I don't like it when salesmen call down two spot deliveries at 4:25pm.
I don't like it when salesmen call down two spot deliveries at 4:25pm.
integraguy wrote: In my area we have a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealer that advertises on tv "we can get you into a new Ram Quad Cab for $199....NO MONEY down, NOT a lease. What they only mention once in the ad is that the $199 is BI-MONTHLY. The $199 is mentioned 2 or 3 times, but after the 1st line of dialogue, that BI-MONTHLY is never heard again. They also don't tell you how stretched out your loan term will be because you had no down payment...tho it is BARELY visible in the world's teeny, tiniest letters at the bottom of the tv screen. Tell me dealers don't play games.
You do know that 'bi-monthly' = every two months. "Semi-monthly' is twice a month...
Just sayin...
Scott_H wrote:integraguy wrote: In my area we have a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealer that advertises on tv "we can get you into a new Ram Quad Cab for $199....NO MONEY down, NOT a lease. What they only mention once in the ad is that the $199 is BI-MONTHLY. The $199 is mentioned 2 or 3 times, but after the 1st line of dialogue, that BI-MONTHLY is never heard again. They also don't tell you how stretched out your loan term will be because you had no down payment...tho it is BARELY visible in the world's teeny, tiniest letters at the bottom of the tv screen. Tell me dealers don't play games.You do know that 'bi-monthly' = every two months. "Semi-monthly' is twice a month... Just sayin...
Ah, semantics
To quote Merriam Webster:
1bi·month·ly adj \(ˌ)bī-ˈmən(t)th-lē\ Definition of BIMONTHLY 1: occurring every two months 2: occurring twice a month : semimonthly
For the most part people have no idea how the car business works or what you have to do as a sales person. If you have someone who goes and gets manager approval with every then it's because the MANAGER MAKES THEM. Let me repeat myself. It's company policy to consult the manager before making a price adjustment on a vehicle. Some dealers will give you more freedom to make that decision but where I work I need to get manager approval.
If you don't want to goof around with this system then after you're tired of the back and forth ask for the manager. They will always come down. But if you're in the least bit weak you won't get him down any more. He'll know exactly what to say to get you to agree to HIS price.
It astounds me that people will put up with church boards and car clubs and racing sanctions and all the bullE36 m3 that goes long with that but are unwilling to play the game to get the car they want at a price they want. Here's how you buy a car
Research first. The more you know the more realistic price you'll have when you go shopping. That way when you make an offer you won't upset the dealer. There isn't a whole lot of mark up nowadays with cars. The most markup you'll see in something like a Fusion is about 2500 above invoice for a top of the line Sport AWD model. Making an offer at 5 grand under sticker is unreasonable will make you look like an idiot.
Bring everything you have to the table if you're planning on getting financing from the dealer. Don't agree on the price of the vehicle and have them do a credit check and settle on an interest rate and then say "oh I have a trade." You've caused a headache for the salesman and now have increased the amount of time you'll be spending there. Also if you're planning on trading your current car, bring it with you when you go shopping. That way you don't have to leave and come back again wasting everyone's time.
If the dealer asks "what will it take to get you in this car today." Tell them but don't be ridiculous, unless you're joking of course. You never know unless you ask but don't be surprised if they want to meet you have way on your offer. They've got bills too and you they're not going to take a loss on a new vehicle.
In reply to red5_02:
when i was shopping, i didnt want to tell them i planned on trading, because when i was just there to check out a vehicle and see if i even wanted to buy the damn thing, they would invariably want to appraise my trade. this is OK the first time, as it gives me an idea of what kind of lowball figure trade value is going to start at, but when its the 5th or 6th dealer i've been to, i don't feel like waiting 45 minutes for someone to tell me what i already know...
Mikey52_1 wrote: It sounds to me like the whole process needs to be somewhat less antagonistic than it is. Saturn's idea was great, but it didn't save them from the scrapheap of usetabees in the greater scheme of things. It sounds like the dealers made money, but the manufacturer didn't, or at least not what corporate management thought they should have. I wonder where Saturn would fit in as an independent. I wonder if they could offer the same pricing as they did as a GM division.
Saturn was banging in it's early days. They were selling cars and one of, if not the only, division of GM that was making money.
GM then plundered Saturns profits and poured those into other divisions to keep them afloat.
Saturn cars were not redesigned on schedule to keep the line fresh and modern.
