Keep the tip?

That being said about once a year someone gets a horrible tip from me out of complete disregard for service, but i never leave just nothing... That just says you are a cheapass.

Looks like the solution is to move to Asia if you don't want to tip.

My dad went to Dunkin Donuts daily and tossed his change in the jar for his counter girlfriend.

One day she pulls him to the side and tells him the owner is keeping 1/2 the tips for himself.

Dad aggro and gets a Keurig machine and sleeps in. No more Dunkin Donuts.

Lots of "I've never had to wait/bus tables or deliver pizzas, but I know lots about it" and "The guy that owns the restaurants must get free money and cars and do nothing all day, because the restaurant business is really easy and has huge profit margins" from people who've never seen an 80 hour work week. Awesome.

poopshovel wrote: Lots of "I've never had to wait/bus tables or deliver pizzas, but I know lots about it" and "The guy that owns the restaurants must get free money and cars and do nothing all day, because the restaurant business is really easy and has huge profit margins" from people who've never seen an 80 hour work week. Awesome.

Preach on brother.

poopshovel wrote: Lots of "I've never had to wait/bus tables or deliver pizzas, but I know lots about it" and "The guy that owns the restaurants must get free money and cars and do nothing all day, because the restaurant business is really easy and has huge profit margins" from people who've never seen an 80 hour work week. Awesome.

I'm awaiting the response, "Should have chosen another industry!"

i get tips sometimes. it's pretty sweet. lots of old ladies like to give me a $10 or $20 for lunch when i'm working at their house, even if it's just for an hour or two . the best tip i got was on a deck that took a week, the guy whipped out $200 for me at the end of the job after he paid his balance to the company. i'd say a few times a year someone tosses me a $50 after the job.

for waiters/resses i stick around 20% unless they're awesome or they blow. i did leave a 1 penny tip(insult) once at a bob evans on christmas eve. the girl mailed it in - took 10 minutes to come over, never filled drink, never came back to do anything but drop plate on table with bill. the place was empty and she was yakking it up with the other staff.

my wife used to work at outback as a hostess. she said at the end of the night every waiter/ress had to give their tips to the management and they were divided amongst the whole staff including bus boys, hosts, and manager. that just seems lame. so you could be a jerkoff to the customer and suzie nextserver could be the happiest most eager to please girl in the world, and you get paid based on her effort, and she gets dragged down based on your lack thereof.

I've left no tip twice. First was a waitress who just royally sucked at her job. Poor service, no refills, had to wait for the bill, etc. This was in Miami where EVERYWHERE adds an automatic 18%. I actually had the manager remove the automatic tip she sucked so bad.

Other time was when I was charged for a substitution that the dude told me was free when I ordered. "Yeah, I was wrong - no substitutions, so I charged you." "I would not have substituted except you told me it was free." "Sorry - it isn't." "Fix this or it's coming out of your tip." "Can't fix it." "OK...."

Other than that, I'm typically 15-20%, and have been known to go way above that for exceptional service. I think my best percentage went to this 80 year old dude at Steak-n-Shake. Dude was so on the ball it was amazing - better than every $100 plate place I've ever been to. I left him a $20 on a $6 meal.

Been in the restaurant business forever. Just want to add a few facts.

Pizza delivery fee does not go to the driver. Drivers are compensated for car use based on a formula that is rarely updated. The ones I am familiar with have not gone up since gas was $2.10.

Restaurant servers and delivery drivers usually make less than minimum wage and tips are counted to make up the difference.

Taxes WILL be paid by the server as if they made 8% tip. Yes, I have seen paychecks for negative amounts!!

Lots of restaurants use tip allocation. This if one server fails to report tips, the shortage is divided among all servers and each has to pay taxes on that portion.

Evil system designed to benefit, first the tax collecting entity even to the point of tax fraud, second, the business owner in that wages paid are not seen as a menu price, third, customers who are free to NOT tip that still does not break the cash flow to the taxing bodies and owners....then last are the "tip credit" employees that required to endure wages below minimum, paying taxes on income even if said taxes have no basis in reality, while working at a job that is just flat HARD!

That being said, I deliver pizza on weekends. I do alright because I have no bills! Gets me a little spending money.

Tip or don't tip...that is your choice. Just don't rationalize it as a stand against the status quo. Taxing entity and business owners will get their share!

Bruce

egnorant wrote: Been in the restaurant business forever. Just want to add a few facts. Pizza delivery fee does not go to the driver. Drivers are compensated for car use based on a formula that is rarely updated. The ones I am familiar with have not gone up since gas was $2.10.

