John Deere 265 Tractor driving me nuts!

OK, so it's not car-related per se, but it is sort-of grassroots...I have this John Deere 265 garden tractor I bought for $600 a couple of years ago. It's about a mid-nineties vintage. After I bought it, I installed a new battery, changed the oil, oil filter (spin on pressurized lube, just like a car), both air filters, spark plug, fuel filter; serviced the hydrostatic drive unit, and generally did all the preventative/ deferred maintenance I could think of.

Now I am having a most maddening problem with the tractor, specifically with the Kawasaki one-lung engine. It's unbeleivably difficult to start when cold- I'll crank and crank and crank, try choke, no choke, min throttle, max throttle- finally after maybe 3 to 5 minutes worth of cranking it'll start to sputter, and then (usually) fire up and run. And it runs perfectly. Then I'll proceed to mow with it, and anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes later it would sputter and die. I found I could prolong the agony by shutting the choke slightly, and it would keep on chugging, but eventually it would die. And then it would be dead in the yard, would not restart until it had cooled off for an hour or so, and then the same old cycle would repeat. I rebuilt the carburetor, checked the spark, compression, etc. Nothing helped.

I talked to the guy at the Deere dealership and he said they'd seen this problem a lot on these tractors. He said it was the ethanol in the fuel. He recommended I replace the fuel filter, drain the old gas out, run ethanol-free fuel, and that would solve it. So I replaced the fuel filter, drained the tank, installed a new plug, new air filters for the heck of it, and cleaned the carb with carb cleaner. I filled it with ethanol-free gas, and have been religiously using only ethanol-free gas for 2 or 3 tanks now. It's still just as hard to start, but for the first few mows it at least didn't cut out and I could mow the whole yard without issue.

Yesterday my wife agreed to mow the lawn. We managed to get the tractor started, and it ran for about 30 minutes before cutting out on her. I went to the engine and removed the fuel line from the fuel pump and cranked the engine- a steady stream of fuel pumped happily from the pump. I aimed the fuel into the hose, then stuck the hose back ontot he pump, and the tractor started. I drove it down to the barn, let it sit for an hour, pulled the plug, cleaned it (it was mildly sooted, but not bad) and it fired right up and the wife was able to finish the lawn without a problem. Later that night, I went to re-start the tractor to pull it into the barn, and cranked and cranked and cranked for 3 or 4 minutes but it wouldn't even sputter.

The only other thing out of the ordinary is that the battery light on the dash either flashes or glows steadily whenever the tractor is running. I have no idea why this is, and figured it might be a glitch, as the tractor will run for hours and crank repeatedly just fine- the battery never seems to be running low.

I've looked at all the forums online and no one seems to have an answer for my malady. I can't believe I'm being stumped by a !@#$ one cylinder tractor engine. It has spark, it has fuel, it has compression, and the exhaust is clearly working, so I have "Suck Squeeze Bang Blow" covered...is there some magical Fifth Element I'm missing here? I'm about to take the bloody thing out back and pump it full of hot lead from my shotgun.

Re: sputter and die after a while. Have you tried running the thing with the gas tank cap off/loose? I wonder if you're pulling a vacuum over time and have a pinched vent somewhere.

Re: hard starting. Are you certain it's getting fuel while cranking? Have you tried squirting fuel into it manually and seeing if it will fire quickly?

I agree, sounds like fuel supply. As in lack of.

They're hot under the hood, and notorious for evaporating the bowl when parked.

Electrical fuel inlet valve on the carburetor that frequently sticks/plugs, restricting fuel flow in.

Weak and frequently semi-plugged fuel pump on the side of the engine.

Fuel supply valve on the tank frequently isn't opened all the way.

Inlet fuel filter in tank (I think) that gets blocked nicely with mowing debris that magically finds its way into the gas tank.

And god help you if you park it outside. Ethanol fuels can suck water from humidity and rain at an incredible rate. Park it inside if at all possible. Same with the gas cans, don't leave them outside.

oh, and my JD, a LT155 of about the same vintage with the Kohler, runs super happy-time on ethanol laced swill and has for several years now with only oil changes required.

How many hours on the engine? Sounds almost like a compression problem. Loss of power after engine gets hot is the usual indication..

I agree, it seems like a fuel issue to me...except...

I have tried loosening the cap, etc. The cap is properly vented, I checked that.

I've tried squirting a bit of fuel into the carb while cranking. Didn't help. Neither did starting fluid, weirdly.

I have repeatedly checked the operation, removed, and cleaned the electrical solenoid at the bottom of the float bowl. It click-clacks back and forth perfectly.

Lately whenever the tractor won't start, I disconnect the line from the vacuum fuel pump to the carb and check for fuel. It's always pumping happily away when I crank.

Fuel tank supply valve is opened all the way.

After I drained the tank I checked the screen inside the tank with a light. It looks clean and new.

Tractor is always garaged, as are the gas cans.

I agree, i think the ethanol-thing was a cop-out by the Deere guy...he said b/c the tractor is older it may not have been designed for it. ??

