Learn me 90s Diesel trucks

I know what you mean. My wife won't drive the dually either, but was semi okay with the 3/4 ton 4x4 Ford we had.

Cotton wrote:

Ian F wrote: If I get to the position where I'm looking for a dedicated truck for towing, it'll be a 2WD dually. Probably diesel. Probably an auto. Newest I can afford. Don't care about brand. Run it for a few years, sell it before it needs anything major (and turns into yet another project) and get a newer one. Repeat. Basically, keep it maintained, but use it like an appliance.

My 2wd Ram diesel dually tows like a dream. It has a built auto with ATS triple disk converter. The ONLY reason I'm planning to move to a 4wd is because I am sick and tired of getting stuck in my field when it's wet. For some reason it's always raining when I'm in a rush to grab one of my trailers and do some towing. Just recently I had to use my 4x4 Suburban to pull out my dually complete with gooseneck trailer and toyota pick up on the trailer. That sucked because I was by myself, so had to keep the ram running and tie the steering wheel with the seatbelt to manuver it the few turns out of the field to the road. I thought about a rear locker and more aggressive tires, but honestly think I need to just go all out and get the 4x4 dually.

Why doncha just put the trailers somewhere else?

Part of me really wants a 2WD diesel pickup. Slam it to the ground, put tall gears in the back and drive it every day. Old guy at church has a late 90s Dodge diesel with a manual transmission and single back wheels. I want the exact same truck but with an automatic.

In reply to JFX001:

I thought about a nice concrete pad for the trailers and gravel road leading out of the field, but concrete is expensive.....about the cost of a decent mid 90s 4x4 diesel!

slefain wrote: a late 90s Dodge diesel with a manual transmission and single back wheels.

This is what my g/f's brother has (and is one reason I got suckered into the Ram vs the '93 and older truck I wanted). His is a '97. He doesn't drive it much anymore (seems it's broken more often than mine is...) since he bought a Jeep. Both of our trucks are Club Cabs with std doors. IIRC, the quad-cab was offered in '96 or '97, then later they discontinued the club-cab 2 dr.

Cotton wrote: In reply to JFX001: I thought about a nice concrete pad for the trailers and gravel road leading out of the field, but concrete is expensive.....about the cost of a decent mid 90s 4x4 diesel!

Have you priced a pad of decomposed granite or crushed limestone? Might be a good bit less than concrete.

In reply to spitfirebill:

No but I'll check into that. That might be just the thing for trailer and "future projects" parking.

I managed two Dodge Cummins trucks in a previous job. I put 500,000 miles on one, the other was totaled (not our fault) at 250,000 mi. and I put another 200,000 miles on its replacement. The first two were 12v and the replacement was a 24v. All three were towing 4000lbs with another 1000lb in the bed. At all times. Nothing ever went wrong. End of story.

Cool - another Cummins vote here. There is much info on these two sites: dieseltruckresource.com and cumminsforum.com

Here is a rundown.

98.5 started the '4 doors' as you say - extended cab, but the two back ones open like a clamshell. Easy enough to get in, load stuff in the back seat, etc.

That year also started the 24 valve engine.

12 valve is simpler.

When something breaks, it is usually expensive.

They are good trucks though. I've owned 3. A 95 12v with 200k miles (honest old lady owned - not a drip of oil, original tranny - ran great. No issues.

A 98.5 dually - pulled 50k miles with that one. Never left us stranded, but did require a bit of 'repairs' to keep going (most expensive one - a new turbo ($1k, a new injection pump (the weak link in the 24v - at $1500), front end work......but it ran great, pulled great and fast. Good economy as well. There is a '53' block in the 98-2000 models that is prone to cracking - many say to stay away from those. Plus, the 24v have a fuel pump that pulls and could starve the injection pump ($1500 remember) of fuel - that is why many upgrade to a pusher pump system (FASS or Airdog are the brands) to help quell that problem. Again, more money, but cheap insurance on the road.

Not quiet. But great seats. And the best part is - they really don't go down in value - buy, drive and sell for maybe more than purchase price (minus any repairs).

Hope this was clear enough.....let me know if it wasn't...I've spent way too much time researching this stuff.

Rami

DrBoost wrote:

ignorant wrote: My old boss worked for the Big C and did all the turbo development for the 5.9 in the ram. He also did all the noise work for them. He drove a powerstroke. Cause they're just cheaper. Do some comparative shopping. You'll get a nicer truck for cheaper with a Ford.

You might pay a little more for a Dodge (though I haven't seen prices to support that) but when you factor that over a longer lifespan they are cheaper. And they sound bad a$$

longer life span is debateable vs cheaper is debateable.

For the price of a 97 dodge you can get a 2001 or 2002 ford SD with the 7.3.... That is what my research shows...

