I want Detroit to succeed, but I fear it will never happen.

I do, I really do want to see Detroit rise above the decades of mismanagement and corruption but sometimes I wonder.
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For drivers who don't want to commit to a new car purchase, leasing has become a popular option. But for a police department in a city with a struggling economy, running up a $65,000 bill for what amounts to renting an nine-year-old car seems like a bit of an oversight. That's just what the Detroit Police Department has been doing since 2003 when it leased a 2004 model Dodge Intrepid at the lofty price of $608 per month. The problem? They've been paying that price ever since.

The original terms of the lease stated that the car would be returned in 2005, at which point the department could choose to buy it outright to take delivery of a newer model. That trade-in never happened, and so far the city has handed out a total of over $56,000 in monthly payments. But that's not all: Because the department has gone well over the original mileage agreement, they owe nearly $10,000 in additional fees, bringing their total bill to well over $65,000. That's $65,000 for a car that could be bought new in 2003 for less than $25,000.

But that's just one vehicle, and the city is currently paying for over a hundred leased cars currently in use, and all of them are operating on expired leases. The seemingly careless spending could total several millions of dollars in the end, and the city apparently has no plans to reverse the practice.

The ridiculous waste of taxpayer money was discovered by local news station WXYZ, after they obtained the sales records through a Freedom of Information Act request. The station spoke with the president of the Detroit Police Officers Association, Joseph Duncan, who seemed just as outraged at the mismanagement as the taxpayers will be, stating "This is malfeasance. It makes no sense to me."

I know this was done in the Kwame days (who owns the dealership that made these deals?) but the article says they don't seem to be interested in knocking it off. Cummon guys! I'm blown away here. The efforts to appoint a emergency financial manager are met with cries of "white supremacy" and "racism", saying the folks that would be appointed over the city wouldn't "not be appointed officials". Well look here, your appointed officials are paying $65,000 and rising Dodge Intrepid for cryin out loud!

When it comes down to it, I'm sure Detroit will be revived, but I fear it will take a total, monumental meltdown before it allows itself to rise up.

How about- if you really want it to do well, why do you want to post bad news like this? What's the point, and who is to gain?

To the people it matters to, and could potentially do something about- none of them are here. All this does is find reasons to not like Detroit to people who can't do anything about it, and who it doesn't really impact.

So, what's the point?

You don't live there, why do you really worry about it?

Unless you want to find more reasons to not like something....

well.. like in Miami with their fleet of unused "new" cars that are now out of warrenty.. if Detroit is doing this.. how many other municiple, state, and federal entities are doing the same?

alfadriver wrote: You don't live there, why do you really worry about it?

It bothers me a bit when people say this.

All three of us live in Michigan. Detroit is a huge part of Michigan. Both of you live in the region of the State both directly tied to and influenced by the success or failure of Detroit as a city and as a greater region. I think Detroit suburbanites pretending like it's not their problem is a big part of the problem itself.

Pretending Detroit is it's own microcosm or country is easy to do by the guy in the neighboring city... but from a 20,000 foot view, at a national level, Detroit is the major window through which the majority of Michigan is viewed.

I too would love Detroit to succeed. I love lots of things about Detroit. I have friends in Detroit. I do business in Detroit. The decay and corruption depresses me. Just because I live on the westside of the state should I be comfortable that the local government has thrown away $65K leasing an '04 Intrepid? (which can be extrapolated to many other issues)

I think you have to air out your dirty laundry and deal with the dirt before you can move on. Hiding it and pretending everything is fine and not talking about it doesn't help anything. All the rats and cockroaches need to be dealt with before the home will be attractive to the next generation.

Well, there are good people out there in Detroit. I am sure you are familiar with Dan Gilbert? It seems no one in Detroit can miss his name. I am helping my stepmother out with her magazine and we are actually doing a story on Detroit. I know the perception is that he is a super wealthy guy that cares only about creating more wealth, but the real story is he is helping first time entrepreneurs in the technology world get a handle on what they need to be doing and helping fund them. I think in the next 5-10 years Detroit is going to be a much better place than it is today.

