It's not loaded...

So, I've spent the last two evenings building set props for my sons drama class. The father that was going to build them, shot himself last weekend, while cleaning his gun. He's dead. His son and family are devastated.

For the love of God, your kids and your family, treat guns like they are loaded at all times. Even when you "know" it's unloaded.

Especially when you "know" it's unloaded because that's when they seem to kill the unwary.

This PSA is brought to you by a father that thinks boys need fathers, not memories.

That is all.

That's horrible. Sometimes people get to comfortable with things and the safety aspect goes out the window.

It is simultaneously frustrating and upsetting every time I hear stories like this. Its so easily preventable and such an unnecessary tragedy. I'm not blaming the victim or the family here, its just awful hearing this kind of thing. And as someone whos father passed away when I was very young (although not from a firearm or issue like this), there isn't a day that goes by that he doesn't cross my mind.

Always. That is terrible. Some suggest leaving all ammo out of the room when cleaning guns. I just prefer to never have a barrel pointed at me. It's very unnerving.

A family member of mine had been shot by another family member by a gun that wasn't supposed to be loaded (Paying games. Don't ask. It was just stupid.). He is lucky to be alive.

Had a coworkers son do the same thing a few months ago. Lots of back and forth between suicide and accidental discharge. Leaves many questions in the minds of his parents.

This weekend here in the Twin Cities, two teenage brothers were playing cops and robbers with their dad's pistol they thought was unloaded; it wasn't, and now one of them is dead.

I almost always assume these stories are suicides by proud families and accommodating reports/LEOs being kind. How the berkeley does anyone with any sense at all shoot themselves with a weapon they are holding? It's one of those If they know how to clean it then they know how to clear it and where NOT to put your finger or point the business end sort of things.

Unless it was dropped loaded, cocked and landed at a bad angle... I just can't see it being an accident.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

If it was a Glock, you have to press the trigger to take off the slide. There are a few others, but that's the most common.

I still don't get how people shoot themselves "cleaning a gun", when the first thing you do cleaning a gun is lock the action open or outright dismantle the thing into a harmless pile of parts(which often involves clearing it first). I have to wonder how many of these accidents aren't. Terrible thing to happen either way.

I don't quite understand it either. I've cleaned a lot of guns and never had to point one at myself to do it.

However it happened, it's a really E36 M3ty thing for a family to have to go through.

Ojala wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: If it was a Glock, you have to press the trigger to take off the slide. There are a few others, but that's the most common.

The other common one occurs when they drop the magazine and then rack the slide to clear the weapon. Sometimes people get distracted and do the opposite.

I don't tolerate being muzzled. Ever. That's the first thing I beat into peoples heads when I'm teaching them to shoot.

You only ever point the business end of a gun at something you want dead... Follow that simple rule and you can basically never "accidently" shoot yourself.

Its sad these kind of things happen, and reminds me somewhat of an Aussie soldier who died in Iraq several years ago... Official finding was that "Skylarking" was the cause of death. It was without a doubt a cover up. The area he was in required all weapons to be cleared and confirmed as cleared prior to entry into buildings. The firearm would have had to have been deliberately realoaded after entering the building in which he died.

Unfortunately the age old cliche rings as true as ever... Guns don't kill people, people do.

That truly sucks, I agree it takes a serious breech of safety protocol to aim a gun at yourself, much less aim it at yourself and pull the trigger. Sorry for that poor family.

Tragic, and I'm very sorry for the family.

The four rules. Every time, without exception.

• All guns are always loaded.
• Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
• Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
• Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

Not to be an even bigger downer, but "cleaning his gun" is often a euphemism for a purposefully self-inflicted gunshot.

Either way, what a blow to the family and community. My thoughts are with you all.

I have heard of it. My father tells the story while he was in Vietnam, the government sent somebody over to teach them how to properly clean their weapons in the tropical paradise they were in.

Guy took my dad's 45 and proceeded to shoot himself through the hand by pushing back the slide with his hand over the barrel. It never ever occurred to the guy that in a warzone you might keep a bullet in the chamber

Ex-SWMBO's brother killed himself playing around with a gun that he thought was empty. A 2 second glance at the gun could have saved his life.

A few years ago a gun dealer here killed his son while cleaning a gun, right in front of the mom.

Maybe they really are accidents, but it's about 2 steps below sticking your hand under a running lawnmower on the stupid-meter.

My condolences, but count me in on "How can you clean a loaded gun?"

That does suck for the family.

It's worth repeating here a story for all of the near terminally stupid to watch for as well. Several years ago my FIL (a big time gun nut) came for a visit. I happened to be in the guest room while he was unpacking and watched as he took out a Sig 9mm and put it on the floor under the bedside table. When I asked him if that seemed smart in a house with an 18 month old boy in it he replied that "it's ok, he's not strong enough to pull the trigger."

We had some words and I gave him back his ammo when he left my house. Always watch out for stupid people!

Having been in the Military for almost 20 years I also do not see how cleaning a gun leads to getting shot.

Serious question. How many people per year are classified as being killed while cleaning a gun?

That's terrible . I feel for the family.

In reply to Rusted_Busted_Spit:

In my last unit, we had a guy put a nice hole through his hand with his M9 when he was cleaning it. What amazed me it that he had "cleared" it, the Range Safety Officer had "cleared" it and the instructor had "cleared" it. Then they loaded up all the weapons and drove back to the unit to clean them. The guy then proceeded to rack the slide, put his hand over the muzzle and pull the trigger. Luckily it didn't hit anybody else.

The scary thing is that this wasn't the only "incident" that happened when I was there

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Serious question. How many people per year are classified as being killed while cleaning a gun?

From Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

"Unintentional Deaths and Injuries In 2010, unintentional firearm injuries caused the deaths of 606 people.18 From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.19 Over 1,300 victims of unintentional shootings for the period 2005–2010 were under 25 years of age.20 People of all age groups are significantly more likely to die from unintentional firearm injuries when they live in states with more guns, relative to states with fewer guns. On average, states with the highest gun levels had nine times the rate of unintentional firearms deaths compared to states with the lowest gun levels.21 A federal government study of unintentional shootings found that 8% of such shooting deaths resulted from shots fired by children under the age of six.22 The U.S. General Accounting Office has estimated that 31% of unintentional deaths caused by firearms might be prevented by the addition of two devices: a child-proof safety lock (8%) and a loading indicator (23%).23"

WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports, 1999-2010, supra note 1. [↩] Id. [↩] Id. [↩] Matthew Miller, Deborah Azrael & David Hemenway, Firearm Availability and Unintentional Firearm Deaths, 33 Accident Analysis & Prevention 477 (July 2001). [↩] U.S. General Accounting Office, Accidental Shootings: Many Deaths and Injuries Caused by Firearms Could Be Prevented 17 (Mar. 1991), at http://161.203.16.4/d20t9/143619.pdf. [↩] Id. A loading indicator, also known as a “chamber load indicator,” is a safety device that indicates at a glance whether a firearm is loaded and whether a round remains in the chamber. [↩]

In reply to PHeller:

FWIW, just about every semi automatic handgun has a "chambered round indicator" on the right hand side of the slide. Heck, even my 107 year old Colt has one. These are always either malicious or negligent acts...nothing more, nothing less.

Condolences go to the family either way.