Toymanswife
Toymanswife Reader
5/19/20 6:19 p.m.

So my kid brother is intent on buying a motorcycle. Of course, the entire family is unhappy about this but he is going to do it anyway and he is at least making smart decisions about gear, safety classes ect. He has found one in Jackson, Mississippi that he is interested in buying....and since he knows zero about them as of right now, he wanted to get it checked out by a mechanic. All of the ones he has found are backed up until July. Does anyone live in that area and know anything about motorcycles.... or know a mechanic they could sweet talk into checking this bike out?

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/19/20 6:58 p.m.

In reply to Toymanswife :

There's a member on here from that area...if I can remember his username. 

matthewmcl (Forum Supporter)
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) Reader
5/19/20 7:25 p.m.

The biggest thing with buying your first motorcycle is that after six months, you realize you bought the wrong motorcycle.  As long as it is cheap, show up with your own safety gear and have the current owner take you for a ride.  There are a couple of bikes that are good beginner bikes and still really enjoyed by experts, but only a couple.

If he is going a long distance to get a really good deal, awesome.  If he thinks he has found the perfect bike, he is unlikely to be correct.  There is a lot more perception vs. reality with two wheels than with four.  If you can, push him towards something cheap that he won't cry when he drops it, and to buy a "real" first bike the first two weeks of January when the Christmas credit card bills come in and bikes are cheap.  By then he will know what he really wants.

If you can't, well...

What kind of bike is it?  We can at least create a list of things to look for and things to not worry about.  Going for a ride on the back with the owner riding it briskly is useful, and as long as the owner knows that is expected before hand, should not be a problem.  If the owner is uncomfortable doing the demo, then you might be too.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/19/20 10:21 p.m.

In reply to Toymanswife :

Found him! 

toymansbrotherinlaw
toymansbrotherinlaw
5/20/20 5:20 p.m.

In reply to matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) :

Hi!

I am the brother in question. Done a bit of riding before but not much, so I'm signed up for the MSF safety course next week. Gear came in this week.

Planning on either getting the 2016 Indian Scout I'm looking at in Jackson, or I'm going to get a Kawasaki Vulcan. ABS model on both. I've gone to the dealership and sat on similar mopdesl of both to check them out. The scout has 7,657 miles on it, 2 owners, garage kept. Guy says he just doesn't have time to ride it at this point. Ran the VIN and it's never been dropped (and reported), all of the pictures look spotless. Going to make sure he keeps it cold for when I go to view it etc. 

If y'all have any suggestions on reliable "mom and pop" style mechanics or if @pk386 (I don't know how tagging works on here?) knows anything, that would be awesome! A list of things to look for would also go a long way.

Really appreciate it!smiley

 

 

matthewmcl (Forum Supporter)
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) Reader
5/21/20 12:39 a.m.

In reply to toymansbrotherinlaw :

Glad to see you here!  The MSF courses are awesome. Do they provide bikes where you are?  Some places do, many don't.  I learned to ride in Southern California and dealerships donate bikes out there because it is good for business.  The instructors know there stuff.  Since you haven't taken the class yet, you still have the perfect opportunity to ask an instructor/enthusiast what to look for when shopping for a bike, all while standing next to a bike.  That will be more useful than anything any of us can say, here.

I am going to throw some basic info out, so forgive me if you know it already.

There are four basic riding positions and they are determined by the location of your feet.  If you want to control your bike easily, the location of your feet is the most important thing.  Feet behind CG = sport bike.  Feet under CG = standard.  Feet a little forward or maybe "sitting upright in a chair" = touring.  Feet forward of your knees = cruiser.  Dirt bikes are a standard position, so are sport-tourers.  "Standard" is a funny classification these days, because only a few street bikes are still made that way.  Dirt bikes need good control, so they are in the "standard" position.  Sport bikes need aero, so you lean forward.  If you go the speeds they are designed for, you fly your torso and you really don't have weight on your wrists.  That only starts to happen about 90 mph, or so.

