Landscaping - how to deal with railroad ties?

In reply to Turboeric:

That's not right either.

Creosote is a pressure treatment. Incising timbers is a railroad specification.

Railway Tie Association FAQ's

RTA said: When incising is specified, the material shall be incised prior to yarding and seasoning to reduce checking, or if dry prior to treatment on four sides, with incisor not more than 7/32 inch thick to the pattern shown in the figure below. In pieces 5 inches or more thick, the incisions shall be 3/4 inch deep. In pieces less than 5 inches but more than 2 inches thick, they shall be 3/4 inch deep in the edges but only 1/2 inch deep in the sides. Incising of pieces 2 inches and thinner is not recommended. Patterns slightly different are not objectionable if machines constructed prior to 1940 are used.

Creosote is a pressure treatment, but not the only one. The timbers in the photo look like CCA (chromated copper arsenate)treated to me. I've built a bunch of railroad tie retaining walls in the 80s, and they didn't look like that. Even very old, weathered ties retain the brownish, tarry hue of creosote, which these entirely lack.

No we won't.

SVreX wrote: stuff

Sorry, I wasn't trying to get your dander up or create a fight. I also kept losing track of the difference between landscaping and construction (especially after the OP posted pictures of the wall and house). You're right, one can certainly build a landscaping wall with railroad ties.

The question you first asked, and that I wasn't very clear in answering, was why did I doubt they were railroad ties.

I basically doubted it because this was new construction of both the house and the retaining wall. Since inspectors and bankers and all sorts of other people and documents are involved, I would expect new materials to be used, and materials that wouldn't cause delays or raised eyebrows. Yes, it could have been done with railroad ties, even used ones. And I would equally expect someone or someones would baulk, creating delays and headaches for the builder. Something completely avoided with conventional new wood timbers for a retaining wall. That is basically my reason for doubting it was done with railroad ties, especially old ones.

In reply to foxtrapper:

I completely agree. (Assuming the house and wall were built together by the same contractor. If a contractor did the house, and a homeowner later did the landscaping, then it would not have raised eyebrows).

No dander here. I am not the least bit perturbed.

I deal with regulations every day. Construction is a ridiculously over-regulated industry (because they CAN- think of the children!, and the tax revenue base). Rules were much more lenient when I was in the chemical industry.

Here what I've noticed. People are VERY black and white in their understanding of rules in general. They like to take a small bit of understanding, then universally apply it.

However, ALL laws, rules, and guidelines are nuanced and full of grey areas. They just don't mean what people think they mean. Even code enforcement officials think they say something that they usually do not. Imaginary laws get enforced all the time based on someone's understanding, even when the law does not say so.

And laws are not applied evenly. There are things you can do which are fine, but they are illegal if I do them (because I am licensed). There are also things I can do as a homeowner which I can not do as a contractor.

So, we say stuff like "RR ties are banned", or "lead paint is illegal", or "asbestos must be removed", or "DDT is no longer manufactured" because we think they are true, and then everyone else jumps on the band wagon and spreads the rumors. (None of these statements are true).

Mr Darwin would like to make his wood E36 M3 look better. I can't help him with that, because every product I have seen used is worthless, and some of the techniques I might use myself in my own yard I can't recommend to others (because of my license).

But I also don't think he (or other random readers) should get scared about some "illegal banned product in my yard OMG", when that's just not true.

So folks, again I apologize for the thread jack.

BTW, it's not that I like rules. I don't. But I am pretty good with them.

I generally hate rules. I find them almost universally to be efforts by one person to control another, just to make themselves feel important. I don't mind challenging them at all- I can frequently beat them at their own game, with their own rules (I've gotten more than one building inspector fired).

I've been called a legalist more than once on this site. I ignore those comments- its always someone who doesn't know me very well (and makes assumptions about me).

But that's one reason I like the $20XX Challenge (and often respond to questions about rules). It's a game I can play, and am good at.

Datsun1500 wrote: OK, let's try again. ProDarwin has some wood E36 M3 in his yard. It looks like ass. Any ideas on how to make it look better? Some of you berkeleyers will argue about anything

Olympic Water Guard. A tinted sealer for wood that I use on my fence. You can get it in different tints. I use the Honey Gold which is the same color as the wood was originally. Put it on with a garden sprayer. Usually last 3-4 years before the wife thinks I need to do it again.

Don't get Thompson's WaterSeal. Since the changes to water-based stuff it is a PITA to apply and doesn't last more than a year.

So, I finally pressure washed these the other day. Got all the mold/crap off them and they are a nice, fairly even color.

While I was out pressure washing, my somewhat hillbilly neighbor stopped by and said "You're knocking the creosote off, brush those with used motor oil when you're done."

I'm very hesitant to do that as it basically seems like the equivalent of dumping my used oil on the ground, but it also sounds like most treatments one would use on these things are worthless. So, just leave them alone? Is anything I do really going to make a difference in how long the wall lasts or how nice it looks? Or should I just let it rot and hope I've moved out of here before it needs replacement?

Go to a commercial paint supply like Sherwin Williams and buy the good stuff.

Hal wrote: Olympic Water Guard. A tinted sealer for wood that I use on my fence. You can get it in different tints. I use the Honey Gold which is the same color as the wood was originally. Put it on with a garden sprayer. Usually last 3-4 years before the wife thinks I need to do it again.

The fence is 20 years old and has been pressure washed and treated with Olympic Water Guard every 3-4 years(pic was taken this spring just after a redo). The shed is 30 years old and get a new coat of Olympic Stain every 5 years.

Edit: Just make sure you get the oil-based stuff, not the water-based.

In reply to ProDarwin:

I use a "oil based wood preservative" method like your neighbour was talking about on my fenceposts.

Think of the trees you're saving by not having to replace the ties.

When you eventually do have to replace them, you can get lots of free heat when they go in your fireplace.

They look like really worn in landscape lumber 4x4/6x6 whatever. I'd recommend some sort of water sealer/pressure treater/stain and call it a day.