If you have to ask . .. .

There is another thread over in the GRM section that has this come up and I figured I would use this as an opportunity to try and explain why this saying when directed at someone can really be offensive. So here goes

Back in the 80's the "If you have to ask" would make you look cool to your friends while at the same time being demeaning to the person you were saying it to. Those of us that lived and partied hard in the 80's know what I am talking about. It was basically saying to someone that you are one of the "have nots" and please go back to "your side of the tracks". It is saying to someone that you are a lesser person because you are of lesser means and there for you are a "lower class" person.

A little history. The dot-com boom was in full swing at that time. Cocaine parties and all sorts of debauchery was going on. People that were nothing in January were multimillionaires by the next January. There was a huge divide growing between the wealthy and the average person and the number of those that were getting wealthy were growing fast. These people were attracted to each other. They did not fit in with the old $$$$ and did not want to be associated with the regular people. They felt that with there wealth came privilege and gave them the right to be condescending to those that did not fit into their group. The "If you have to ask" was just part of the condescending A-holl ness that was part of these peoples lifestyle.

And as such what it was saying was I am of a higher class than you. It really was an insult especially to those that really were of lesser means. It really was not a nice thing to say to someone. Especially if it is to someone you really don't know well.

The current generation may look at this differently and it may not be a big deal now but please understand that to those of us that lived it this is a still a big deal. To people my age, this is not something you to be said off-hand to someone.

I hope this helps clarify this to some that may not understand why "If you have to ask" can be so offensive to some.

This reminds me of a little story (another life lesson if you will) It is kind of like calling someone that Jewish a schmuck. (I learned this the hard way.) The common definition of schmuck is a stupid or foolish person. But if you don't know what the Yiddish meaning is (and where it originated from) you probably will not be calling people schmucks. (ya I am going to make you go look it up)

For the record, I ate a lot of humble pie and apologized. That person took me aside and enlightened me as to the real meaning and just how offensive it was. Because of that day, I made a life long friend that taught me alot about life. He has since passed on but a life lesson was learned that day and I got a mentor that I will forever be grateful for. I really miss him. . .

I am hoping my addressing of the "If you have to ask" is taken the same way by some. After all, you don't want to be the "schmuck" that I was.

Counterpoint: To me it was like sticking your head out of the window of the prom limo and asking the person in the car next to you if they had any Grey Poupon. An overly cheesy line that you only saw said if you watched a movie where they wanted the rich shiny happy person character to really demonstrate how much of an shiny happy person he was. He was an shiny happy person because it was a moronic statement that only he believed made him better. It was a joke in the movie, and a joke every other time I have heard it. It was mocking the exact attitude you think it is trying to convey. I understand now that it is insulting to you and I won't use it in your direction, but understand that many many many of us know it and use it as a joke. It is as much you job to not be offended easily as it is mine to try not to offend you.

Well I learned something today. I knew it could be used in a cruel manner but I had no idea such use was so widespread. I too have never witnessed it being used as anything but a joke as MrJoshua describes.

Huh.

I'm older than the OP.

Feel free to tell me "If you have to ask...". I couldn't care less., and you're probably right.

I'll smile, and probably agree with you. If I choose to insult you, I will make sure to use no indistinguishable nuances.

I see your point. I can also venture to say that you were never actually subjected to the use of it in a derogatory way that it originated from. If you only saw it used in sitcoms of the late 80's and early 90's it is funny. If you were the brunt of the joke it was not so funny. I really think it is an age thing. I just fall on one side of this and even though we are only about 5 years apart you are on the other side of it. Could that be a factor?

SVreX wrote: Huh. I'm older than the OP. Feel free to tell me "If you have to ask...". I couldn't care less., and you're probably right. I'll smile, and probably agree with you. If I choose to insult you, I will make sure to use no indistinguishable nuances.

Then I guess the age thing is out the window. Guess it is how and where you grew up?

MrJoshua wrote: Counterpoint: To me it was like sticking your head out of the window of the prom limo and asking the person in the car next to you if they had any Grey Poupon. An overly cheesy line that you only saw said if you watched a movie where they wanted the rich shiny happy person character to really demonstrate how much of an shiny happy person he was. He was an shiny happy person because it was a moronic statement that only he believed made him better. It was a joke in the movie, and a joke every other time I have heard it. It was mocking the exact attitude you think it is trying to convey. I understand now that it is insulting to you and I won't use it in your direction, but understand that many many many of us know it and use it as a joke. It is as much you job to not be offended easily as it is mine to try not to offend you.

I'm 46, and this has always been my perception.

Then again, it's also my perception that people are way to sensitive about words.

I'm confused by this as well. But more about the timing of the dot-com boom. I remember that happening in the late nineties, not the eighties at all.

Could have been a different boom in the eighties. There are always folks going from nothing to megamillionaires and throwing coke parties for themselves it seems.

Robbie wrote: I'm confused by this as well. But more about the timing of the dot-com boom. I remember that happening in the late nineties, not the eighties at all. Could have been a different boom in the eighties. There are always folks going from nothing to megamillionaires and throwing coke parties for themselves it seems.

Probably back when IT/CompSci jobs paid mad mad money. Could be mistaken for the dot-com boom if you don't know exactly what they were working on.

Where and when I grew up, the "if you have to ask" thing was also, always used condescendingly. I understand the OP.

