Just shoot yourself

First and foremost, my sincere wishes this piece of berkley rots in an especially awful corner of hell. I am so sorry we even have to discuss any of this in the first place.

That said, as a Canadian it's very difficult for me to process some of your trains of thought. Nobody is saying we are better or worse, it's just different here.

I am "anti gun" for sure, but I really think the "pro" gun guys are right. Everyone in America should carry. It is simply too late for America to go back to a time where you can "take all the guns away"

You live in a place where you apparently are still nervous about the British invading...

Your ownership per capita, plus the illegal amount of guns is absurd. You have lobbyist fighting tooth and nail to repeal or prevent anything perceived as keeping you away from your guns.

It's so ingrained in your culture, honestly where do you think the nutcases get the idea that this is the glorious Hollywood way out? Could it be because they are saturated from birth with imagery and rhetoric?

Will that make every law abiding American go nuts, of course not......but don't be so obtuse as to speculate what makes this happen to the less stable people of your society.

I'm sorry I trying to be as civil as I can, I know I will have made many of you angry, but I have a lot of anger in me about this unspeakable tragedy.

Again, my personal opinions aside I wish with all my being that this never happened more than I can say.

I still find it hard to believe that there were no signs what so ever that this guy was about to pull something like this. With the sheer scale of what was done it is hard to imagine that it was just some instantaneous snap even if the kid did have mental problems.

In reply to colaboy:

I really really don't want to see this country turn into a place where everyone has to carry a gun because everyone else is carrying a gun. That... no thanks.

I'm not a mental health worker of any sort so grain of salt with this, but I don't think this is a "Hollywood way out" at all, it's not like he's robbing a bank and shooting his way out. I think it's more a "I'll show them" and the true consequences are all lost behind a fog of mental instability. From the reports I've seen, the guy killed family members in other states earlier in the day.

I can't imagine that. Supposedly killed his dad in New Jersey then drove for what I assume would be hours to go to where his mother worked in the school. The mentality behind that is horrifying.

I wonder if we're back on track enough for the young Mr. Suddard to leave this thread going?

pres589 wrote: In reply to colaboy: I really really don't want to see this country turn into a place where everyone has to carry a gun because everyone else is carrying a gun. That... no thanks. I'm not a mental health worker of any sort so grain of salt with this, but I don't think this is a "Hollywood way out" at all, it's not like he's robbing a bank and shooting his way out. I think it's more a "I'll show them" and the true consequences are all lost behind a fog of mental instability. From the reports I've seen, the guy killed family members in other states earlier in the day. I can't imagine that. Supposedly killed his dad in New Jersey then drove for what I assume would be hours to go to where his mother worked in the school. The mentality behind that is horrifying. I wonder if we're back on track enough for the young Mr. Suddard to leave this thread going?

I shouldn't have generalized on that point, I, like everyone else feel helpless and frustrated that these things happen. Thank you for a civilized response.

In reply to colaboy:

Looking at some of your statements, I wonder if you turn a blind eye to some of the crazy stuff that happens in all parts of the world, including Canada? We have access to more guns so our crazy seems to be more gun related but the crazy is the same worldwide. America's has been the immigration destination of choice for a long time so we have a lot of imported crazy also. Is it just fashionable for every evil act to be seen as an opportunity for non-Americans to bash us?

I was just in the truck running some errands and someone came on saying they believe acts such as these are a direct result of a lack of morals and self responsibility. Everything is always someone elses fault, we let our children get raised by TV instead of spending time with them. I see this with my niece and nephew, their parents spend so little time with them and never discipline them that they are becoming holy terrors.

From a local Police Chief: Submitted without comment.

Quote: Chief’s babble…..on the school shooting.

I have been thinking about kindergarten students all day. Five and six year-old kids….with no cares and with eyes on Santa coming soon. I see kindergarteners every day at our elementary school; you can always spot them, because of their book bags. They are small, innocent and love the world…and they give the BEST high fives, ever. They high five with love and eagerness….unaware of this nasty world we live in and the fact that monsters really do exist, in the form of killers, like the one who showed up at a school in Connecticut today.