Sport bikes are for people who want nothing but speed (even though the sport bike position is not the fastest at legal speeds). Touring bikes are generally purchased by older folks whose knees don't bend as well as they used to.  Cruisers are usually purchased for looks.  Sport-tourers, dirt bikes, and standards are usually purchased by reasonably in shape people who just want to ride all day on fun roads.  Okay, that's my soap box, but, every single one of those types can be enjoyed by the person looking for it.

Before you drop big cash on a bike, learn to ride. Learn to ride on a bike that maximizes your control.  Get a standard riding position and something light (preferably under 400 pounds for the street, though you can push to 450 for the right bike).  If you can, spend under $2000 and buy something that has already been dropped.  You won't cry (as much) when you drop it, and it will be worth just as much when you sell it. The smaller and lighter you get, the easier it will be to pass your skills test.

Riding is magical.  Bikes are like dogs.  Try to stand still and they yank you around.  Walk and they do okay.  Jog and they are right with you.  Run and they are on your heel, following your every move.  On a bike you can shift, clutch, brake, throttle, turn on your high beams, hit your horn, and turn, all at the same time without really having to move your body, and without taking any of your hands or feet off of your controls.

The standard position follows you better than the other positions.  Your best balance in tricky situations is with your butt off the saddle, even if only 1/2 inch.  Do you want to see masters of control? Youtube trials riding. Those bikes don't even have seats. When you sit on a bike, keep in mind that you steer more by pushing on the handlebars than by pulling on them. You need a position that makes it easy to push. Make sure you can stand.  Do need to do a pushup to get off the saddle, do you need to pull on the handlebars, or can you just stand up?

https://charleston.craigslist.org/mcy/d/north-charleston-2019-honda-cb300r/7113828104.html

https://charleston.craigslist.org/mcy/d/charleston-honda-cb750/7122367800.html

Take a look at both of those bikes.  They seem very different styles, but both have the footpegs under the front part of the seat (the low spot). Those are both standards.  Either could have the pegs back another inch or so, but much past that and it becomes a "sport" riding position.

Somewhere as you learn to ride, you will form a better idea of what you want to get out of it.  There are no wrong answers, only truth and lies.  Do want to look cool? Do you want to impress people? Do you want to ride with a group? Do you want to ride by yourself? Are you going to commute or just ride to meet friends for food and drinks on Saturdays? Is 150 miles a long ride or a good time to stop for breakfast?

A bike with 8000 miles and two owners looking for a third? Imagine buying a car, you are going to be the third owner and it only has 8000 miles.  Mileage that low, likely there is not a thing wrong or worn out. It should need tires, but I bet it doesn't. That was purchased by somebody who thought it looks cool, but did not know much about riding.  They rode it some, but it wasn't great. They needed to find a reason to ride it and they couldn't, so they sold it.  The next buyer did the same thing.  Take a look at the mileage on that CB750.  Nobody needed a reason to ride that one, they went looking for excuses. 

For what it's worth, I had 30,000 miles on two wheels before I had 50 in a car. I have ridden coast to coast (3000 miles in 4 days), in the rain and snow, loaded with luggage or just around the block. My last non-project bike was a SV650 (same year and color as linked below). My next bike will be even smaller, but that is just me.  I have known beginners with the SV650 and they loved it.  The two guys I know with the most miles under their belts also each rode SV650 as their main bike. One of those riders had 750,000 miles on bikes as of 15 years ago, and he pushed hard enough that he was on an never-ending quest trying to find any tire that would last longer than 3000 miles. He rode 2000 miles a month.

https://wilmington.craigslist.org/mcy/d/carolina-beach-2000-sv650-for-sale/7118369208.html

I bought mine with 10,000 miles on it and I put another 80,000 miles on it.  It developed a slight oil leak after 75,000 miles or so, and used 1/4 quart every 6000 miles.  I should have fixed the seal, but at usage that low I didn't really worry.

Some people like the looks of air-cooled, but water-cooled will almost always last longer and have much lower required maintenance.  The temperature stability of water-cooled allows things to work better.  That is a very minor point to keep in mind down the road.  You are not likely to keep your first bike long enough to wear it out, unless it is almost there when you buy it, which is still fine.

