In reply to 11GTCS :
IMHO, the engine tech that has changed since that ship was built is a real game changer. The ship I'm on right now has a very similar beam and length and holds quite a few more passengers in far bigger cabins, let alone a ton of balconies. The steam generators and smoke stacks take a lot more space than modern combustion engines paired with electric drive motors.
Great looking ship, though.
alfadriver said:In reply to 02Pilot :
Besides, Cunard is an incredibly expensive cruise line. You sail it to pretend to be rich.
I will assume you were not intending this to be a personally-directed slight, but if you were, we can go that route.
As far as costs, I have not found it to be out of line with the quality of service and accommodation, nor when looking at objective numbers compared with hotels and/or airfare. As to clothing, while it is true that there is the option of semi-formal and formal dress, it is not mandatory, and is only in effect after 6pm in any case.
alfadriver said:Besides, Cunard is an incredibly expensive cruise line. You sail it to pretend to be rich. And they make you wear nice clothing. The cruise I am on right now does not care I didn't bring a suit.
An ocean liner is not a cruise ship. An ocean liner is transportation -- you ride one when you want to go somewhere, whereas a cruise ship is the destination itself. The design of the ships is much different, a liner is typically 5-10 knots faster than a cruise ship and is built to handle much rougher seas.
And yes, in the modern world if you "want to go somewhere" you usually take a plane, not a liner. This is why ocean liners are almost extinct.
I've been across the Atlantic in a liner twice, once on the SS France and once on the QE2. I was age 2 and 5, so I don't remember anything about the SS France, and have only a couple of "image" memories from the QE2, alas.
So, what color is 1000 degree Fahrenheit water/steam anyway, dull red?
VolvoHeretic said:So, what color is 1000 degree Fahrenheit water/steam anyway, dull red?
You cant really see it. You check for leaks with a broom handle, when you find the leak it cuts the broom handle off
In reply to 02Pilot :
Nothing personal, but to us Cunard has always been too expensive, and the value equation does not add up. And it's not always been that way- 15 years ago we took formal night very seriously- including renting a tux for the formality. The appeal of that really reduced over time so much that I don't even carry a jacket anymore. As for the dress code, last I have heard Cunard does enforce them to dine. I know Royal does not- and it's still a big bone of contention for a lot of the cruise community.
Sorry if that came across badly, but if we are going to do a trans Atlantic- either the ports are going to be spectacular or the ship is. If that makes sense.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:Here she is in better days:
^That looks like an advertisement for theoretical hull speed.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
That's 1000 psi steam, the saturated steam temperature would be 546 F however the final steam temperature would be determined by the superheater section of the boiler. Marine propulsion boilers take steam off the main steam drum (saturated steam since it is in contact with the water in the drum below the steam) and then pass it through the fireside of the boiler again to add more energy. The boilers in most WW2 and post WW2 naval vessels have separate superheater burners, the boilers in the United States are patterned after Iowa class boilers and have them, the steam powered commercial ships I was on did not have separate superheater burners. There wasn't any mention of the superheated steam temperature in the video, I'll guess it's in the region of 1,200F.
Some temperature and pressure relationships from some I was familiar with:
USNS Barrett class (1952) 12,000 shp, 600 psi steam pressure, 750 F steam temperature with superheat.
Lancer class container ship (1968) 28,000 shp, 750 psi steam pressure, 950 F steam temperature with superheat.
As TRoglodyte mentions a large superheated steam leak is invisible as it's so hot it doesn't condense to vapor quickly. I've heard of the broom handle method too and am glad I never had to try it to see if it works.
Edit for a picture of a diagram of a boiler similar to those on the United States from one of my old textbooks:
In reply to 11GTCS :
Thanks guys, I took a tour of a 216 MW Lignite coal electrical power station 50 years ago during a Geology field trip and always wondered what color super heated steam was while standing next to the seemingly tiny steam generator turbine not much bigger than a Ford van while also wondering what it would be like if it blew up 2 feet away from me. 
alfadriver said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Besides Cunard, all cruise lines do trans Atlantic trips. I'm on one right now that included stops in Iceland and Greenland.
Pretty sure my in-laws are on the boat with you right now
In reply to OHSCrifle :
If they are in charlottown PEI today, they are.
I pitched the idea of taking a liner across the Atlantic as we go to Europe for her Significant Birthday in a few years. There's even a 2026 voyage of the QM2 that's perfectly timed. She's been on one cruise, an Alaska cruise with my extended family for my parents 50th anniversary - yes, my father was behind it. The thing she remembers about the ship is sitting on deck and just watching the wake while relaxing. 7 days of that across the Atlantic sounds perfect to her. We don't need go-karts or rock climbing or theme discos. If we get to dress up a bit to eat instead of standing in a buffet line with people wearing swimsuits, that's okay.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Sounds nice. Have a great time.
alfadriver said:In reply to 02Pilot :
Nothing personal, but to us Cunard has always been too expensive, and the value equation does not add up. And it's not always been that way- 15 years ago we took formal night very seriously- including renting a tux for the formality. The appeal of that really reduced over time so much that I don't even carry a jacket anymore. As for the dress code, last I have heard Cunard does enforce them to dine. I know Royal does not- and it's still a big bone of contention for a lot of the cruise community.
