks, etc.

I did midnight to 8am for three years in my early 20s... it just about killed me.

Bank the extra pay us always an option. If you trust the state involved to not bankrupt the pension plan before you need to retire, that is a big plus.

I would go for schedule and vacation, but which job do you think you would actually enjoy more?

In reply to The_Jed :

I have no solid answer but congrats on the upswing and having real options to choose from! 

Long term money and security should always win over short term higher money. State pension wins in my book. 

Time is our most valuable asset. It cannot be bought with a higher salary. The .gov job gives you more time now (more PTO), and more time in the future (pension).

Like John said, congrats having having to make the better of two choices!

I'm not a state kinda guy, so I'd go private sector and bank my own retirement if the work is better and you can fit the schedule into your life.  But that's also partlybecause as a late-gen-xer/early millennial, I don't really believe pensions exist.

At least it is good to have to choose between two decent jobs?

Day work, time off and a pension would be my choice.   I've done 3rd shift for about 5 years when I was in my late 20s.    I have no interest in doing it long term now.

Go to your current supervisor and have a chat.

Let them know your situation and listen to what they say. It may open the discussion about changing to a day role after a given amount of time. Or they may say, if you're looking to leave now then pack your bag. 
The response will tell you a lot about your new employer. 

1SlowVW said:

Go to your current supervisor and have a chat.

Let them know your situation and listen to what they say. It may open the discussion about changing to a day role after a given amount of time. Or they may say, if you're looking to leave now then pack your bag. 
The response will tell you a lot about your new employer. 

I second this.

Of the two initial options, I would take schedule and pension. But that's me. That means you'd have nothing to lose talking to your current employer on if they can offer you a third option that beats that.

At least go to the interview, then make your decision. 

I would say to consider the work environment also. Might be hard to determine, but I would rather make less working with people I like than more with a bunch of a-holes.

How's you and your family's health? A good/better health plan can quickly pay for itself if you end up needing it .

I'm healthy. Except for diabetes, which is financially brutal. I'd gladly take a $5/hr cut if the healthcare got me everything I need.

What's your age?  That can affect things a lot.  What's the 401k match from the company?  Are you making enough money now to throw extra into a Roth?

1SlowVW said:

Go to your current supervisor and have a chat.

Let them know your situation and listen to what they say. It may open the discussion about changing to a day role after a given amount of time. Or they may say, if you're looking to leave now then pack your bag. 
The response will tell you a lot about your new employer. 

Only do this after the interview and offer of employment from the State

You have a position of all the advantages. 

For auto mechanic interview.

• Definitely interview.
• Ask a lot of questions about how secure the position would be from economic downturns and when you would be vested.
• I would tactfully let them know that you have a job and be up front about your take home pay and ask if they can get "closer" to your current pay. I find the word "match" turns some HR folks off. Plus you are getting a night premium I assume. 
• Also get a good idea about the future of the new position you are applying to, does it have a Cost of Living or other periodic time in service based automatic increase of pay. 
• If they offer, then I would also ask them to provide you with help to estimate your new healthcare costs to mirror your current coverage. Much of the public don't like their government employees to pay less for insurance premiums. It makes politician popular to make sure Federal employees pay more. But our coverage and other benefits are awesome I think, so pay more get more.
• The peace of mind of a pension and daytime work schedule are huge pluses. 

For current job

• Hiring costs money so your new company has invested time and money into you. So they won't want to quickly lose you from a pure cost analysis.
• Does your current job have some type of performance review process? You are super new guy right now but it would be a good idea to get some documented feedback on how you are doing before you drop the news that you are looking at another opportunity.
• At the 3 week point it is ok for you to really deep dive into your benefits and 401k, do you get any other perks with your employment. For instance I didn't know for months that at one company I worked for that the corporate travel office inside our building also provided personal travel vacations for incredibly low prices. Or like my cousin who worked for a furniture component company and found out they were inside the FORD teir 1 supplier car discount program via one of the divisions of her company. Come at it to HR with the "Wow this is awesome working here" attitude and they will help you see what you can get. 
• Only after you get an offer should you ask for a meeting and make your ask for dayshift transition in X time. IF they say yes and then ask for that in writing and link it to your performance feedback. Maybe a low threshold to meet would be for the future assessment to be at least as good as that documented feedback you got in bullet 2.
• Really soak in the culture and make sure you want to leave what you have. The euphoria of newness proabably won't fade until the 4th-5th month time so this will be hard for you. If you really like the people you are around then that will make walking into work NP.  

I must note that I have only worked for LARGE companies that would be very different from the small to medium art of office negotiations. Get too formal and it may turn folks off I worry. But again I only dealt with mega corporate departments that functioned on formality. 

I always worked in the private sector. Only one of the jobs had a pension.  I worked at it for slightly over 10 years.