I know I am going to get flamed over this, but you can buy a REALLY nice '95-'98 1/2-ton Chebby or GMC with the 6.5 TD in it for VERY little money. I have had many of these and have gotten terrific service with them. Keep in mind that they do not offer the torque that the Cummins and Powerstruggles offer, but they are very capable light trucks. My last was a '95. It was a 1/2-ton/2WD/6.5T/4L80E. I pulled an 18-foot car trailer and was still able to get better than 19 MPG even in the mountains. I had a full 4" exhaust, a chip, a set of marine injectors, cold-air intake (that probably grabbed more hot air than cold), and a B&M electronic shift improver. All I am saying is that if you are not going to pull REALLY heavy loads all the time (<10,000 lbs.), you may not need a Cummins or Powerjoke. You may not need a 3/4-ton or 1-ton either. Just remember that if you get a 1/2-ton, you aren't going to get the suspension or brakes that the bigger trucks have. I never had a problem towing or stopping with my 1500 as I had a well-outfitted trailer and trailer brakes.
Don't listen to the nay-sayers. I have owned, maintained, and repaired many of these 6.5 trucks (and Cummins and Powerstrokes for that matter) and see nothing wrong with the 6.5's. They often roast FSD's (fuel controllers), but they are easily replaced and relocated to prevent future failures. Get a '97 or up if you can find one as they have cooling upgrades that started in '97. Also, I never liked the manual over the auto in these trucks, but they seem to do better than the NV4500's do in the Cummins. Of course, the 6.5's aren't making the torque (or pulling the weight, probably) that the Cummins is. Anyway, my $.02. I hope it helps.

-Les

Well, once I discount the fraudulent ads on CL like the F250 Diesel that keeps cropping up in three or four corners of the country, there aren't that many diesels around in the first place. I don't think I've even seen a GM one.

I'll better extend the search to ebay as well but it's good to know that most of the big three's diesel trucks are at least OK, even if the Cummins is the one that stands out.

Depending on how quickly we end up having to move, we might end up with a gas truck instead as these are at least reasonably easy to find.

Re towing capacity, I doubt we'll be towing more than 5000-6000 pounds' worth but I'd like to have the ability to go up to about 8000-10000 if need be.

Skip the diesel. Spend $2k-3k on the same year 1/2 or 3/4 ton gas truck and use the other $4000 to buy gas for it. Figure out how many miles you'll put on it in a year and figure you'll get 5-8 mpg less with the gas motor. I think most people come out way ahead with a gas truck.

I did end up with a diesel. I stumbled into a 99 2wd Dodge 3/4 ton extended cab for $2750. I did have to rebuild the trans though.

Well, one problem is that $2k-$3k down here buys a ropey 80s truck if you're lucky. Mid-90s trucks are still at the $5k-$6k mark if they're any good (and 4WD). Still, the turbo diesels are even more expensive so I've now started looking at gas trucks.

Any comments on mid-nineties F250s (the square shaped ones)? I've seen a couple here within my budget with tow packages and the 460 that look tempting.

From an engineering standpoint, the 12v cummins is tits. It rocks. Period. Unfortunately, everyone knows this and prices tend to reflect that. You don't get nearly as much truck for your money.

The 94-97 Powerstroke is a wicked workhorse. I had one for several years and abused the hell out of it. Be prepared to change the cam position sensor at about 150-200k. Its not cheap, but its not the terrible thing everyone thinks it is. Expect to replace glow plug relays every 80-100k. Napa PN# GPR104, $39.95.

On another engineering note, diesel crankshaft harmonics are brutal. With an L6 like the Cummins, you get pulses every 120 degrees of rotation. With a V8 you get pulses ever 90 degrees. In a manual transmission application, the V8 wins my vote every time. In an automatic application its not quite as big a deal.

My personal choice of trucks is the Ford. I don't like Dodge trucks. Ew.

Early Dodge/Cummins manuals should be avoided. The 5-speeds couldn't take the torque or the vibes. The early 6 speeds were better, but still not that great. Even the mighty NV5600 in the later trucks wasn't the best. Early automatics should be avoided. The 47RE that started in 95 was better and can at least be beefed up pretty well. The 48RE started in 03 and is another step better, but we rebuild a lot of them at our shop.

94-97 powerstrokes are simple and reliable. They used an E4OD transmission that was often panned for being pretty wimpy, but I towed 10,000 lbs with mine in OD trying to kill it and never had a single problem. Starting in 98/99 they updated the E4OD and called it the 4R100W. Much better tranny. The earlier trucks used a ZF45 manual that is very competent unless you're going with a chip or making massive power. The later body style got the 6 speed and right now I can't remember if it was a ZF or a NV5600. On a sidenote, with the body change in 98/99, some maintenance becomes a bit more difficult. Any engine disassembly will require removing the cab since the engine is setback under the sloped windshield. The benefit to the later 98/99-03 trucks is that they came with a very competent intercooler. But, this is GRM... and adapting later intercoolers into earlier 'strokes is pretty simple.