I have read many of the opinions posted on our page here and want to offer my own. When disasters like this happen, we as a society tend to go way off, one direction or another. Moving to either extreme is not the answer, in my very humble opinion. We should not ban guns. We should not arm teachers.

I am a gun enthusiast. I am an NRA member. I am not a right wing extremist. I have been around guns since birth and have always had one in the house. For those who want to make guns illegal, I have a comparison….cocaine and heroin are illegal. Making something illegal just means that those with a moral compass will not possess or use it….criminals still will. I do not know about the rest of you, but when I am backed into a corner, and have to protect my family from harm or death, I do not want to take a baseball bat to a gunfight.

On the other hand….my gun enthusiast friends need to simmer a little. The talk of “criminal" or "gun free zones” is also a little dramatic. The world is not collapsing. There are not bands of roving killers who prey on people because they enter s store or buildings where guns are not permitted. Teachers should not be armed in a school. I do not want teachers having the responsibility of being in a shoot/don’t shoot scenario or worrying about proper backdrop. We constantly work those scenarios and they are unnerving at best. Mrs. Crabtree should not have to worry about breaking out her Glock while also trying to give directions to 25 screaming 1st graders. Additionally, a small fraction of the gun people who “talk the talk” about what they would do in a life or death situation would most certainly not “walk the walk”. It’s very easy to say or type “If I was there with my concealed carry, I would have killed him”….it’s not so easy to put that play in motion. Many would shoot themselves in the leg, and then urinate. Again…that’s a fraction of the gun people, so don’t come unglued.

So….we had another mass killing at a school. Innocent children….angels…. gone. I have said it for years, to anyone who will listen. It is time to direct tax money to every school in this nation. It is time to make our schools secure. The time for talk is done….it was done YEARS ago. There should be NO one in the building during the school day except for staff, students and police. Dedicate a secure room/vestibule near the entrance for conferences or meetings with parents. Set a perimeter of cameras and locked doors, so these kids can be safe….the teachers can be safe….and the building can function as a school and not a murder scene.

Fed and State elected people, nationwide, listen up…..You have taxed beyond belief. You have attempted education reform numerous times and failed. You are failing children and teachers in a way now that is reprehensible….and they are dying. Stop lining the pockets of your lobbyists and start securing these schools. If you can fund the study of methane gas released by cattle, you can damn sure make these schools safer. And yes, it is on you. You have taxed at a federal and state level so much; you have caused the locals giant issues with passing ANY taxes.

These children leave the safety of home every day….it is our job to return them home, safely. Let’s start making schools a “safe zone”….and not just show up for photo ops when kids die. Lead, or get out of the way.

Thoughts and prayers to all involved…..I just cannot grasp your agony……Chief Oliver

I couldn't read past "Santa." I can't help but think that there is just pure evil in this world.

Y'all are doing well. Good job.

In reply to wbjones:

I don't think there is a single thing that chief said that I do not agree with. He hit the nail on the head and it is time we start making viable plans so that our children are safe when they are at school. Arming teachers in this country will not work as most are against the very idea of guns as is and they are not trained. The reason the concept work in Israel is they are properly trained and have the mentality a gun is a tool they can use to save their students.

Actually securing buildings and limiting who comes and goes is going to be a huge step. Having dedicated security is another step that should be taken in many areas. Class room doors should have secure doors that the teacher can lock and lock down procedures should be established and practiced. Kids should be taught what to do and where to go if something does happen, we have drills for fires, earthquakes and even had them for nukes. People need to be prepared not scared. Give them a plan and a chance to survive the situation and it will help eliminate some of the panic.

Now that I have been barraged with this story for a while a couple things about the coverage and my peer's reactions really bugs me.

1) What relevance does "and so close to Christmas" have? WTH? Would mass murder have been more bearable in July?

2) Why does the fact that the majority of the victims were children make this worse than if all 27 were old enough to vote? Is murdering 27 people not appalling enough that we need to point out how "innocent" they were? I'm sure the families of the other 7 are no less saddened or angry.

