In reply to pinchvalve:
Holy crap, I presume even the Arabian Sheiks are jelly of this thing?
In reply to pinchvalve:
Holy crap, I presume even the Arabian Sheiks are jelly of this thing?
yamaha wrote:MadScientistMatt wrote:At that point in the war, Japan was trying to conserve what naval power they had left. The escort carriers simply just convinced them through throwing everything including the kitchen sink and suicide charge destroyers at them.....yea, I probably would have thought there was more there than there actually was.Will wrote: Tell that to the tin can sailors of Taffy 3. Three DDs and four DEs ran off the Yamato, three other battleships, eight cruisers, and 11 destroyers. Biggest, sure. Most feared...no.Well, when your choices appeared to be either to die running away from the battleships or die attacking the battleships... Ok, so that may not have exactly been an easy choice, so there's a lot of credit due to the sailors for having the courage to attack. This was a situation where the battleships did inspire fear, but the American sailors didn't have that many options.
Sounds like you gentlemen have read "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors", too. Loved that book.
Anyway back on track.
Paul Allen was one of the largest backers of the SpaceShipOne project as well. He has a huge interest in the unknown and isn't afraid to spend money on a venture like either one of these projects.
The Yamato and her sister ships have always been an interesting part of naval history to me. It should be exciting to see what they out about the Musashi.
In reply to The0retical:
Well, we know it probably looks like swiss cheese since it took 19 torpedoes and 16 bombs to actually sink it. 
cool story
yamaha wrote:MadScientistMatt wrote:At that point in the war, Japan was trying to conserve what naval power they had left. The escort carriers simply just convinced them through throwing everything including the kitchen sink and suicide charge destroyers at them.....yea, I probably would have thought there was more there than there actually was.Will wrote: Tell that to the tin can sailors of Taffy 3. Three DDs and four DEs ran off the Yamato, three other battleships, eight cruisers, and 11 destroyers. Biggest, sure. Most feared...no.Well, when your choices appeared to be either to die running away from the battleships or die attacking the battleships... Ok, so that may not have exactly been an easy choice, so there's a lot of credit due to the sailors for having the courage to attack. This was a situation where the battleships did inspire fear, but the American sailors didn't have that many options.
I don't think it's accurate to say the IJN was conserving its strength, since it used its carriers (with a woefully small air wing) as sacrificial offerings to lure Halsey's fleet carriers away.
Japan was always convinced it could set up and win a single, decisive knockout battle with the US Navy. It remained convinced right up until the end that battleships could take on carriers, which is especially odd considering it proved the opposite with the HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales at the very outset of the war.
In reply to pinchvalve:
That. Is. Awesome. In fact, I have a new standard of awesome. When something is the most awesome ever imagined in it's category, it will now be MV Octopus Awesome.
Thank you.
Rob_Mopar wrote: Oh, word of caution on searching google images for Star Blazers Uniform. It starts getting weird.
This seems normal enough to me...
Will wrote:yamaha wrote:I don't think it's accurate to say the IJN was conserving its strength, since it used its carriers (with a woefully small air wing) as sacrificial offerings to lure Halsey's fleet carriers away. Japan was always convinced it could set up and win a single, decisive knockout battle with the US Navy. It remained convinced right up until the end that battleships could take on carriers, which is especially odd considering it proved the opposite with the HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales at the very outset of the war.MadScientistMatt wrote:At that point in the war, Japan was trying to conserve what naval power they had left. The escort carriers simply just convinced them through throwing everything including the kitchen sink and suicide charge destroyers at them.....yea, I probably would have thought there was more there than there actually was.Will wrote: Tell that to the tin can sailors of Taffy 3. Three DDs and four DEs ran off the Yamato, three other battleships, eight cruisers, and 11 destroyers. Biggest, sure. Most feared...no.Well, when your choices appeared to be either to die running away from the battleships or die attacking the battleships... Ok, so that may not have exactly been an easy choice, so there's a lot of credit due to the sailors for having the courage to attack. This was a situation where the battleships did inspire fear, but the American sailors didn't have that many options.
Agreed, the overall Japanese strategy at this point was to throw everything they had at the Americans. But the Japanese admiral in charge of the task force that attacked Taffy 3 was still being pretty cautious. His name escapes me, but had he pressed his attack more, he would have chewed through Taffy 3 and had a clear run at the landing forces. But, given the ferocity of the American counterattack, he thought he was dealing with a larger, more powerful force than he actually was, so he backed off.
Yes, from my understanding the Japanese admiral thought he was being lead into a trap. Which is not really that hard to believe considering what he ran into could be seen as a suspiciously easy target.
Did they ever find the third? The Shinano was converted to a carrier, but was sunk by the Archerfish before she even got her planes aboard
In reply to mad_machine:
They know where it is.....that's also the carrier the US had no clue it existed until after the war. Its also why the Archerfish's skipper didn't receive awards for it until afterwards.
MCarp22 wrote:Approves!
Ah, Japan. The only country I can think of that will anthropomorphize military equipment as busty cartoon women...