Saturn then withers on the vine and GM subsequently goes bankrupt. GM then kills the divisions that Saturn profits were supporting.
That's what I read. If someone more knowledgeable about GM internal politics and operations can clarify or correct me, please do.
I get bored when the sales guy is gone too long checking with the manager. I'll usually walk around until I find them. Inevitably they are yukking it up and sipping coffee, but jump to attention when they see me. I guess making me wait longer than necessary is part of the sales game, but I am not a fan.
When my wife bought her car, the salesman tried to impress me by telling me that "The previous owner said she wanted us to tell whoever bought this car that she has all of the service records." After we decided to purchase the car, I decided to call him out on the records. I asked for the PO's phone number so that we could get the records, the salesman said "Oh, she doesn't have them- she gave them to us."
Of course, when I asked for them, I was told that it would be illegal for them to give them to me, because of personal information. When I asked for redacted photocopies, then the story became "Oh, I think we already shredded them."
On the topic of fixed price dealerships, we had an L2 Auto used car superstore locally. For the cars we were considering, their "no haggle" prices were all about $2K higher than other dealers, and about $3500-$4000 higher than private party. The salesman were not pushy about actually selling us a car (actually they seemed downright disinterested) but were pushy about telling us to consider vehicles we specifically told them we were not interested in. The dealership lasted 4 months.
I bought a car from one of those fixed price used car dealerships back in the late 90s. An Acura 2.5TL off a 24 mo lease.
It was a smooth easy transaction, the price was fair and the car was perfect. They tried to make all the money back on a trade but since they were not willing to pay a decent price I sold it outright.
When the missus grew tired of that car we went back and the prices were no longer even realistic. Too bad. It was a good idea... fair price, no haggle, nice cars. Obviously... too good to be profitable.
Carmax is doing well these days. No haggle pricing and a great warranty program. They're run by the guys who used to run Circuit City, back when Circuit had good management who knew how to stay profitable.
The prices are higher but in some ways it's worth it.
all car models on the lot
all are checked out for frame damage, previous accidents, etc
great warranty service with a possible purchase of an extended.
easily searchable database with cross country transport if desired. Want that car in CA? We'll have it hear next week.
The headquarters is here in Richmond, Va and they're serious about this business. They're doing a lot of cool stuff on the edge of technology. They're about to drop a boatload in improvements on their current tech stance as well.
Yikes, I haven't had the same bad experiences at dealers that some of you have. The wife and I both bought new Mazda 3s back in June (I picked up the Speed 3).
There is one Mazda dealer in Tulsa and two in OKC. I called all three and told them what we wanted to do, trade in my low mileage mint 350Z and buy the two Mazda 3s for a good price.
Heck, all three dealers came in with trade-in prices above book without seeing the car. Where we traded it in, I only received about $700 less than I paid for the car three months before.........also off a new car dealer's lot.
We let the dealer handle the financing since the wife's car was 0% APR for the term. And because I didn't want to fill out more than one credit app.
The only problem we had was the day before we picked up the cars while waiting for them to get my financing done, he called me back with a ridiculous APR on my car (think 15%), especially given our credit scores/income.
I bluntly told him, "My wife is going to buy her car regardless of the deal on the Speed 3. However, we BOTH KNOW what type of interest rate you should be calling to offer me on my car. If you don't call me back with the correct % APR on my deal, we will picking up 1 car instead of 2 at the end of the week."
He called me back with a sub 4% APR the next morning.
I wonder how much of it boils down to people getting all "hot and bothered" about having a new car and just sign anything to have one?
z31maniac wrote: I wonder how much of it boils down to people getting all "hot and bothered" about having a new car and just sign anything to have one?
I would say youre on to something...the ratio of sheeple to people probably propagated this heavily up until a few years ago when anyone with a pulse could get credit. Id bet that since the bubble burst, the credit for free scheme has changed, but the shenanigans the dealers use probably havent.
skruffy wrote: Also, those of you that think you're getting a better deal by not telling me you have a trade till the deal is finalized are sorely mistaken. Now that I know you're buying the car I'm going to hold all I can on your trade value, usually to the point that I'll blow the deal over it just cause it pisses me off so much
What about telling you I have a trade-in but then deciding not to trade it in at the end? If a customer comes in to buy a car and plans to trade in their old car, the dealer has two places to make profit - selling the new car and selling the trade-in. If the dealer plans to make $3000 profit on me, they could split it evenly between the new and old, but they could also make me think I'm a shrewd negotiator by "letting" me negotiate the new car price down another $500 while the dealer is also planning on cutting how much they'll give me for the trade in by $500. So now instead of making $1500 on the new car and $1500 on the trade in, they'll make $1000 on the new car and $2000 on the trade in. What if I then suddenly decide "you know what, if that's all you're going to give me for my trade-in I'll just give it to my nephew, but I still want the negotiated price for the new car." Is that something that could happen? Just curious.