3) Gun control lobby: This is not the fight you want to hang your hat on. If he bought them at Walmart you might have a case to be made but he didn't. He stole them. That is what criminals do. They break laws.

4) Gun lobby: Shut the berkeley up too. 27 people died yesterday in a hail of gunfire. Now is not a good time to have a rally.

I think that about covers it. My condolences go out to all the families and friends in CT who lost a loved one.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

Here is my take

1) the Christmas thing is because it is suppose to be a time of peace and harmony amoung all men. Hell wars have even had cease fires for Christmas.

2) the reason it is so terrible that it was children is because they are so innocent and have not even gotten a chance to experience life really. It would be terrible no matter what but children being hurt will always pull at peoples heart strings it is part of the natural protective instincts we all have

3 & 4) I couldn't agree more.

^^This, 1000 times, this.

Can I venture to add a #5? Stop putting these poor kids in front of television cameras. They don't need to relive yesterday in front your microphone, bright lights, cheap stage makeup and pretend sympathy. It was horrible, we all get that by now. Shamelessly dragging these kids back and forth through yesterday for your ratings and your claim to have "something new" to report is making me ill. I've stopped watching because I can't stand it anymore, but I know its still going on.

Edit: Was actually directed at GPS's post.

Time for a lock since for god knows why, we're talking about gun shows. As I see it, the problem is a very small percentage of the population have serious mental issues, but haven't presented an obvious or strong enough threat to themselves or others to get themselves incarcerated. So how do you identify risks and guard against them without berkeleying up the rights of a bunch of people that so far haven't done anything wrong, but might some day?

oldtin wrote: Time for a lock since for god knows why, we're talking about gun shows. As I see it, the problem is a very small percentage of the population have serious mental issues, but haven't presented an obvious or strong enough threat to themselves or others to get themselves incarcerated. So how do you identify risks and guard against them without berkeleying up the rights of a bunch of people that so far haven't done anything wrong, but might some day?

That is the real question here, isn't it?

"He may have had a personality disorder" has appeared more than once in coverage - CApt. Obvious himself could have figured out the guy wasn't right in the head any time after 9AM on the 14th... but how do you know which crazy people to keep in a cage before they come unglued? How do you know which ones only get the plastic silverware?

Hey if we're arguing gun control then how about this, the "gun show loophole" better named the "private sale loophole" basically allows weapons to fall off the map and be as easy to trade as a used paperback novel once sold by a private seller. At least in some states (and certainly in other countries, including mine) you have to register the new owner of a car with the DMV when you sell it, would asking the same for guns be too much?

When US telcos start handling cell phone theft the way the EU ones do (a process that's already started), it will be easier to trade a used gun than a used cell phone in the US.

Guys shut the hell up about gun control crap on both sides. You are going to get this thread locked because you all don't know when to keep your traps shut. This thread is about this incident and these kids not about pushing agendas on either side of the fence.

rebelgtp wrote: Guys shut the hell up about gun control crap on both sides. You are going to get this thread locked because you all don't know when to keep your traps shut. This thread is about this incident and these kids not about pushing agendas on either side of the fence.

+1

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Now that I have been barraged with this story for a while a couple things about the coverage and my peer's reactions really bugs me. 1) What relevance does "and so close to Christmas" have? WTH? Would mass murder have been more bearable in July? 2) Why does the fact that the majority of the victims were children make this worse than if all 27 were old enough to vote? Is murdering 27 people not appalling enough that we need to point out how "innocent" they were? I'm sure the families of the other 7 are no less saddened or angry. 3) Gun control lobby: This is not the fight you want to hang your hat on. If he bought them at Walmart you might have a case to be made but he didn't. He stole them. That is what criminals do. They break laws. 4) Gun lobby: Shut the berkeley up too. 27 people died yesterday in a hail of gunfire. Now is not a good time to have a rally. I think that about covers it. My condolences go out to all the families and friends in CT who lost a loved one.