Sorry if that came across badly, but if we are going to do a trans Atlantic- either the ports are going to be spectacular or the ship is. If that makes sense.
I get it, everyone has their own priorities. I'm not opposed to focusing on destinations, but for me the ship makes or breaks it. I've done several trips on QM2, and two other cruises (one on Princess more than a decade ago, and one on Paquet way back when shipboard activities included handing 16-year old me a 12-gauge to shoot clays off the fantail) - I do not, however, consider myself part of the cruise community in any way, so I have no idea regarding the broader perception of Cunard's service. Dressing for the main dining room is still required after 6pm, but black tie is only going to be needed for two or three nights on a Transatlantic crossing; otherwise, a jacket will suffice. Other areas are open to those who opt not to dress for dinner, as well as free 24-hour room service (albeit a fairly limited menu). It's certainly a more formal experience than most, but I don't find it remotely oppressive or onerous; on the contrary, it's nice to travel in a way that still affords some sense of occasion.
Keith, let me know if you have any questions about QM2. You helped me out a bunch with my trips out west - I'd be happy to return the favor if I can.
Wikipedia.org: List of ocean liners
It appears that the average lifespan of an ocean liner that didn't catch fire, hit rocks, or get torpedoed in a world war was only 30 years.
I don't ever need to go on a ship cruise after all of those years of watching Love Boat and getting my fill and Mrs. Heretic will never set foot on one after all of the ship disaster movies she has watched. Plus, living about as far as you can get from any ocean, we kind of have a water phobia.
35 mph is fast on the water, 45,000 tons going that fast mind boggling.
In reply to TRoglodyte :
I'm pretty sure they don't go that fast anymore. QM2 does it in 7 days, and the trip we are on has 8 days at sea and a much farther route up to Iceland and Greenland (and a stop in the Gulf of St Lawerence). Our ship is mostly doing 18 knts and many times a lot slower. Wiki suggests QM2 cruises at 26knts.
In reply to TRoglodyte :
Yes indeed. United States is supposed to have made 43 knots on sea trials or 49.48 statute miles per hour, the actual top speed was classified by the US government for many years as construction of the ship had been subsidized by the government for emergency use as a high speed troop transport. The speed record she holds for the Atlantic crossing is 35.59 knots for a 3 day, 10 hour, 40 minute crossing. That converts to 40.95 mph which is cooking for something that big.
alfadriver said:In reply to TRoglodyte :
I'm pretty sure they don't go that fast anymore. QM2 does it in 7 days, and the trip we are on has 8 days at sea and a much farther route up to Iceland and Greenland (and a stop in the Gulf of St Lawerence). Our ship is mostly doing 18 knts and many times a lot slower. Wiki suggests QM2 cruises at 26knts.
Speed was a big priority before air travel was a thing. Nowadays it's more about the experience than getting across as quickly as possible.
In reply to alfadriver :
There's no question the way ship propulsion is done completely differently now. The propulsion plant for the United States was state of the art for the early 1950's, just shy of 250,000 shaft horsepower and more powerful than any of the WW2 aircraft carriers or battleships. Steam propulsion has been overtaken by diesel electric or gas turbines for most warships, steam plants are only being used for nuclear powered aircraft carriers and submarines. Commercial ships are almost exclusively slow speed direct drive diesels although diesel electric drive is beginning to be considered again.
The current cruise ship method is multiple engines driving generators (alternators if we're being technically correct) with direct drive motors installed in pods outside the ship's hull. Some of the pods are fixed, some rotate to allow steering and use as thrusters to limit the need for tugboats for docking and undocking. The same engines generate the electricity for all the hotel uses when the ship is in port, if they need to move or speed up they start more engines as the load dictates. The inverter technologies needed to be able to control large propulsion motors really didn't exist even 30 years ago, electric drive ship or submarines of the past used DC motors that are not as efficient and can have significant maintenance needs. It's only been in the last 10 - 15 years that the control of motors in the 10,000 or so HP range needed for ships has become possible.
TRoglodyte said:35 mph is fast on the water, 45,000 tons going that fast mind boggling.
Speed was highly useful in WWII. The Queen Mary was used as a troop transport and a U-boat would need to be very lucky to even get a shot at it since it could cruise at 30 knots. This is over 10 knots faster than a U-boat on the surface!
(Most torpedoes where around 30-40 knots)
In reply to 11GTCS :
I was actually able to tour a ship, in current use, that was steam turbine powered. I was told it was one of the few left. Here are a few engine room shots:
aircooled said:TRoglodyte said:35 mph is fast on the water, 45,000 tons going that fast mind boggling.
Speed was highly useful in WWII. The Queen Mary was used as a troop transport and a U-boat would need to be very lucky to even get a shot at it since it could cruise at 30 knots. This is over 10 knots faster than a U-boat on the surface!
In both world wars. In fact, part of the reason people were still willing to cross on the Lusitania despite warnings from the Germans that she could be targeted was that it was thought that her speed would keep her safe from U-boats. It... uh... didn't work out that way.
TRoglodyte said:35 mph is fast on the water, 45,000 tons going that fast mind boggling.
I wonder if anyone ever water skied behind it.
In reply to stuart in mn :
Mythbusters wake boarded behind a cruise ship https://youtu.be/2rjIzlwBiKs?si=_N41UjCV4j_BDvoh
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