Bob
definitely the more you know, the better off you are going in. Starting with an invoice price is a good beginning + incentives. There can also be hidden incentives offered to dealers but not the public - these usually get outed these days as well as variations in invoice costs - high volume dealers may get extra spiffs from the mfg or special pricing for reaching certain volumes. There are also dealer holdbacks (or a percentage received back to the dealer - so it is possible to sell at invoice price and have something left to pay the light bill). Dealer profits also get determined by how fast they can turn inventory around - since they have to finance their inventory...
The fast way to the bottom line is a single question to the dealer - how much do you need to make on this car? Very shortly after that question you will be dealing with the sales manager - a brief challenge of whether you know what their cost is or close enough. Then it's just a matter if you and the dealer can come to terms with how much profit on a car is fair or reflects the market. If you can't agree within 5 minutes, leave - either you don't know the market or the dealer wants more than you think is fair - you can always leave a number if they change their mind. If you've done your homework it's a very fast, easy transaction. sold saabs, porsche, audi, vw. It is also helpful to show up at the end of a month - esp. if they're just short of a goal. They will still have you visit with the F&I person - this is where successful sales managers go. Figure out your financing before you show up or you will pay more than you need. If the dealer can match terms or do better - good for you. As far as the payment question - it serves a couple of purposes -finding a realistic car for the buyer and tells the sales folks what kind of buyer they are dealing with. Another common ploy is an unrealistic selling price by the dealer/salesperson - just answers a question of whether you are actually a potential buyer or not - amazing how many people show up to kill a Saturday afternoon and take a ride in a new car.
Schmidlap wrote:skruffy wrote: Also, those of you that think you're getting a better deal by not telling me you have a trade till the deal is finalized are sorely mistaken. Now that I know you're buying the car I'm going to hold all I can on your trade value, usually to the point that I'll blow the deal over it just cause it pisses me off so muchWhat about telling you I have a trade-in but then deciding not to trade it in at the end? If a customer comes in to buy a car and plans to trade in their old car, the dealer has two places to make profit - selling the new car and selling the trade-in. If the dealer plans to make $3000 profit on me, they could split it evenly between the new and old, but they could also make me think I'm a shrewd negotiator by "letting" me negotiate the new car price down another $500 while the dealer is also planning on cutting how much they'll give me for the trade in by $500. So now instead of making $1500 on the new car and $1500 on the trade in, they'll make $1000 on the new car and $2000 on the trade in. What if I then suddenly decide "you know what, if that's all you're going to give me for my trade-in I'll just give it to my nephew, but I still want the negotiated price for the new car." Is that something that could happen? Just curious. Bob
Thats exactly what happened to us. We were buying a brand new car using a very good employee purchase plan (a family member retired from the mfr after several dozen years of loyal service) that got us a deal on a car which currently had no other incentives. This car was the highest selling model for this mfr for the sales year, and therefore, when we wanted a model the dealer couldnt find with the options and color etc we wanted, he decided to order the car special from the mfr. Normally this required a down payment, but because this car was so hot, and we were ordering a reasonable color/trim/options combo he felt comfortable he could sell regardless, he decided to proceed without the deposit.
They were going to offer $xxx for our Saturn in trade as a part of the deal. The number was fair, but was considerably lower than an individual sale, and also left a lot of room to come up to what comparable Saturns were selling for on other used car lots. Regardless, we were satisfied we werent being screwed and decided to proceed. When a family member heard what we were being offered for the car, and needing a reliable, used, 1 owner car with records available, they decided to offer to purchase the car for the middle point between the dealer offer and current used-lot prices, making us a few extra bucks (brought it above what we still owed) and saving him a few $k as well.
When we went back to the dealer and told him the trade was no longer on the table, he tried to pull out if we werent willing to come up on the new car price. Turns out he was willing to basically take a hit on the new car for the potential profit on the used one. Kinda made sense at first because they were going to basically sell it for less than invoice. But after we learned the way it worked - the mfr reimburses the dealer for the discount - he really wouldnt take a hit at all. He just would make 0 money. Turns out trying to profiteer on the retired family purchase plan got the dealership in some hot water, and we got the car for what we were originally told. The concession was that we would use the dealerships finance bank and they would get a kickback for referring a new loan.
