I have a quick relationship question but, it's a bit of a long story to get there...

I tried posting this on Reddit but, it was removed because I mentioned our kids... so I'm posting here somewhat anonymously. I know a lot of you will know who I am right away but, for now, I'd rather not say who I am or have it revealed for me so, please don't. 


Back story:

   I'm an avid gym rat. I (44M) used to be a boxer and a loooong time ago I dabbled in MMA. I still hit the bags and grapple a few days per week on top of lifting and biking but, I no longer compete, I just like to stay in shape. I joined a gym about five years ago after moving to a new town specifically because they had punching bags and, shortly after joining, while I was working out, the person working the front desk wandered over and said, "Are you married? Someone wanted me to ask, I'm not going to say who but, they wanted to know." I told her I was married. And at that point I had been for a little over 12 years. I didn't think too much of it and I never did try to find out who wanted to know.
   

   Fast forward a few years and the wife has developed a wandering eye. Our kids noticed the lack of affection. We separated in February of '22 and I bought a "livable" small house that August. She got the nice house, the camper, and half of my retirement but no alimony and, I got the kids. They were my main concern. Being a forty-something, blue collar manlet, I figured that was it; aside from my kids, I would be alone for the rest of my life. I did the stereotypical thing and poured myself into lifting and training with an intensity only the lonely and broken-hearted understand.

   A couple of months ago, while I was seeking blunt force catharsis from the punching bags, I was approached by someone (39F) who asked if I would mind teaching her how to box. Of course, it didn't stay platonic for long. We were very compatible with similar childhood experiences (neglect, sexual and physical abuse, etc.) that shaped us into the adults we are today. She's whole-heartedly committed to her two kids just like me and exercises nearly every day while counting calories and trying to hit 130 grams of protein per day, again just like me except I aim for 160. She's pretty muscular and I obviously I find her VERY attractive. I told her I was somewhat recently divorced, and she told me she had been divorced for just over five years. To the surprise of probably nobody, she was the one who had asked about me five years earlier.

   During one of our conversations, we had the "body count talk". I knew it was coming and I knew it could be an issue. I became obsessed with becoming strong and learning how to fight from a very early age, motivated by physical abuse. While most guys were hooking up with random girls and/or women I was training and looking for fights. She asked me how many women I had been with before I met my ex-wife of 17 years.

I answered, "Two."

Her eyes bulged and she replied incredulously, "TWO?!"

I nodded and said, "Yep."

She got a far off look in her eyes and slowly lowered her head into her hands.

   I didn't ask what her number was but, I'm guessing it's higher than three.
While I was punching people and getting punched growing up, she sought validation in other ways.
It didn't matter to me; we are VERY compatible physically and emotionally. It was amazing!
With both of us working full time and having children our time together was very limited. We could get together a few days per week for a few hours but, we do not work the same schedules and we do not have the same days off. Also her youngest kid is in softball and my kids wrestle and are in band. For the first month or so, maybe a bit longer, it was pure bliss. The only issue that cropped up was a bit of a discussion about money. We both make around 70,000-80,000 per year yet I still tried to pay for everything and she, having been on her own for five years, was used to paying for everything and felt guilty if someone else paid. She is extremely independent, organized, and disciplined, all things that I very much admire and find powerfully attractive. So, we worked out a deal where each of us would take turns inviting the other to something (dinner, movie, etc.) and whomever made the plans would pay. It sounded great and everything was going well until the time constraints started stressing her out and several times she said it wasn't fair to me. I made it clear I was grateful for any bit of time we had together and understood completely that it would be difficult. I noticed over the last week or so that she seemed kind of distant when we would talk.

   Then, this past Saturday, she called me on her way home from work and we talked for about an hour and that's when she hit me with the girl-breaking-up-with-a-guy bingo card; "It's not you it's me, you deserve better, you're a great guy, I love you and I don't want to hurt you, I think I'm just better off alone...".

   Needless to say I was a bit shocked, I was thinking long term with this relationship. I was already trying to figure out how we would all go to Disney together. So, last night, I did the only logical thing a middle-aged single dad can do and... sparred with some local pro fighters. It wasn't a kill-or-be-killed kind of sparring like what we did in the 90's and early 00's but, it felt good to punch and be punched. I could easily slip back into that world and replace physical intimacy with violence... but, I'm a bit worried about the effect it might have on my kids.

   So, anyway, to those more experienced in the ways of relationships and women for that matter, would you just let her go or pursue her? 


 

You never know what is going through somebodies head. Take the punch on the chin and move one, if she is worth the effort then call back and say that you want to work through it if she is willing. Give her a day or two to think and don't put any ultimatums on things. Hard enough at our/your age and being single with kids is even harder. 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, and it you tape a straw in its mouth and throw it in a lake you still don't have a horse. Basically don't force it and try not to take it personally. 