Hopefully the culture of corruption can dwindle down and be policed. That is the real bad part of this.

alfadriver wrote: How about- if you really want it to do well, why do you want to post bad news like this? What's the point, and who is to gain? To the people it matters to, and could potentially do something about- none of them are here. All this does is find reasons to not like Detroit to people who can't do anything about it, and who it doesn't really impact. So, what's the point? You don't live there, why do you really worry about it? Unless you want to find more reasons to not like something....

If someone doesn't "shine a light" on crime and corruption, then what chance is there that it will stop? It's that "It doesn't directly affect me, I'll just look the other way" mentality that is our biggest challenge as a nation.

1988RedT2 wrote:

alfadriver wrote: How about- if you really want it to do well, why do you want to post bad news like this? What's the point, and who is to gain? To the people it matters to, and could potentially do something about- none of them are here. All this does is find reasons to not like Detroit to people who can't do anything about it, and who it doesn't really impact. So, what's the point? You don't live there, why do you really worry about it? Unless you want to find more reasons to not like something....

If someone doesn't "shine a light" on crime and corruption, then what chance is there that it will stop? It's that "It doesn't directly affect me, I'll just look the other way" mentality that is our biggest challenge as a nation.

Shining the light to the people it matters, sure.

Shining it to people who can't do anything but find more reasons to not like detroit- bullE36 M3.

Tell me, what can YOU do about it? I can't. And I live 40 miles away. should I avoid Detroit, thanks to the bad news, and then the people who could be helped by my not doing business will have a tougher time to live? What good does that do?

It's news, sure. But to put it in as an editorial, that's crap. Tires me how we all want to see the evil and bad in our society, especially if it's someone else's bad or evil, so that we can look down on them. Stupid.

xflowgolf wrote:

alfadriver wrote: You don't live there, why do you really worry about it?

It bothers me a bit when people say this. All three of us live in Michigan. Detroit is a huge part of Michigan. Both of you live in the region of the State both directly tied to and influenced by the success or failure of Detroit as a city and as a greater region. I think Detroit suburbanites pretending like it's not their problem is a big part of the problem itself. Pretending Detroit is it's own microcosm or country is easy to do by the guy in the neighboring city... but from a 20,000 foot view, at a national level, Detroit is the major window through which the majority of Michigan is viewed. I too would love Detroit to succeed. I love lots of things about Detroit. I have friends in Detroit. I do business in Detroit. The decay and corruption depresses me. Just because I live on the westside of the state should I be comfortable that the local government has thrown away $65K leasing an '04 Intrepid? (which can be extrapolated to many other issues) I think you have to air out your dirty laundry and deal with the dirt before you can move on. Hiding it and pretending everything is fine and not talking about it doesn't help anything. All the rats and cockroaches need to be dealt with before the home will be attractive to the next generation.

So, what are YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT, then? Seriously.

Going to stop doing business with them? Stop being friends who live there?

I honestly don't have anything I can do, outside of not going there to do things- which would be totally counter productive.

Just like it drives me nuts to read all this negative crap about other places, it also drives me nut to see people post things to complain about, and THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

Again, tell me, what are you going to do about it?

1988RedT2 wrote:

alfadriver wrote: How about- if you really want it to do well, why do you want to post bad news like this? What's the point, and who is to gain? To the people it matters to, and could potentially do something about- none of them are here. All this does is find reasons to not like Detroit to people who can't do anything about it, and who it doesn't really impact. So, what's the point? You don't live there, why do you really worry about it? Unless you want to find more reasons to not like something....

If someone doesn't "shine a light" on crime and corruption, then what chance is there that it will stop? It's that "It doesn't directly affect me, I'll just look the other way" mentality that is our biggest challenge as a nation.

Shine a light?