First bike, focus on software; you can worry about the hardware later.

Hopefully this was useful for you. Let me know if you need me to do better than just meander.

Matthew

 

matthewmcl (Forum Supporter)
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) Reader
5/21/20 12:40 a.m.

Holy crap that's a big wall of text. I must be tired. Sorry about that.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
5/21/20 1:26 a.m.

No 600 anything is a beginner bike. Don't let a broski or pirate convince him different. 

Justjim75
Justjim75 Dork
5/21/20 1:42 a.m.

Displacement has nothing to do with being a good beginner bike, thats what the throttle is for.  Seat height, weight, center of gravity are way more important.  A heavy bike, or one that has a high center of gravity is more difficult to move around without dropping it.  Back a 700 pound bike out of a parking spot that is inclined and you'll see what  i mean.  This is also why i mentioned seat height, tippy toes makes the whole thing more difficult, especially getting used to redlights and stop signs.  Even worse on a hill.  Get a lighter bike (usually means smaller engine) or at least one you can move around easily both on and off of it.  You're gonna drop it.  Bikes with smaller engines are more forgiving, usually lighter and cheaper.  The 2 cruisers you mentioned are not what i would recommend but you know you better than we do.  My go to first bike advice is Suzuki GS500, Ninja 250, Honda Nighthawk etc.  My first real bike was a Honda CL350 Scrambler and i would take it back right now as my forever bike because it fits all of my recommendations above and is a hoot.  Ive been riding since 1986

glueguy (Forum Supporter)
glueguy (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/21/20 6:56 a.m.

Wow. matthewmcl, that was cool - never had one or interest in one, but really appreciated reading that and learning a little bit.

 

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/21/20 7:27 a.m.

A few hundred to a couple of thousand miles annually seems to be the average most bikes see. Heck, I have an 18 year old full on touring bike (GoldWing) that only has 40k on it and that's considered high mileage for most bikes.

So I wouldn't worry about the mileage or that the Scout had two owners in four to five years. Most bike people I know have worse Automotive ADHD than car people.

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
5/21/20 9:58 a.m.

Matthew's post is full of excellent advice, and I hope the OP heeds it. When I started riding again recently, I definitely ignored most of that advice... 

I'll emphasize, as someone who recently just started riding on the street after very limited motorcycle experience in my youth:

  • You'll drop the bike. Buy something you don't mind dropping.
  • I don't care about displacement, but bike balance at low speeds is more challenging with a heavy, high center of gravity bike.
  • The first bike you buy won't be the right bike for you. Plan to get something to work on software, then upgrade when you are a better rider.
  • Riding a motorcycle is NOT like driving a car. It takes practice, but it's rewarding because you can watch your skills develop. You'll still be learning after thousands of miles. 

 

Finally, no need to have a 2016 with 7k miles checked out. It's fine. 

bigeyedfish
bigeyedfish Reader
5/21/20 5:08 p.m.

I had a pretty gnarly crash a couple days ago.  100% would have killed me if I hadn't been wearing a good helmet.  I have a pretty good bruise on my collar bone from the chin bar on the helmet, so I would probably be going through a bunch of reconstructive surgery if it hadn't been a full-face helmet.  I still have some injuries - two broken fingers, amputated about half my ring finger, and some nice bruises - but without good gear I'd be dead or at least royally berkeleyed up.

I'm not suggesting you don't ride.  I hope to ride on the road again some day, but I'm going to give my family some time to mentally recover before we have that conversation.  I'm just chiming in to say that gear is at least as important as the bike.  Helmet, jacket, gloves, boots every damn time.  No E36 M3.  It saved my life this week.

matthewmcl (Forum Supporter)
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) Reader
5/21/20 6:15 p.m.

In reply to bigeyedfish :

Glad to hear you survived that; truly.  Right about the same time the HANS device was being developed for cars, the Leatt brace was being developed for bikes.  I used a neck ring until I wore it out, and then upgraded to a Leatt.  They help prevent neck injuries and prevent a lot of broken collar bones.