I admit that we changed the terms of the deal by selling the car, but we were willing to put the cash we were already going to receive back into the purchase price of the new car. It wasnt shady as some of the stories here, but still didnt sit well.
I have good experiences and bad experiences.
Recently, I had to lease a car for work. It was a 2008 impreza. I asked for the most basic model, I didn't care what color. I asked for the best deal, including a set of new unmounted snow tires. I was upfront about the tires. Everything was happy, financing not a problem, until the morning I was suppose to sign the paperwork, sales man called back to say his manager misunderstood about the snow tires, and he'd have to charge us extra. I was pretty peaved at that point and told him I'd have to talk to my manager and ended the phone conversation politely, hung up the phone and called the other subie dealership close to us. Oddly enough, owned by the same person. Asked for their best price with a set of unmounted snow tires. Came back with the exact same price down to the penny, and no static about the additional tires. Not entirely sure why one dealership did it and the other said they could, but changed their mind.
The interesting thing was that a month later, I had to lease another two cars(tribecas), and went back to the place that leased me the impreza. For whatever reason, they introduced me to the owner of the dealership, while waiting for something to sign. We chatted about my experience with the sale, yadda yadda. I explained my expereince with my impreza deal and the other dealership. He claimed he'd look into it, and call me back, but never did. For me the important things are don't promise something, unless you know you can do it. Secondly, listen to what I'm asking for.
I don't get the problem with lower then normal sale price on trade in's. I mean comeon, every car gets checked off from a checklist, that is $. 99.3%, aka nearly everything, of every vehicle gets some sort of variable priced maintenance work, that is even more $. I, as a dealer, don't really care if your car is perfect to you. It isn't perfect and normally far from it. You aren't going to profit on my dime is what the dealer believes and sticks by it. Plus a trade-in is the easy way out and the dealer knows that too. If it is paid for and you don't get your price, drive away. What is so hard about that?
I've done UCI's on trade-in/auction vehicles and have had work denied because what I wrote up was wrong far exceeded the profit potential from the vehicle sale.
Brian
The last dealership I dealt with... or should I say salesman, was down to earth and cut me a awesome deal. I will be visiting them again when the wifeys BMW eats it. But I must admit, that is my only dealership experience
Xceler8x wrote: The last two cars I've purchased (Mazdaspeed3, Forester) were all email negotiations. I'd start by contacting all dealerships selling the car in a 75 mile radius. The ones who got back to me with a price are the ones I then communicate with.
I went this route when we got our Mazda3 last spring and it worked out well enough that I'd do it again. I got numbers from three dealers and went to the one that quoted me the lowest out-the-door price. The only wrinkle was that when I went to see the salesman, he started crunching numbers and couldn't figure out how he got to the number that he quoted me. It took him and his bosses a good half-hour to find a way to get within $500 of what I was quoted. I wanted to walk on principle (their not honoring their quote) but they still wound up beating the other two quotes I had.
Then they totally F'd up the registration, but that's another story for another day.
On the plus side, the car is great.
I also don't like it when a salesman sells a car long before I'm done with it, it gets delivered, the customer and salesman are both happy and all is well.... except that some manager who is completely uninvolved thinks that this car gets special treatment for its big rimz, intake, exhaust, and tune so they demand that I spend 3 hours "fixing" it when I have better things to do.
If it was the customer or the salesman that had issues, no problem at all... some random manager that just finished taking a sold vehicle for some "spirited" laps of the parking lot, not so much...
On an aside, a lightly modded Charger will move right along....
Or when the big boss sells some disgustingly filthy wholesale POS Caravan and wants it completely recon'd for 5.... at noon....
integraguy wrote: In my area we have a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealer that advertises on tv "we can get you into a new Ram Quad Cab for $199....NO MONEY down, NOT a lease. What they only mention once in the ad is that the $199 is BI-MONTHLY. The $199 is mentioned 2 or 3 times, but after the 1st line of dialogue, that BI-MONTHLY is never heard again. They also don't tell you how stretched out your loan term will be because you had no down payment...tho it is BARELY visible in the world's teeny, tiniest letters at the bottom of the tv screen. Tell me dealers don't play games.