My next step may be to disassemble the fuel sytem and replace ALL the lines. This will be a major PITA, as some of the lines run through very tight spots from the under-seat tank tot he fuel pump. Maybe some lines are old, cracked, dry-rotting and partially pinched, allowing air in, or clogging the system with bits of rubber debris?

Also, when I got the tractor the fuel filter was between the tank and the pump. From my automotive days, I knew this was a bad idea, so I moved the filter between the pump and carb. But the JD guy I talked to insisted it should be between the tank and pump. So yesterday I tried relocating it. No difference that I could tell.

I had a similar issue with my Craftsman garden tractor. it turned out that the carb had enough junk in it to cause the problems. have you tried tacking the float bowl off and inspecting it?

Compression's good, only about 400 hours on the engine. Doesn't burn a drop of oil, and has good power...when it runs. Chewed through foot-tall grass yesterday without skipping abeat after I got it restarted.

Rebuilt he carb about a year ago, and sprayed it with carb cleaner god knows how many times.

How is the fuel consumption when it's running?

My tractor would starve for fuel and shut off after about 10 minutes run time from a blocked fuel tank cap vent, removing the felt-like material under the cap vent hole solved it. Always started cold though.

There's a strainer in the bottom of fuel tanks, did you clean that out when you drained the tank?

What's collected in the fuel filter? I use the clear bowl type, I found rubber bits after I started using the ethanol, I 'spose it can degrade the older fuel hose. You can see the fuel flow too. Did you change the fuel hoses? Those rubber bits used to plug the carb orifices on my push mower till I put new fuel hose on. They'd float around in the bowl and shut off fuel after about 5 minutes running.

edit: I posted w/o reading Volvos next to last post. Sounds like you're on the right track.

The tractor is not old enough, too much modern stuff on there!

OK, you've done a number of good checks and have solid info that many sections are indeed just fine.

But you didn't say if you checked to make sure gasoline is actually filling up the carburetor bowl, or that the carburetor passages are clear.

Seperately, when it's happily not starting, have you checked spark?

If you are certain you've ruled out fuel, I would look at the electrical.

Does it have a low oil pressure shut down? A marginal sender can cause problems starting and when hot.

Start by bypassing all the safety switches to see if that improves the cold start and the hot shut down. If tha doesn't help I'd jumper out the key to see if the switch is part of the problem.

When cranking does it sound like its to catch, but dies as soon as you let go of the key? Or not fire until you let go of the key?

If you disconnect the battery while its running does it die?

I'd also dig into the charge light more. Maybe pull the flywheel and inspect all the wiring to make sure there aren't any loose grounds, bad condenser, or a coil wired backwards when someone replaced it.

I have checked spark when it's happily pumping fuel and not starting. Got Spark.

I use the JD-recommended fuel filters, which are clear. None of the one's I've changed (it's on its 3rd now, in 2 years) has appeared "gunky". Although sometimes the filter does not appear to have fuel in it. Which is weird, as I said, I'll then pull the pump line off and the pump is still pumping. I wonder if air is getting trapped somewhere?

Also, the fact that starting fluid doesn't even make the engine wantt to start really throws me on the fuel angle.

This particular engine has something called an "igniter" on the ignition, like a little ignition module. Some have said it's a known failure point, and I could see if it were dying with the engine hot, but why the hard starting? And why did it run fine for hours and hours after my most recent tank-draining and fuel filter-replacing, and now start acting up again?

Tuna, fuel consumption seems about normal for a 17HP engine. It uses around a gallon per hour, maybe a bit more.

Seriously, I'm about to go shopping for a 1970's vintage vertical shaft engine.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I have checked spark when it's happily pumping fuel and not starting. Got Spark. I use the JD-recommended fuel filters, which are clear. None of the one's I've changed (it's on its 3rd now, in 2 years) has appeared "gunky". Although sometimes the filter does not appear to have fuel in it. Which is weird, as I said, I'll then pull the pump line off and the pump is still pumping. I wonder if air is getting trapped somewhere? Also, the fact that _starting fluid_ doesn't even make the engine wantt to start really throws me on the fuel angle. This particular engine has something called an "igniter" on the ignition, like a little ignition module. Some have said it's a known failure point, and I could see if it were dying with the engine hot, but why the hard starting? And why did it run fine for hours and hours after my most recent tank-draining and fuel filter-replacing, and now start acting up again? Tuna, fuel consumption seems about normal for a 17HP engine. It uses around a gallon per hour, maybe a bit more. Seriously, I'm about to go shopping for a 1970's vintage vertical shaft engine.

Next time you are cranking with no fire, try opening the choke and putting pliers on the fuel line - it might be too rich, maybe you have something leaking internally in the carb.

My engine, about the same HP I think, uses about 1/3 that amount. I have a two gallon tank I refill once a month+.

jstand wrote: Does it have a low oil pressure shut down? A marginal sender can cause problems starting and when hot. Start by bypassing all the safety switches to see if that improves the cold start and the hot shut down. If tha doesn't help I'd jumper out the key to see if the switch is part of the problem. When cranking does it sound like its to catch, but dies as soon as you let go of the key? Or not fire until you let go of the key? If you disconnect the battery while its running does it die?