1) Personally? Because a berkeleying 7 year old should be thinking about what he's getting for Christmas right now, not about a horrifying bloody scene that's going to scar him for the rest of his life.

2) What makes it worse is that a little kid is a little kid. If a 90 year old is shot in the face, that's not quite as sad as a 7 year old that will never get to experience life as a grown up. Also, it's just berkeleying depraved. Evil. berkeleying evil.

3&4) Yup.

I was thinking about the mental illness angle on this. How DO you figure out which people are mentally unstable enough to come unhinged and go on a rampage? I hate to say this, but I don't think you CAN. Here is my reasoning:

Statistics. This is a nation of 300 million people. In the last year, I believe you have had, what 5 people go insane and go shoot people up? That is 0.00000002% of the population. How the HELL do you catch that? It is such a huge statistical outlier, that even IF a program is 99.99999% effective, you still would not catch those people. And I think that, no matter what weapons they have at their disposal, they will still kill. Humans have proven to be extremely adept at killing each other.

I don't know what the solution is. I am not sure that there is one. Locking down schools would be a good idea, but we will never be totally free of this kind of violence. Humans are too varied, and there are just too damned many of us to catch this infinitesimally small portion of the population. As individuals, we need to be as vigilant as possible to protect ourselves and the ones we love. It is the best that we can do.

mapper wrote: In reply to colaboy: Looking at some of your statements, I wonder if you turn a blind eye to some of the crazy stuff that happens in all parts of the world, including Canada? We have access to more guns so our crazy seems to be more gun related but the crazy is the same worldwide. America's has been the immigration destination of choice for a long time so we have a lot of imported crazy also. Is it just fashionable for every evil act to be seen as an opportunity for non-Americans to bash us?

I don't deny that if you make 7 billion of anything you are going to get some defective ones regardless of geography. You are right, we've had some pretty awful things here too.

But watch the news, barring countries that are at war, do you really see anything that remotely compares to the US? You can't say Somalia is worse, it's oranges and apples.

I have no interest in bashing anyone, I've met many great people from the US.

Also I think what was posted about the sheriff's thoughts on making schools more secure was spot on. Better idea than anything I had in mind.

I don't think the jest of my point is about gun control one way or the other, it's about having an open honest discussion about changing the way people think about personal safety without anybody getting their shorts in a knot.

I don't care who you are, you can't possibly not want to get behind protecting the most vulnerable.

In reply to colaboy:

true... But in this country the there are many opinions about how to protect them. Many differ greatly.

Geekspeed pretty much repeated what I've been thinking.

The hardest thing to accept is that there really is no way to prevent tragedies like this.

My heart goes out to the families that lost loved ones and the children who lived through this.

Banks, businesses, museums etc. lock up and protect their valuables w/ trained, armed guards and hi-tech security systems. Hate to say it but evidently children must not be as valuable.

Forget the new multi-million dollar school swimming pool or football stadium, put the dinero into added security.

Geekspeed wrote: I was thinking about the mental illness angle on this. How DO you figure out which people are mentally unstable enough to come unhinged and go on a rampage? I hate to say this, but I don't think you CAN. Here is my reasoning: Statistics. This is a nation of 300 million people. In the last year, I believe you have had, what 5 people go insane and go shoot people up? That is 0.00000002% of the population. How the HELL do you catch that? It is such a huge statistical outlier, that even IF a program is 99.99999% effective, you still would not catch those people. And I think that, no matter what weapons they have at their disposal, they will still kill. Humans have proven to be extremely adept at killing each other. I don't know what the solution is. I am not sure that there is one. Locking down schools would be a good idea, but we will never be totally free of this kind of violence. Humans are too varied, and there are just too damned many of us to catch this infinitesimally small portion of the population. As individuals, we need to be as vigilant as possible to protect ourselves and the ones we love. It is the best that we can do.

+1

I think for the immediate, there should be a police officer at every school as well as a security system in place that prevents any visitor from entering the school without that officer placing an eye on him/her.