My compensation has actually gone down slightly since we went to the new system on the first of the year. We used to make $1.27 per delivery out of a $2 delivery fee. Now with 5% of the total order it is usually less. It is supposed to encourage us to sell more but we (the drivers) have little control over selling most of the time and can't choose which deliveries we take.

Ok, so my buddy called me back this morning after running the numbers on his sales for last week.

He said to pay his wait staff $14/hr, which is less than the good ones make with tips, and keep all the same pay levels/profitability for the restaurant, his food prices would have to increase 52% to account for the increase in hourly wage.

So your $10 meal becomes just over $15, because you were unwilling to pay $12. And you take away the incentive for wait staff, and take away the ability to reward exceptional service.

So that's a real, no BS number.......not our hypothetical, conjecture.

egnorant wrote: Restaurant servers and delivery drivers usually make less than minimum wage and tips are counted to make up the difference.

Honest question: How do restaurants get around minimum wage laws? On the surface, it would seem to be in violation of those laws.

In reply to dyintorace:

I believe minimum wage laws have provisions written into them for tips and commission. I know at one time there were pretty highly paid sales folks whose base pay was less than minimum wage. It, uh, wasn’t an issue for them. I don’t know if that’s still the case or not.

In reply to z31maniac:

I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't know a lot about it. But my simple understanding of the subject won't let me see where the $3 difference is coming from? If we get rid of tips and I pay $15 instead of $12, where did the extra $3 go?

I made less than minimum wage at my last commission-based job. Didn't stop me from making $80k in 10 months, though.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I made less than minimum wage at my last commission-based job. Didn't stop me from making $80k in 10 months, though.

Yeah, that sounds like the folks I've worked with. I always thought it was funny that people who made that kind of jack had such a low base. It kind of seemed like "why bother"?

z31maniac wrote: And you take away the incentive for wait staff, and take away the ability to reward exceptional service.

And herein lies the problem (not directed at you in particular z31)

Most wait staff I encounter these days don't look upon it as an incentive to begin with anymore. They feel entitled to 20% and if you, the customer, aren't paying it then you are the bad guy.

I know that in the current environment it has become accepted that tips are a part of their pay and therefore they have some degree of right to feel entitled to it. But it's not their pay and that's where the system has gone wrong, it is suppose to be an inducement toward quality service.

I often travel to Denmark where tipping is not the norm. I go to the same places enough that most of them know the "crazy American" by now and know that I tip. The level of service I receive is above and beyond because they feel incentivized by that tip. That feeling of working for a tip is sadly gone with a majority of American servers.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: In reply to z31maniac: I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't know a lot about it. But my simple understanding of the subject won't let me see where the $3 difference is coming from? If we get rid of tips and I pay $15 instead of $12, where did the extra $3 go?

Because now you are paying ALL of the wait staff a much higher wage, instead of tipping just one. And you've increased their salary paid by the restaurant (and the associated payroll taxes that go with the higher pay) by 7X.

Like I said, he admitted yesterday was an exageration, but ran the real numbers for his restaurant this morning.

z31maniac wrote: Ok, so my buddy called me back this morning after running the numbers on his sales for last week. He said to pay his wait staff $14/hr, which is less than the good ones make with tips, and keep all the same pay levels/profitability for the restaurant, his food prices would have to increase 52% to account for the increase in hourly wage. So your $10 meal becomes just over $15, because you were unwilling to pay $12. And you take away the incentive for wait staff, and take away the ability to reward exceptional service. So that's a real, no BS number.......not our hypothetical, conjecture.

If a $10 meal become $15 to get the server/staff an extra $2, then the manager/owner are getting the other $3.

[I] edit, OK, part of that $3 goes to the incresed PR taxes, but either he's miscalculating what the support staff get out of that $2 tip, or he's including a profit to the top [/I]

I have no problem with the tip system the way it is. I probably average 20% at restaurants, $1/round at bars for beer. SWMBO gives the returned coins and $1 to the person in the window at the coffee drive up and that drives me nuts...

I adjust my 20% to meet the level of service. If management has policies in place that make that unfair, sorry but that's not my fault.

I said right there in what you quoted, that was to maintain the same level of profitability.

Seeing more wrongs posted.

One was posted that the commission for pizza delivery comes out of the delivery fee....it does not! Once upon a time delivery was free! $10 pizza carried to the house and driver got $1.00 (numbers are an example). Driver brought $11.00 back and $9.00 went in the register. Now $10.00 pizza...$2.00 delivery fee...$1.00 commission. Register gets $11.00 and the driver gets $1.00.