MCarp22 wrote:
(dork is way more than just a forum title or decal. live it.)
Will wrote: I don't think it's accurate to say the IJN was conserving its strength, since it used its carriers (with a woefully small air wing) as sacrificial offerings to lure Halsey's fleet carriers away. Japan was always convinced it could set up and win a single, decisive knockout battle with the US Navy. It remained convinced right up until the end that battleships could take on carriers, which is especially odd considering it proved the opposite with the HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales at the very outset of the war.
I love reading about WWII. It's such a comedy of errors. Not that the Allies were all that much better, but JEEZ, Japan and Germany screwed the pooch on so many things that an objective reading has them losing down to two things: Political stupidity and dumb luck.
I mean, hell, if they wanted any proof that air superiority was required as a prerequisite for winning on a given battlefield, they only had to observe Germany, who was being destroyed due in large part to a lack of air superiority as a conscious decision for political reasons.
RexSeven wrote:MCarp22 wrote:Ah, Japan. The only country I can think of that will anthropomorphize military equipment as busty cartoon women...
It's also an online trading card game, and and now an anime series featuring water skating battleship girls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC8CTEFvhQE
In reply to Knurled:
They were both beaten by dumb luck and a combination of sheer numerical advantage or industrial advantage.
It is claimed that by the time Leyte Gulf battles came up, the US had more ships in the pacific than the Japanese had airplanes. O.o
yamaha wrote: In reply to The0retical: Well, we know it probably looks like swiss cheese since it took 19 torpedoes and 16 bombs to actually sink it.
Probably still in better shape than Yamato.
indeed.
MCarp22 wrote: It's also an online trading card game, and and now an anime series featuring water skating battleship girls.
Aforementioned show is closely following WWII as far as pacing and ships lost is concerned.
This really does not bode well for the main character, which is sunk in real life early on in the war. (The Fubuki was sunk in late 1942)
Er, I mean, ha that is funny, a cartoon about ships, what is next, a video game where shrine maidens and vampires and demons and stuff shoot the heck out of each other? That's silly.
yamaha wrote: It is claimed that by the time Leyte Gulf battles came up, the US had more ships in the pacific than the Japanese had airplanes. O.o
That is partially due to the pre-official-war efforts of the likes of the Flying Tigers to develop tactics against then-superior Japanese craft, sher dumb luck in our collective abilities to get them with their pants down, and utter chunderheadedness on the Japaneses' part to effectively produce both aircraft and pilots to fly them. Pilots being the main thing, their pilot training was woefully small in scope, and in some theaters there was a 1000% pilot turnover (!!!!) due to attrition so there was always a need for more pilots and a severe lack of experienced pilots to help guide the fresh ones.
It certainly does not help at all that, as one writer put it, during the war the US developed different, progressively better aircraft to counter the Japanese threats. The Japanese started with the Zero... and in the middle they had the Zero... and at the end they had, you guessed it, the Zero.
kazoospec wrote:yamaha wrote: In reply to The0retical: Well, we know it probably looks like swiss cheese since it took 19 torpedoes and 16 bombs to actually sink it.Probably still in better shape than Yamato.
Hmmmm... I wonder if there is more of either of those super-dreadnoughts then there is of HMS Hood.......???
In reply to Knurled:
SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE
Spoilers man, spoilers!
In reply to SnowMongoose:
Want spoilers? Hell it's the same thing over and over again. Hell look at the Japanese autpo industry. "HA we made something awesome that everyone wants. Waaait, what is going on with American and German companies catching up? We'll just keep working hard. Oh wait they have surpassed us. And now Koreans are beating up on us WTF?? We must not be conservative and beige enough!"
Apt analogy: Riding a sinking ship.
(Name an awesome Japanese car from the last three years. Go on, try.)
Knurled wrote:Will wrote: I don't think it's accurate to say the IJN was conserving its strength, since it used its carriers (with a woefully small air wing) as sacrificial offerings to lure Halsey's fleet carriers away. Japan was always convinced it could set up and win a single, decisive knockout battle with the US Navy. It remained convinced right up until the end that battleships could take on carriers, which is especially odd considering it proved the opposite with the HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales at the very outset of the war.I love reading about WWII. It's such a comedy of errors. Not that the Allies were all that much better, but JEEZ, Japan and Germany screwed the pooch on so many things that an objective reading has them losing down to two things: Political stupidity and dumb luck. I mean, hell, if they wanted any proof that air superiority was required as a prerequisite for winning on a given battlefield, they only had to observe Germany, who was being destroyed due in large part to a lack of air superiority as a conscious decision for political reasons.
Then you should read Why Air Forces Fail. The main takeaway from the book is that battles and wars are often lost before they're even fought thanks to bad political, planning, and procurement decisions. Almost no fighting force ever loses simply because of something like individual soldiers'/pilots' skills.
yamaha wrote: In reply to Knurled: They were both beaten by dumb luck and a combination of sheer numerical advantage or industrial advantage.
Only if dumb luck is your name for "E36 M3ty planning."
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