Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

I am going to say "in before the lock" because there is no way this conversation cannot end with Margie not getting a patio extension

Don't know that I think either term particularly applies.

IDK for sure, this one is probably a coin flip. How it is treason, beats me

foxtrapper wrote: Don't know that I think either term particularly applies.

Aiding and abetting the enemy. Clearly we are the enemy.

I'm not sure if traitor vs patriot is the correct argument.

He broke his word and he broke the law. He deserves a fair trail and just punishment.

He is a young guy who is used to everything being on Facebook, so why would he have to keep secrets, just because he had sworn to do so?

The guys a moron, I think.

let's split the difference and go with "idiot"

Streetwiseguy wrote: The guys a moron, I think.

I'll go with this. He obviously doesn't care about anybody but himself and what he thinks is right. I have a couple neighbors who are now concerned because of the congress critters calling for the end of contractors with security clearances. And I know there some people on here that fit that category.

I don't care either way.

Moron? Yes. Traitor? Maybe. Patriot? Doubtful. Big Brother watching everyone do everything? Most likely.

I sort of want to care about the erosion of freedom in the U.S., but between advancing technology and lack of interest from the general public it appears to be a lost cause. As for Eddie, I'll vote on the idiot with good intentions side. Looks like he's in Moscow now. Glad he found a place that welcomes government dissenters.

As you can't indict him for being solely a moron, I'll class him as "Traitor".

I was going back and forth for a while but I am leaning towards shiny happy person looking for his 15 minutes of fame, maybe an unintentional traitor.

If he simply was going to be a whistleblower and was being patriotic he could have gone to an American paper and gotten his story out and investigated. If he felt he was in danger in the US and wanted asylum in Iceland like he has said he could have gone straight there from the US and then broken his story. The fact that he chose to go to China makes me think that he felt he had a story to sell. I don't know if that story was valuable enough to consider him a spy, but I get suspicious of someone leaving the US for China then Russia because they are concerned about their freedom. I don't know that he actually intended to be a traitor and do harm to the US or if he wanted to look like some kind of a hero and a trip to China was a way to make that happen.

Depending on if he spoke to the Chinese and what he said he could still be a traitor whether he had planned to or not. As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. I would like to think that the gov't does a better job of screening people that handle really sensitive information, and given that he has said things like he had the power to tape the President's phone without a warrant I have to believe that at least some of what he has said is exaggerated or altogether fabricated.

foxtrapper wrote: Don't know that I think either term particularly applies.

Big plus one.

So, anyone care to expand on the "idiot" and "moron" claims? I have to admit, the last I heard about him was the interview and fallout a couple weeks ago...and then something about asylum in south america today. Did I miss something?

Datsun1500 wrote: In other words, if I came across information that the government was doing illegal stuff and reported it, would I be accused of treason?

This is too easy, but it just seems those people disappear pretty quickly and are never heard from again. I doubt we will ever truely know if anything was true or not.

LainfordExpress wrote: I'm not sure if traitor vs patriot is the correct argument. He broke his word and he broke the law. He deserves a fair trail and just punishment.

This. I am sure he had signed some sort of confidentiality document to have access to this information. No matter if you agree or disagree with his actions or the morality of the government's actions, I am pretty sure he has broken a few laws.

It would take alot more than what he did to be called a traitor or treasonous act in my opinion.

If he didn't think he at least broke some laws why flee the country. It's not like we couldn't kill him overseas if we wanted to.

A "traitor" is someone who commits treason, and treason is very specifically defined in the constitution. I've yet to hear someone explain how what he did can be considered that. It also requires eyewitness testimony from 2 witnesses, which also doesn't appear to be the case here.

IIRC, he's actually charged with espionage, not treason.

I dunno about if he's a traitor or a patriot, but I can tell you he's probably well hung:

Apparently that's Lindsay Mills, his girlfriend.

Well, I think the espionage charge is more appropriate after hearing some of the stuff on the news tonight. Apparently he also has the entire NSA roster, including undercovers? And he's bragging about it on YouTube?

How stupid can you be? That has kidnapped family/murdered/blackmailed into turning over valuable information to people who wish to do Americans harm. At best it is carelessly putting lives at risk, at worst it's willful disregard for right and wrong.

I'm terrified at anyone who think he didn't do a good thing.

You are the reason I refuse to bring children into this terrible, messed up world.

The NSA is unconstitutionally spying on citizens. Snowden broke his oath to tell us the truth about what is going on.

I don't have a problem with that.

z31maniac wrote: I'm terrified at anyone who think he didn't do a good thing. You are the reason I refuse to bring children into this terrible, messed up world.

Yeah, rule of law is the worst.

Seriously though, there has to be a legal way for this kind of thing to come out. He doesn't have a congressman? A senator? A well written anonymous letter to a reporter to starting looking into something?

There are ways. Look at watergate. People can talk without putting others in danger. Feldt almost took his secret to the grave, Snowden could've made it to 50.

I think the domestic spying programs that have been growing like weeds in this country are wrong.

These programs are tailor made for the rise of a dictatorship, yet are not wholly effective at preventing terrorism, as we learned from the Boston bombing.

In that light, I consider the exposure of secret law and secret courts to be valuable to a democratic republic built on a foundation of checks and balances.

The very question is a distraction.