Wow man, I’m not hating on Detroit. It’s a new story, and an incredible one at that. That’s why I posted it. If this were happening in Denver I’d post it here. In truth, I wouldn’t care much because I don’t have a connection to Denver. I no longer live there, that is correct. Why do I care? Well, I grew up there, it still holds a place in my heart. Another reason is that it has an impact on the whole state, I still live in Michigan.
If you talk to people that hate Detroit, I don’t think $65,000 LH-cars are on the list.
If I’m such a hater, why did I try (and still plan on) holding a little GRM meet and greet in Detroit? I’m also organizing a large group of folks that don’t go there for any reason, to go there for an outing to the same theater as the meet and greet. That’s my little part I suppose to try to help the city out.
Do you really think my relaying a news article is scarring the reputation of the city? How would my keeping it under my hat help? Was Rob Wolchek trying to bring Detroit down, or expose the parts that were bringing the city down? By exposing those ugly truths, he was getting them fixed. I’m not trying to say I’m this noble character that is going to save the city one movie event at a time but to say that I “want to find more reasons to not like something” is pretty short sighted.

Alfa, I'm going the only thing I can do, I'm supporting the city. I live an hour away yet I drive there to support The Redford Theater. I can't make a phone call and have the Intrepid leases returned, can you? I can support the Blight Busters, do you?
I just think you're way off base here buddy. I'm relaying a news story. If they were leasing a bunch of new Dodge Chargers for $300 a month I wouldn't post it here because it's not news. Paying nearly 3 times the value of a car to rent it is, I don't care what city you are from, live in, hate, like, or love.
Funny how you just got bent out of shape for people calling you a hater for not really getting the whole Twitter thing, yet you sit here doing basically the same thing.

alfadriver wrote: Shining the light to the people it matters, sure. Shining it to people who can't do anything but find more reasons to not like detroit- bullE36 M3.

i dont believe its useless either.

even if we take up your stance that there is nothing in Georgia that I can do directly about this...

...bringing it to light also serves as an innoculant for it to not happen in other places. It spurns others to question, rather than lay idle.

DrBoost wrote: Wow man, I’m not hating on Detroit. It’s a new story, and an incredible one at that. That’s why I posted it. If this were happening in Denver I’d post it here. In truth, I wouldn’t care much because I don’t have a connection to Denver. I no longer live there, that is correct. Why do I care? Well, I grew up there, it still holds a place in my heart. Another reason is that it has an impact on the whole state, I still live in Michigan. If you talk to people that hate Detroit, I don’t think $65,000 LH-cars are on the list. If I’m such a hater, why did I try (and still plan on) holding a little GRM meet and greet in Detroit? I’m also organizing a large group of folks that don’t go there for any reason, to go there for an outing to the same theater as the meet and greet. That’s my little part I suppose to try to help the city out. Do you really think my relaying a news article is scarring the reputation of the city? How would my keeping it under my hat help? Was Rob Wolchek trying to bring Detroit down, or expose the parts that were bringing the city down? By exposing those ugly truths, he was getting them fixed. I’m not trying to say I’m this noble character that is going to save the city one movie event at a time but to say that I “want to find more reasons to not like something” is pretty short sighted. Alfa, I'm going the only thing I can do, I'm supporting the city. I live an hour away yet I drive there to support The Redford Theater. I can't make a phone call and have the Intrepid leases returned, can you? I can support the Blight Busters, do you? I just think you're way off base here buddy. I'm relaying a news story. If they were leasing a bunch of new Dodge Chargers for $300 a month I wouldn't post it here because it's not news. Paying nearly 3 times the value of a car to rent it is, I don't care what city you are from, live in, hate, like, or love. Funny how you just got bent out of shape for people calling you a hater for not really getting the whole Twitter thing, yet you sit here doing basically the same thing.

I didn't call you a hater, but it's interesting to have that read into my question. I asked, what's the point?

So, what's next?