People show you who they are at the beginning of a relationship. Believe them. 

I'd give her a week or two, see if she reaches out. If she doesn't, then think about if you REALLY want to try to work things out with HER or just not be alone. But I'd just walk away and look at it as you had a good time. People come in and out of your life and not everyone is meant to be there forever and that's ok. 

Unrelated to the question, the asking about body counts (I know it was her who asked), is just silly and recipe for a bad time. My number is more than I can count on both hands and I know my fiance enjoyed her younger years, I've never asked and will never ask. Mainly, because as long as the number hasn't increased since we started dating, it's none of my damn business frankly. Same for me. Just some unsolicited advice going forward. 

Totally_not_a_current_GRMer said:

   So, anyway, to those more experienced in the ways of relationships and women for that matter, would you just let her go or pursue her? 

She is going to do what she is going to do. You can't change that. You have to live YOUR life.

No matter what happens next, she has ended the relationship that you had. That doesn't mean there isn't a possibility of something NEW starting back up. Even if she calls you tomorrow, you talk through things, and get back together... that will be a fundamentally different relationship.

You had a nice taste of something good for you, that you know was healthier than what you would have been doing otherwise. LOOK FORWARD to something else that will be good for you in a similar way.

if you want to keep this woman in your life, you clearly need to up your body count.

While I would be curious about her reaction, I would go about my business. Focus on your health and kids. 

If she's into worrying about how many people you've had sex with then I don't think that's a positive step to a real relationship.

She could be worried about the very real possibility that you'll wake up and realize you need to do that intimate exploring, having not in your life. Happened to you and your ex, right? 

It's also likely not just about sex, but also about what relationship experience you have. In that sense, spending more time dating, and exploring intimately with other people, could be a nice place for you to focus efforts to grow. It's about learning about yourself, too.

Consider that she's you +5 years post divorce experience, and you trust and value her perspective already.

So, before my divorce I always considered myself a hopeless romantic.  Afterwards I came to value honesty in all close relationships above all (consider what that says about my marriage if you want)

That means what I'm gonna say is coming from that perspective.

"It's not you, it's me." is a phrase that 20-somethings say.  It functionally means nothing.  If she means something to you (and it sounds like it) then I would find some way to communicate with her and ask for an honest conversation. Tell her you were starting to look at this as a more permanent thing, and were blindsided.  Ask what happened to change her mind.  Ask if you guys can talk through it and see if you can get on some common ground.  Even if you don't end up back together you'd rather know what happened so you can be aware of it in the future.

Or some variation thereof.  Bottom line, let her know that you would rather know what actually happened than be left to wonder. 

I'm gonna ask my gf what she thinks as well.  Maybe the female perspective will help.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

if you want to keep this woman in your life, you clearly need to up your body count.

Next time they meet in the gym:

"Hey, my body count is now 5.  When mine reaches yours, let's talk."

Next week: "I'm at 7!"

Etc

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Gf said: "I like what you said.  It's like a job interview, 'Hey, I didn't get the position, can I ask what I can do better?' Kind of thing."

She also thinks everyone in here is making too big of a deal of the bodycount (including her.)  The two things happened in sequence, but correlation does not equal causation.  It may have given her something to think about, and may have helped lead her to some other thought that made her break up, but it alone doesn't mean that's the reason for breaking up.

She does think it's BS that she didn't at least give a ballpark for her number, though.  "If you're gonna have that conversation then have that conversation."

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I didn't ask what hers was because I don't care. I know that, at this age, any normal person will have had many more sexual partners than me. 


Also, thanks everyone. I appreciate the fresh and informed perspectives.

It's clear y'all (to me) y'all are on divergent paths. I learned from my divorce one thing and one thing only. The harder you go looking, the more likely you are to make a mistake. 

I wouldn't go lookin' at all. Not to say I'd reject advances or anything- but I would not actively pursue. If she's serious about it at any point, she'll get over whatever it is. 

She may actually be telling a version of the truth in that it's her not you, as it sounds like she has a lot of potential insecurities that could be leading her to self-sabotage. That being said, it's also a complete and total BS excuse, that demonstrates the exact opposite of what she claims to feel. I think you'd be fair to call her out on it, and give her a chance to have an honest (no games) discussion about it. If she does, great. If not, then you can always let her know that whenever she's ready to be honest, you'll be ready to listen. But don't hold out hope waiting for it to happen at that point either. She may just as likely never get there, which would be a huge red flag that you dodged a bullet.