ATGATT (All The Gear All The Time). Add good riding pants to your list.  The skin on your legs is tougher than jeans.  I wear two-piece leathers that zip together.  I am on my third set and I don't think I have ever spent more than $400.  Generally I am wearing boots that actually cost more than my leathers.  I have worn ballistic nylon gear, but not on a freeway (unless I had leather underneath).  Leathers make asphault angels a pretty small deal. Kind of like an expensive waterslide.

I hydroplaned and flipped a motorcyle upside down on a highway at about 55.  I was dressed like the Michelin Man except my gloves were ski gloves and not proper winter motorcycle gauntlets.  One glove pulled off and I scraped my left pinky. ATGATT

You bring up the most import thing in this thread.  Toymansbrotherinlaw stated that he was starting with the gear, but we took too long to make a good list.  I guess it is like crapcan racing; you can skimp on the bike, but never skimp on the gear.

Any lessons learned in your recent crash to share with the class so we don't repeat your mistake?

Toymanswife
Toymanswife Reader
5/21/20 7:15 p.m.

He researched his gear a lot. The helmet, jacket and gloves he has. He does not have riding pants which I have mentioned. I have seen a couple that wrecked with jeans only. Her skin grafts made me decide I could never be a nurse.... not to mention the pins in her legs. 

Just an fyi, my brother is in Memphis. Finding a bike there would be a lot easier than the one he has his eye on. I have certainly learned a lot from this post about bikes.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
5/21/20 10:03 p.m.

Gear, aside from a helmet, can be picked up for pennies in the dollar used. I probably have over $1000 worth of safety equipment and I might be into the whole thing for half, and that includes a new Arai helmet. 

Boots, jackets and gloves often show up here: shopgoodwill.com. Search "Motorcycle."  CL and FaceBalls, too. 

bigeyedfish
bigeyedfish Reader
5/22/20 7:39 a.m.

In reply to matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) :

Lessons...  Honestly, I'm not sure that I have anything.  I was accelerating on a highway entrance ramp and went into a mean tank slapper at about 70-75 mph.  No idea why it started.  I don't think there was anything in the road.  I don't think anything mechanical broke or slipped.  I had good, new tires.  That bike (Ninja 650) has done a bit of a shimmy under hard acceleration a few times, but I've always ridden through it with no issues whatsoever.  I don't know why this time was different.

My hand got trapped between the bike and the asphalt and burned through my glove (armored back of hand, leather, but summer weight) which led to the finger amputation.  If my hand hadn't gotten stuck, I would have just called for a ride home, no big deal.

matthewmcl (Forum Supporter)
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) Reader
5/22/20 7:42 a.m.

I have had really good luck looking for "last year's on closeout" leathers.  You can often get 60%-70% off.  I have also worn a lot of good used stuff, too.

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
5/22/20 4:57 p.m.

Another vote for used gear. I have bought quite a few pieces, and you'll need that variety to meet the seasonal riding conditions. 

 

Bigeyedfish, good luck with your recovery, and I'm glad you made it without serious injury. 

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/22/21 12:17 p.m.
Fannyta said:

It's important to choose not a powerful rocket for the begging.

Well that's certainly a mantra to live by. 

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
2/22/21 12:53 p.m.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:
Fannyta said:

It's important to choose not a powerful rocket for the begging.

Well that's certainly a mantra to live by. 

That is exactly how I try to live my life.  

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
2/22/21 1:42 p.m.

I can't wait to see how that rocket turns into a canoe. 

secretariata (Forum Supporter)
secretariata (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/22/21 8:20 p.m.

Not sure what Fannyta is talking about.  I've always lived my life begging for powerful rockets.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
2/23/21 5:50 p.m.

Fannyta's 2 post are garbage.  

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
D6YHEDCehKwUqQksvYyJjBivHXBVTTXlqp2XTmyuh8yhwL8qzuJn37Zr1sdgufTo