"So, what's next?"
I don't know, what's next? Keep turning a blind eye? Pretend that everything is rosy, or just be content that everything in your 'burb is rosy and let the cretins have at it? What happens when things in your 'burb are less than rosy?
I wasn't making a social commentary, only you are. I'm repeating a rather incredible news story, plain and simple.
No, you didn't call me a hater, but the implications are pretty strong.

DrBoost doesn't have a direct line to the Governor of Michigan, he's got this forum. Talking about stuff like this with friends is important, if it's not important to you then fine, but it's important to him.

Yeah, I am not too sure why there is even a debate going on in this thread.

alfadriver wrote:

xflowgolf wrote:

alfadriver wrote: You don't live there, why do you really worry about it?

It bothers me a bit when people say this. All three of us live in Michigan. Detroit is a huge part of Michigan. Both of you live in the region of the State both directly tied to and influenced by the success or failure of Detroit as a city and as a greater region. I think Detroit suburbanites pretending like it's not their problem is a big part of the problem itself. Pretending Detroit is it's own microcosm or country is easy to do by the guy in the neighboring city... but from a 20,000 foot view, at a national level, Detroit is the major window through which the majority of Michigan is viewed. I too would love Detroit to succeed. I love lots of things about Detroit. I have friends in Detroit. I do business in Detroit. The decay and corruption depresses me. Just because I live on the westside of the state should I be comfortable that the local government has thrown away $65K leasing an '04 Intrepid? (which can be extrapolated to many other issues) I think you have to air out your dirty laundry and deal with the dirt before you can move on. Hiding it and pretending everything is fine and not talking about it doesn't help anything. All the rats and cockroaches need to be dealt with before the home will be attractive to the next generation.

So, what are YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT, then? Seriously. Going to stop doing business with them? Stop being friends who live there? I honestly don't have anything I can do, outside of not going there to do things- which would be totally counter productive. Just like it drives me nuts to read all this negative crap about other places, it also drives me nut to see people post things to complain about, and THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Again, tell me, what are you going to do about it?

You gain awareness of the problem and check up on your own local groups to ensure they're not doing something similar. That's what you do about it.

Anti-stance wrote: Yeah, I am not too sure why there is even a debate going on in this thread.

So I'm not the only one corn-fused here?
Now that the cover is blown on this issue, I bet it get's fixed quick-like. I really do hope though, that the city council sees that maybe a emergency financial manager is a good thing. A EFM is not implicating THEM, just trying to get them out from under decades of corruption and mismanagement. If my wife and I were this bad with our finances, and had been for many years, it might just take an outside person to look at it, give us a nice wake-up slap in the face, and get things on the right track.
Let's say every elected official is totally honest and wants nothing more than for Detroit to do great. I think the uphill battle is soo huge they need someone disconnected to come in and get it pointed in the right direction.

DrBoost wrote: "So, what's next?" I don't know, what's next? Keep turning a blind eye? Pretend that everything is rosy, or just be content that everything in your 'burb is rosy and let the cretins have at it? What happens when things in your 'burb are less than rosy? I wasn't making a social commentary, only you are. I'm repeating a rather incredible news story, plain and simple. No, you didn't call me a hater, but the implications are pretty strong.

You are not making a social commentary? Seriously? ok....

When MY 'burb is having problems, I address it in my 'burb.

here's a different question- what response did you expect when you posted that news? If they do a quick fix, will you post that as well, or leave it with this part?

I'm not pretending anything is rosy at all. I'm letting a community deal with thier own problems. Not sure how you get to I'm rosy about it.

why do you want to post bad news like this?

"Just to piss you off" seems like a good enough reason at this point. I keeed.

I must have lost my mind for a moment. We should just let elected officials abuse the power they have, and use taxpayer monies for whatever purpose they deem fit. Public-sector salaries are so meager anyway, and these hard-working people are clearly entitled to a little graft and embezzlement. Nothing to see here. Let's return to being apathetic Americans.

alfadriver wrote:

DrBoost wrote:

How about we just agree to disagree. If you have nothing to add, then don't add. If I hear that this situation has been corrected, I'll post.