You're adults. You can be honest and state:

"I'm too old to play games. I'd like an honest answer. I'd appreciate either being told what the issue is or that you are not comfortable discussing it, but not a lame excuse."

Mr_Asa said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

if you want to keep this woman in your life, you clearly need to up your body count.

Next time they meet in the gym:

"Hey, my body count is now 5.  When mine reaches yours, let's talk."

Next week: "I'm at 7!"

Etc

I've never been a man whore and probably never will be. As noted above there is some sexual abuse in my past, at around the age of 10 so I guess I'm a bit weird about sex.

I'm not into physical intimacy without an emotional connection.

Oddly, now that I'm older, especially since I've leaned out, I get approached pretty regularly by people assuming I'm like every other 40-something gym rat out there. Somewhat recently, during some NoGi Jiu Jitsu, (on separate occasions) four people made things decidedly not platonic and abundantly clear while our limbs and bodies were intertwined. There's no hiding anything in rash guards and stretchy shorts. Two were female and two were male... so I've got that going for me, I guess. LOL


 

Could be she never wanted a long term relationship, started to realize you were leaning that way, so she bailed.  Could be that simple.

In reply to Purple Frog :

Good call.  But, again, have some balls and say that.

This may sound a little blunt, but she isn't looking for what you are looking for. 

I don't know how to explain why I think this without giving out information about myself that I am unwilling to share here. (no, it doesn't have anything personal info I have about you and her other than what was shared here, just several things I have seen before)   If you truly want to know more, you are welcome to contact me through GRM email. 

In reply to Totally_not_a_current_GRMer :

I have little info and only your side of the story but here are some thoughts from me.

Divorced 5 years, high body count, kids to Disney, very similar past negative experiences, very similar current health interests...

1. Are you too good?  Its a weird thing (for her) when you get what you want.  Five years into being single, maybe she doesn't want to be single but its a new familiar place.  Are you a threat to that familiarity?  Again, are you too good and therefore if she is insecure or wounded from previous relationships do you pose a threat to that current safe space in  her life?  

2.  Similar to 1, did you come on too strong such as moving to kid things too soon?

3. Is she looking for more "fling" and less "real thing"?  If you feel this might be the case, how do you feel about a more casual re-tap?  Give it a few weeks and see if she might be DTF.  Yeah, you could get hurt if you invest too much emotion into this casual encounter but on the other hand, some distance might make her see a need for closer.  

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

She also thinks everyone in here is making too big of a deal of the bodycount (including her.)  The two things happened in sequence, but correlation does not equal causation.  It may have given her something to think about, and may have helped lead her to some other thought that made her break up, but it alone doesn't mean that's the reason for breaking up.

I'm in a group that's most women where we discuss among other things relationship issues. There are more women than I would have guessed that won't go out with someone who's number is much lower than theirs. It doesn't matter to everyone but it seems to be important more often than not.  

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

She also thinks everyone in here is making too big of a deal of the bodycount (including her.)  The two things happened in sequence, but correlation does not equal causation.  It may have given her something to think about, and may have helped lead her to some other thought that made her break up, but it alone doesn't mean that's the reason for breaking up.

I'm in a group that's most women where we discuss among other things relationship issues. There are more women than I would have guessed that won't go out with someone who's number is much lower than theirs. It doesn't matter to everyone but it seems to be important more often than not.  

That's really bizarre to me. I guess maybe it makes them feel like "Tulsa" backwards?

In reply to z31maniac :

That wasn't as much a concern as the assumption that it only two women slept with you then there's probably something wrong with you that they're not seeing yet.  Being childless past a certain age is also a problem for a lot of people for the same reason.  

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

She also thinks everyone in here is making too big of a deal of the bodycount (including her.)  The two things happened in sequence, but correlation does not equal causation.  It may have given her something to think about, and may have helped lead her to some other thought that made her break up, but it alone doesn't mean that's the reason for breaking up.

I'm in a group that's most women where we discuss among other things relationship issues. There are more women than I would have guessed that won't go out with someone who's number is much lower than theirs. It doesn't matter to everyone but it seems to be important more often than not.  

As a woman actually responding to this thread, I'd invite y'all to review my previous reply

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Gf said: "I like what you said.  It's like a job interview, 'Hey, I didn't get the position, can I ask what I can do better?' Kind of thing."

She also thinks everyone in here is making too big of a deal of the bodycount (including her.)  The two things happened in sequence, but correlation does not equal causation.  It may have given her something to think about, and may have helped lead her to some other thought that made her break up, but it alone doesn't mean that's the reason for breaking up.

She does think it's BS that she didn't at least give a ballpark for her number, though.  "If you're gonna have that conversation then have that conversation."

Sounds to me like you've met a keeper. Great perspective!