The oil cutoff is a possibility. I need to find that sensor and bypass it. Then again, why would it be sparking still?

I've already bypassed most of the safety cutoff switches. I can get off the tractor while it's running, going backwards, with the blades engaged.

Haven't tried the battery thing yet. And I'm not sure that it would run sans battery. But its worth a shot.

JD, nothing unusual there.....

If you have fuel, and you have spark, the timing has probably jumped the shark.......or you have split a piston in two like we had happen with a kohler powered mtd years ago.

tuna55 wrote:

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I have checked spark when it's happily pumping fuel and not starting. Got Spark. I use the JD-recommended fuel filters, which are clear. None of the one's I've changed (it's on its 3rd now, in 2 years) has appeared "gunky". Although sometimes the filter does not appear to have fuel in it. Which is weird, as I said, I'll then pull the pump line off and the pump is still pumping. I wonder if air is getting trapped somewhere? Also, the fact that _starting fluid_ doesn't even make the engine wantt to start really throws me on the fuel angle. This particular engine has something called an "igniter" on the ignition, like a little ignition module. Some have said it's a known failure point, and I could see if it were dying with the engine hot, but why the hard starting? And why did it run fine for hours and hours after my most recent tank-draining and fuel filter-replacing, and now start acting up again? Tuna, fuel consumption seems about normal for a 17HP engine. It uses around a gallon per hour, maybe a bit more. Seriously, I'm about to go shopping for a 1970's vintage vertical shaft engine.

Next time you are cranking with no fire, try opening the choke and putting pliers on the fuel line - it might be too rich, maybe you have something leaking internally in the carb. My engine, about the same HP I think, uses about 1/3 that amount. I have a two gallon tank I refill once a month+.

You may be on to something...when starting, I found that removing the pump line, cranking the engine, and re-attaching will sometimes make it come to life. The symptoms sometimes make me think of flooding. But when I pull the plug, it's not sopping wet with gas.

I have a lot more lawn to cut than you do. I mow about 1.5 acres, with lots of trees and other annoying things. Takes me 2 hours to cut it all, more if it's long and I have to mow it twice. And your 155 is only a 15 HP, mine's 17. :-P

My 1995 Honda riding mower was designed to burn ethanol gas. A while back it got hard to start and run a little rough. I eventually changed the strainer and the fuel filter, even though both looked fine. It ran a lot better after that.

Hmmm, I revise my comment, it does sound like you have too much fuel if pulling the line off brought her to life. new/rebuilt carb time.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I have a lot more lawn to cut than you do. I mow about 1.5 acres, with lots of trees and other annoying things. Takes me 2 hours to cut it all, more if it's long and I have to mow it twice. And your 155 is only a 15 HP, mine's 17. :-P

You mow for two hours and it takes two gallons. I mow for 30 minutes and it takes less than 1/4 gallon. I'm still at less than 1/2 your consumption. methinks you may have a warped piece in the carb or something. Did you forget to put the jet back in? hehehe

it's possible the carb's messed/ gunked up. I was pretty meticulous rebuilding it, used a genuine JD rebuild kit, etc. sigh Probably worth going through again after I replace all the fuel lines and that doesn't work.

Right before I bought this tractor I sold about 4 or 5 other tractors and a pickup truck load of parts and crap I'd amassed over several years. I told myself, I was going to stop berkeleying around with lawnmowers, have a good reliable appliance tractor, and focus my hobby time and $$ on cars. Good grief.

In my experience, starting fluid is powerful in a diesel, and frequently non-reactive in a spark ignition engine. Don't read too much into it. Try carburetor cleaner instead if you want to squirt things into the throat. I've had far better results with carburetor cleaner than starting fluid.

There's something niggling around in the back of my mind with regards to the fuel tank on that machine. I can't remember what it is. It was subtle and took a while to discover or realise.

Many an owner grinds the tip off the bowl solenoid, or replaces it with a bolt due to flow restriction. The fuel pump can be gushing out a disconnected line, but if gasoline can't flow freely past that solenoid, the bowl gradually goes down when running, and the machine gradually runs out of steam while mowing.

One of the forums I read mentioned something about the fuel tank warping/ getting pressed on by the transmission, and blocking the fuel strainer in the tank. There was some TSB about shortening the intake line 1/4" in the tank to prevent this. Again, with the free flow of fuel from the pump whenever I've checked it, this doesn't seem like the problem. Also, the transmission has a good bit of clearance between itself and the tank.

I might see if I can replace the solenoid with a bolt and see if that solves the issue. What is the point of that thing, anyway?

The reason you may still get spark while cranking with a bad oil pressure sensor is that the system may have a bypass to allow spark while cranking before pressure has a chance to build.

Similar to the way automotive point ignition would bypass the resistor to the coil while the starter was engaged to ensure enough voltage to fire.