The local Suzuki dealer used to do something similar. He would hawk $99 and $199 payments on new cars, but if you read the fine print it was $99 for the first three months, and then jumped to like $426.53 or something.
People that don't read fine print= boned
Worked at CarMax for 3 years while finishing up my engineering degree and made Presidents Club (sales honor) also an Above and Beyond Award (customer nominated honor) winner, what you wanna know about them?
I see a few things on here, that has been blown out of proportion.
So the statement "we only make $2500 on a new one and asking us to knock off $5000 makes you look like an idiot." is wrong. You just won't make anything that day and the salesman will only get a micro, (minimum commission.) If you don't believe me look at the CarMax new Nissan store on their website and compare the price to a new "invoice" price from their local dealer. CarMax has an equation for each dealership on how much mark up over true cost they make on new cars. They give alot of the kick back to the customers.
Talk to my manager is one of three tactics,one is the dealerships policy only to negotiate via sales manager, two it is the policy before someone leaves to talk to the sales manager to make sure the sales man did his job.
Three is the salesman thinks there is a sales there and he just isn't pushing the right buttons, he is looking for back-up.
The "what is your payment range" is a double edged sword. One you are absolutely right in some people have no idea how much a car costs vs monthly payment. This addresses that. The other is now you have told the salesman a figure and he can put you in a car that will make him the most money. Also you might have meant $300 for 4 years and end up in the back room with $300 for 6. Here is a rule of thumb, $100 per month for 5 years for every $5000 financed. Some rates will get you better, some will do much worse, but that prevents the $50K vehicle for $300 a month for 5 years problem.
If you have a trade that is owed on, be up front. If not, here is a piece of advice. 90% of the time sell it yourself and make more money. Dealers have learned from Carmax and they now make their money when they buy them. Selling is getting harder to make money on with all the information online.
Incentives online are not always complete. (this has already been said.) Talking to a dealer, will get you more information. Call them if you don't want a run around.
Email negotiation works. I bought my 5 that way. Took 3 days, but I got the price I wanted. Which was 27% less than their asking price. ($14,900 asking vs $11,700 paid.)
Honesty is the best policy, but keeping info to yourself is allowed, and encouraged, for the best deal. Don't say anything involving price till the end. If they ask what you are looking at payment wise. Do your homework with the little formula above and tell them your minimum total price. Don't start in the middle just the low end of the range for what you have comp shopped similarly.
Arrange financing first and let the dealer compete with it. Don't waste your time over 0.01% That way you know where you are and what your budget is. No worries. If you want to know who the top sales man is in the dealership, don't look at the sales manager, look at the finance manager. They are the hardest in the building.
Last skruffy, did you ever think it is your attitude? I had a sales slump and I was, on paper, doing everything right. It actually ended up being me, my body language was off due to personal things in my life. I wasn't happy and no matter how hard I faked it the customer felt it. I don't know if they told you this where you work but you are selling a relationship of you to the customer, not a car. You are now the face of the dealership and the customer now sees you and the dealership as one.
Good luck, if you want some help and can't get it at your dealership PM me and we can talk maybe I can help you through it. I enjoyed my job selling because I recommended what I thought was best for my customers. I didn't look at the money. If the car was questionable in the reliability record department (read land rovers etc.) I sold the extended warranty (another topic all together.) I learned who the customer was and what their needs were. I took the time to help them. I became an auto consultant not just a salesman. To just define the level I took it to, the other salesman came to me instead of the managers and buyers to help them with a customers needs. Like any other job, to be great you need to be dedicated.
If it was easy everyone would do it.
To avoid most of these problems you just have to buy a car no one wants. When I bought my wife's 02 Malibu in sept of 02 they were tripping over themselves to get it off the property. I ended up with their no money down, no interest financing, way too much for my trade, a full tank of gas, they did everything but pay me for the privilage of undercoating it.
Wally wrote: To avoid most of these problems you just have to buy a car no one wants. When I bought my wife's 02 Malibu in sept of 02 they were tripping over themselves to get it off the property. I ended up with their no money down, no interest financing, way too much for my trade, a full tank of gas, they did everything but pay me for the privilage of undercoating it.
I did that for my MIL, on her Cavalier.
She knew exactly what she wanted, and said the dealer would not budge on MSRP, or even even throw in undercoating.
We went to another dealer with too many on the lot, and saved over $3500.
In reply to Zomby woof:
A Cavalier? I am perhaps not so crazy about my MIL, but I don't think I'd go all Cavalier on her ass.
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