The ultimate medium-duty tow rig (in my opinion) would be a 94-97 F250 with a Cummins diesel and an Allison A1000 tranny. Its been done and its not too difficult. Since I'm not made of money, my second choice would be the same truck with a Powerstroke (retrofitted intercooler) and an NV5600.

Not to be forgotten... you might be able to pick up a Silverado with a Duramax for somewhere near your $7k mark. The 01-04 LB7 Duramax is super easy to modify, has a killer Allison A1000 (which should be beefed if going big power), and really nice quiet interiors. The problem I see with that is the build quality of GM in those years - really cheap quality interior materials, soft paint, annoying electrical gremlins.

Having owned all three (plus a 6.5 chevy diesel) I would say go with the 7.3 'stroke from 94-97. Most bang for your buck, great solid truck, E4OD is easy to remove and cheap to rebuild, rock solid transfer cases, I-beam front axles are nearly indestructible, 11.5" sterling rear axle is awesome (and you don't have to take the axles out to pull brake drums like with the chevy) Ford also put a lot of effort into making maintenance easy. The fuel filter is mounted on the top front of the engine in a cup. Just unscrew one and drop in the new. No mess, 5 minute job, self primes when you're done. The GPR is mounted right beside it with four screws - another five minute job. All in all its the most "gas like" when it comes to underhood familiarity. Downsides are ride quality and no third/fourth door with the extended cab.

On any of them, avoid the pushbutton/electric 4x4. They are a complex network of electronics, vacuum lines, and servos. They fail constantly and parts can be expensive. If people are too wussy to grab a stick on the floor once a month, they don't deserve 4x4

for the 90's 12v cummins is the only way to go. i have an 03 24v that is just awesome, NO complaints

curtis73 wrote: From an engineering standpoint, the 12v cummins is tits.

Thats a bold assertion.. Prove why 2 valves per cylinder are better than 4...

It's not the valve count. It's the simply reliability and basic indestructability that NO other diesel has. The 24V has computer controls, that means sensors. Those computers and sensors get expensive when they go bad. The 12V has a starter, some headlights and a muffler if you're a sissy.

DrBoost wrote: It's not the valve count. It's the simply reliability and basic indestructability that NO other diesel has. The 24V has computer controls, that means sensors. Those computers and sensors get expensive when they go bad. The 12V has a starter, some headlights and a muffler if you're a sissy.

how does it make it from an "engineering standpoint" better?

Does it flow more? etc.. etc.. etc..

What you've effectively said is a carb is better than fuel injection..

Give me something more concrete than stupid internet BS.

use words like BSFC in your response.

ignorant wrote:

DrBoost wrote: It's not the valve count. It's the simply reliability and basic indestructability that NO other diesel has. The 24V has computer controls, that means sensors. Those computers and sensors get expensive when they go bad. The 12V has a starter, some headlights and a muffler if you're a sissy.

Give me something more concrete than stupid internet BS.

I did give you something other than stupid internet BS, try reading. From MY EXPERIENCE in owning a 12V and personally knowing 2 others that have had the 24V motors (one was only a year or two newer, the other a few years) I have seen the difference in repairs and drivability issues between the two.
Carbs would be better if they performed better than EFI. In this case my 12V did perform better. It gave the same (sometimes better) fuel economy and never had a reliability issue.
Can you give me something more than internet trolling and ignorant attacks?

DrBoost wrote: Can you give me something more than internet trolling and ignorant attacks?

Which engine has the better BSFC..

give me data...

...just because Holset fired your ignorant butt doesnt give you the right to bash Dodge products.

Ah, I KNEW there was a reason he is being an asshat. And ignant, I don't care about BSFC or anything other than what I know and have experienced. You don't seem to have any knowledge or experience other than a few engineering stats and jaded opinions. How many miles have you logged in either of the diesels being mentioned (I suppose we're going to hear a claim of 5,000,000 miles in each of the big three, a hino, a blue bird coach and a go cart powered by a Detroit Diesel Series 50).

93gsxturbo wrote: ...just because Holset fired your ignorant butt doesnt give you the right to bash Dodge products.

I'm not bashing dodge products I am trying to debunk some stupid E36 M3.

you'll find the 24v is a more effiecent engine.. that's all I'm proving. Everyone thinks the 12v's are the E36 M3 because noone understands a 24v yet..

thanks for being a total douche. It's cool, I now fire guys like you for a living. Watch out who you tick off.

DrBoost wrote: Ah, I KNEW there was a reason he is being an asshat. And ignant, I don't care about BSFC or anything other than what I know and have experienced. You don't seem to have any knowledge or experience other than a few engineering stats and jaded opinions. How many miles have you logged in either of the diesels being mentioned (I suppose we're going to hear a claim of 5,000,000 miles in each of the big three, a hino, a blue bird coach and a go cart powered by a Detroit Diesel Series 50).

I owe you nothing except to know that the 24v is a better engine than the 12v. If you don't know how to tune it.. It's your loss.