The bride worked for the state for 3 years.  Her salary was around 30% of mine.  Now that we're retired, her pension is twice mine. So, at least in my case, working in the private sector vs. public sector sucked pension-wise.

I've known people who've basically become trapped by government employment, mostly due to the pension. Not that it's necessarily bad, but once you're in on the game, you'll realize that if you go back to the private sector you'll likely lose that benefit. So your only chance for promotion & growth becomes looking other positions within the various government agencies - some of which are run better/worse than others. 
 

Personally, it sounds to me like taking the government job would be a better choice for you. 

Not to be a jerk here, but Google can be your friend.  Most state governments have web pages where they provide a lot of information on their benefits including health insurance and their retirement system.  It would be worth some time to look into these to see what they actually offer.  Depending upon who participates in an interview, there may not be a person that is knowledgeable about benefits present and the hiring manager probably wants to focus on job related and personality/fit instead.

Most states now have some sort of mixed system where the state and the employee make contributions to the retirement plan.  Some offer pensions with additional 401k or 457b plan options and others may have totally eliminated a pension option and be like a private firm with only a 401k type system.  On their website I would expect to find the types of plans available (may offer more than one), the employer and employee minimum required contributions, maximum or supplemental employer and employee contributions permitted, minimum service time to be vested in the system (typically around 5 years), and minimum service time to qualify for a pension (typically around 10 years).  There may also be information on what types of investment options they offer for 401k or 457b plans (some don't show this until you have enrolled).

Also look into the financial status of the retirement system.  Do they have a large unfunded future obligation?  That might be a concern, because taxpayers that aren't state employees or retirees far outnumber ones who are and will try to reduce or eliminate the need for increased taxes to pay your pension in the future (think social security).

457b plans are similar to 401k plans, but without the age 59.5 requirement to withdraw without penalty.  They are only available through state or local governments.  Their requirement is that you leave state and local government employment, but there is no age requirement.  So if you are young enough to retire before 59.5 or plan/need to retire before reaching that age (medical emergency, need to care for dependent, etc.) you can access the money in a 457b plan once you are no longer a state government employee (note: not all state agencies offer 457b plans).

Also, you should be able to find info on eligibility for health insurance as a retiree.  Many state agencies allow retirees to get health insurance either free or at the same rate as employees, but there are qualifying requirements such as minimum service time, minimum age at retirement, and such.

Just some things to consider regarding pensions etc.

Steve_Jones said:

1SlowVW said:

Go to your current supervisor and have a chat.

Let them know your situation and listen to what they say. It may open the discussion about changing to a day role after a given amount of time. Or they may say, if you're looking to leave now then pack your bag. 
The response will tell you a lot about your new employer. 

Only do this after the interview and offer of employment from the State

Good point. 

Do whatever is more enjoyable and easier on you mentally/physically..

Working a job that breaks you can have an adverse impact on your health as you get older. 

I work at a .gov job and will not go back to the private sector until I retire. When I retire I hope not to work unless I am bored.

Woody (Forum Supportum) said:

At least go to the interview, then make your decision. 

This!

   Thanks, everybody.

   I'm 42. Pretty late to be changing careers...again. I know.  

   The pension in question:
Accrues 1.67 benefit percentage for each year in service, fully vested after 10 years. Example: after 20 years in service my retirement benefit will be 33.4% of my average annual income over the previous 10 years, i.e., the current top rate of pay is $6,328 per month (100% of scale after five years) with no overtime currently available so, just for the sake of discussion (ignoring any COLA, contractual bonuses, etc.), that's just under $76,000 per year for the last 15 years leading up to retirement which averages out to the same just under $76,000 per year and 1.67% per year multiplied by 20 years is 33.4% so my retirement benefit would be just over $25,000 per year. 



   It's definitely not a golden parachute type of thing but, it's more than nothing. The health of the pension fund itself is something that had slipped my mind. When I was employed by the state I contributed 8.5% of my gross earnings every week to the pension fund.  

   There is also a non match 401k-type account offered through the state. The private sector job has a 401k that matches 100% of the first 6%.

   Regarding the type of work, the private sector wins 100%. I would much rather spin wrenches in a foundry than under/inside a car. I definitely enjoy industrial maintenance. If the steel mill where I previously worked hadn't been bought out and gutted I never would have left the trade.




   This whole discussion may be moot; according to teh googlez, our state pension is the second most UNDER-funded public pension system in the nation. So, by the time I get there, it's likely to have already been siphoned away.


   It looks like the safest and best answer would be to keep our current standard of living and bank anything above that or any overtime into a retirement account. Maybe into a $2023 or $2024 Challenge account as well. :)


   Again, thank you everyone for the wisdom and encouragement. 

In reply to The_Jed :

100% match for the first 6% is actually decent for a 401k these days