We just need to add another smiley face to help distinguish when someone is being condescending and when they jest:

I don't recall ever witnessing it being used in a condescending way. I don't think it's common to ask people how much their stuff costs, either. Are you saying you received that kind of response when trying to buy something?

Edit: I mean I understand how it could be offensive, but the only context I've seen that phrase used in recent years (I honestly can't remember farther back) it is more a comment on the exorbitant valuations/asking price on truly outrageously expensive cars for sale.

Solid Gen-X here (46). I've never heard of the phrase being used as a condescending insult. It was generally used when my friends and I were looking at some obviously expensive item (car, guitar, whatever...), but didn't know the exact price:

"I wonder how much THAT costs..."

"You know - if you have to ask..."

None of us had any money back then... most of us still don't, although I've been a bit luckier than some.

In reply to WilD:

It's more used in interpersonal interactions rather than retail interactions. Generally, when used in a condescending manner, it is used when someone asks how much a watches, rare or exotic cars, suits, et al. costs at a party or gathering. More of an "If you knew what it was, you wouldn't ask" type of thing. Of course it has the implied statement that you obviously aren't refined enough to know either in that connotation.

z31maniac's response showed that by stating that he wasn't asking if he could afford a Philippe Patek (an immensely exclusive and expensive watch manufacturer) on a minimum wage budget.

So in that respect it is immensely disrespectful.

I learned the origins of schmuck today.

"more than you can afford, pal"

dean1484 wrote: The current generation may look at this differently and it may not be a big deal now but please understand that to those of us that lived it this is a still a big deal. To people my age, this is not something you to be said off-hand to someone.

don't be so generous to this generation, im sure there is some kid at some college that is having to put his liberal arts degree on hold so he can find a 'safe place' to go because someone said "if you have to ask..." to him.

Also the only thing i think of when i hear that phrase:

I didn't realize the dot com boom was in the 80's. TIL I guess...

I've always heard the phrase in the context of buying exotic cars, yachts, and mansions. Until today, well yesterday actually, I've never met someone offended by this.

Feel free to use the phrase around me, I won't be offended. Most likely you'll get a chuckle from me actually.

But I do get annoyed by anyone who brags about owning a 5 figure watch though

It didn't really bother me, I really just wanted to be a dick because he wasn't providing any useful information to the discussion.

OP specifically explained the context in which it is offensive, but many of you seem to be ignoring what he wrote.

It's much like most people in America would be horribly offended by the C--- word, then in Australia you know you've met a good bloke if he calls you a C---.

Context is key.

I understand the phrase, but just assumed it was used tongue in cheek in the other thread.

NEALSMO wrote: I didn't realize the dot com boom was in the 80's. TIL I guess... I've always heard the phrase in the context of buying exotic cars, yachts, and mansions. Until today, well yesterday actually, I've never met someone offended by this. Feel free to use the phrase around me, I won't be offended. Most likely you'll get a chuckle from me actually. But I do get annoyed by anyone who brags about owning a 5 figure watch though

I didn't even know what those watches were until a manager at my first job out of school told me about them. Apparently one of his hobbies was buying old, expensive non-functional watches, fixing them and either keeping them to wear or selling them for a profit.

And while I don't make $8/hr I definitely don't make enough to afford a $25k watch.

"If you have to ask......" is thought to have been said by J P Morgan (or possibly his son) in regards to a question regarding the price of maintaining a yacht.

The things one can learn while waiting on hold with access to the internet!

I thought the dotcom era was in the 90s during the reign of slick willy.

I must'a slept through the whole cocaine-debauchery period of the 80s, because I have no idea what y'all are going on about. I too thought it was from JP Morgan. Yea, he probably should be allowed to look down his nose at me.

Ian F wrote: Solid Gen-X here (46). I've never heard of the phrase being used as a condescending insult. It was generally used when my friends and I were looking at some obviously expensive item (car, guitar, whatever...), but didn't know the exact price: "I wonder how much THAT costs..." "You know - if you have to ask..." None of us had any money back then... most of us still don't, although I've been a bit luckier than some.

I would say this is pretty much exactly me, with the wrinkle that I'm pretty sure I picked up the usage from my dad, obviously a generation older. I grew up in CA and OR, he grew up in Texas.

It's easy enough not to use that phrase here, so I probably won't. On the flip side, I'm not going to avoid (edited to remove stupidly loaded wording) all my colloquialisms, and I hope that we can all assume good intent and clarify if necessary.

z31maniac wrote:

NEALSMO wrote: I didn't realize the dot com boom was in the 80's. TIL I guess... I've always heard the phrase in the context of buying exotic cars, yachts, and mansions. Until today, well yesterday actually, I've never met someone offended by this. Feel free to use the phrase around me, I won't be offended. Most likely you'll get a chuckle from me actually. But I do get annoyed by anyone who brags about owning a 5 figure watch though

I didn't even know what those watches were until a manager at my first job out of school told me about them. Apparently one of his hobbies was buying old, expensive non-functional watches, fixing them and either keeping them to wear or selling them for a profit. And while I don't make $8/hr I definitely don't make enough to afford a $25k watch.

Sure you do. It would be a horrible financial idea (although probably not as bad as a car, except you "need" a car), but you can afford it.

I can afford anything I want. I can't afford everything I want.