Next is the "I know that in the current environment it has become accepted that tips are a part of their pay and therefore they have some degree of right to feel entitled to it. But it's not their pay and that's where the system has gone wrong, it is suppose to be an inducement toward quality service. "

It is FACT that tips are part of their pay and servers MUST pay taxes on this difference between $2.13 per hour and minimum wage even if tips do not make up the difference. The store actually must pay if there is a difference, but can get around it by using the taxing formula to show that the server should have been reporting an adequate amount.

Bruce

Commission is not tipping. It is part of the sales deal and cannot be removed by ANYONE.

egnorant wrote: It is FACT that tips are part of their pay...

Yeah, I suppose it is. And, look, I tip. Almost always 15% and sometimes more. So I'm not holding out or being cheap... that siad.

Just because it's a fact doesn't change anything. Elsewhere in this thread the argument is being made that service wouldn't be as good if tips went away. Okay, then it is something you give someone for doing a good job. But wait a minute, it's part of their pay. It can't be both ways. If it's part of their pay and I should feel obligated to pay it, then it already isn't an insentive to do a good job. And, you know, if it's part of their pay and I should have to pay it, it should just be put on the check. And if it's just put on the check, why not just roll it into the cost of the meal?

What we have right now is this "optional" bit that you are supposed to feel compelled to pay. Uh, that somehow feels like my wife asking where I want to go on vacation. It sounds like I have a choice, but really....

egnorant wrote: Commission is not tipping. It is part of the sales deal and cannot be removed by ANYONE.

Nobody said it was. Just indicated that both are accomodated in minimum wage legislation.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Just because it's a fact doesn't change anything. Elsewhere in this thread the argument is being made that service wouldn't be as good if tips went away. Okay, then it is something you give someone for doing a good job. But wait a minute, it's part of their pay. It can't be both ways. If it's part of their pay and I should feel obligated to pay it, then it already *isn't* an insentive to do a good job. And, you know, if it's part of their pay and I should have to pay it, it should just be put on the check. And if it's just put on the check, why not just roll it into the cost of the meal?

Because if they do a sub-standard job, you have no way of indicating your displeasure. If a server does a frustratingly poor job, I can indicate my displeasure by adjusting the tip I leave. Do an average job? Average tip. Go above the call of duty? Higher tip. Waste my time and charge me for things I shouldn't have been? I'll take the tip down.

It's not just about incentive to do a good job. It's about incentive to do a decent job, and penalty if you don't.

I'm tired of bartenders in Berlin ignoring me because they'd rather socialize with the cute girl/guy at the other end of the bar. Why shouldn't they? They'll earn just as much money getting a phone number as getting my drink.

waited tables at a "theme" restaurant many yrs before they became "the thing" ... part of our training ( I was opening day staff) gave us the (supposed) definition of tip... as in "To insure Prompt service" seems that in medieval England you would tip as you sat down and would receive service commiserate with the size of the tip

don't know the truth about this ... but that's what they taught us

z31maniac wrote:

fast_eddie_72 wrote: In reply to z31maniac: I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't know a lot about it. But my simple understanding of the subject won't let me see where the $3 difference is coming from? If we get rid of tips and I pay $15 instead of $12, where did the extra $3 go?

Because now you are paying ALL of the wait staff a much higher wage, instead of tipping just one. And you've increased their salary paid by the restaurant (and the associated payroll taxes that go with the higher pay) by 7X. Like I said, he admitted yesterday was an exageration, but ran the real numbers for his restaurant this morning.

These numbers are incorrect! Payroll taxes ARE paid on tips. Government requires that a minimum of 8% of a servers sales be taxed as tips. So if a server has $150 in sales for an hour, server will be taxed as if the tips were $12.00 minimum (more if more tips are reported). Plus their $2.13 per hour that makes a taxed wage of $14.13.

With a 10% price increase, 2% would raise wages to minimum wage and offer server 5% of sales (incentive to increase sales and service maybe??) while the store could pull an extra 3% for more profit. Change the percentages around as you see fit and run the numbers.

I'm sure some bean counter somewhere has a chart that proves that the current system is best for maximum profit. But it also promotes the highest turnover rate anywhere, no incentive to do a better job and the customer feels pressured to tip because they know the system is screwing the server!

35 year in the restaurant industry can teach you a great deal. Now I just do pizza delivery because it suits my needs. I do still study the business and often train newb managers. Last week had a few sessions of inventory and ordering controls.

I should write a book...

Bruce

Disagree if you like, doesn't bother me. He ran the numbers for his store, what reason would he have to lie to an internet discussion?

He is the guy they send to turn around underperforming stores and open new ones and train the managers.

But I'm sure he doesn't know how to figure out his costs.