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frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
10/11/20 10:20 p.m.

Big dog have big brains and aren't easily frightened. New Fundlands and St Bernards are wonderful around children. Protective yet patient and attentive. 
mix breeds are better than pure bloods. Absolutely cage train them. But giant dogs are smart and catch on quick. 
feed them high quality  food and they  eat a moderate amount and their waste is moderate as well.  

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
10/11/20 10:38 p.m.

Man thanks guys. This is real information I don't feel like I can get anywhere else. 
 

please any more info is good. My preference is to rescue, but if it's better for the family and disposition, I'm willing to try something different. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
10/11/20 10:44 p.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

[Greyhounds] have short haircoats, so shedding isn't as big of an issue.

 Dear god they shed like crazy.  Its short hair so not noticeable, but the amount that comes off one if you pet it is truly astounding.  And this is coming from someone with an Austrailan Shepherd/Hound mix of some sort.

Slippery (Forum Supporter)
Slippery (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/11/20 11:07 p.m.

How much is pet health insurance approximately?

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
10/11/20 11:16 p.m.
frenchyd said:

Big dog have big brains and aren't easily frightened.  Feed them high quality  food and they  eat a moderate amount and their waste is moderate as well.  

This exactly.

We free feed and we feed a high quality food. 

The dogs catch on really fast that food will always be around. They stop gorging themselves and only eat when they're hungry.

My mom's old rescue would just "process" food for the first couple weeks until she figured out that nobody was going to take it from her. Then she mellowed right out and settled in at a healthy weight.

Quality food really matters. You don't have to go all crazy, holistic, raw food only but just read the label. As long as the first ingredients aren't called "by-product" or "meal" you're usually ok. Look for the first ingredients to be a meat like "Chicken" or "duck" or "lamb", make sure it's not all fillers either. Stuff like wheat, corn and potato should be down the list a little way.

If you buy them cheap food, you'll spend the same as good food anyway because they will eat more and have more vet bills. Just like if you ate nothing but fast food. 

mtn (Forum Supporter)
mtn (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/11/20 11:17 p.m.
ProDarwin said:
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

[Greyhounds] have short haircoats, so shedding isn't as big of an issue.

 Dear god they shed like crazy.  Its short hair so not noticeable, but the amount that comes off one if you pet it is truly astounding.  And this is coming from someone with an Austrailan Shepherd/Hound mix of some sort.


I've never lived with doodles or other non-shedding dogs, so won't comment on them, but for longhair vs shorthair dogs, I'll go with longhair every day of the week. It is more work in the sense of you notice the hair immediately, but they generally don't shed more - it is just more noticeable, and it is much easier to clean. The lab and Great Dane hair gets on your clothes and it is much harder to remove.

Other people think I'm nuts when I say that. You may think I'm nuts. Maybe I am.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/11/20 11:19 p.m.

The larger the dog, the calmer and less aggressive they are usually.

 

This is mostly because aggressive tendency is bred out of dogs that are big enough to easily kill you basically.

 

yupididit
yupididit PowerDork
10/11/20 11:21 p.m.

Anyone ever do a raw diet for their dog? 

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
10/11/20 11:32 p.m.


My current dog is a mutt.  Dry mouth, 40 lbs and healthy as she can be.  Guards the house, is AWESOME with the kids, doesn't have any real bad habits.   Is very sweet natured and middlingly smart.   She's the MaryAnn of the dog world.

As far as breed......maybe a bit of he'd heeler in there somewhere but mostly just mutt.   I've had a few other dogs, my sister is a vet and has a whole herd of the blessed things.   Some are better than others, neither of us had any luck with the pits we tried (both bit people when we weren't around, won't have that).  
 

I had a boxer years ago, hard headed, crafty, and drooly.   He was pretty awesome in a lot of ways but not enough to make up for those shortcomings.

If you ever find one, a Catahoula Leopard Dog is a pretty cool dude.   I had one of them as well and he was just about perfect.   But their breed standard is "Louisiana mutt" so that's not really a surprise.

Torkel
Torkel Reader
10/12/20 4:13 a.m.

I can strongly recommend a smaller dog. My family has only had larger dogs (Rottweiler, Bearners and similar) before I adopted a little 15pounds 9month mixed breed girl. She is now 13 years and nicknamed "The steel-lady". We walk in the woods pretty much every day, we go on hikes, I take her with me to the track, she comes with me on road trips, she hangs out in the shop with me, etc. Never in 12 years has she been "too small" to come along or to handle the terrain. Sure, I might need to lift her over a stream or so, but since she is 15pounds, that's not really an issue. 

Fact:

- Smaller dogs live longer and stay healthier longer. The Steel-lady still keeps pace with me at age 13. 

- They are easier to bring along, so IF you train them RIGHT, they can come along and socialize easier then larger dogs. I would trust her with a toddler wrapped in bacon - she is 100% reliable. 

- You don't have to change your car, or your life - a smaller dog is easier to practically fit into you life. 

- The whole "Small dogs bark - big dogs don't" is a myth. People tend to not TRAIN their small dogs properly and lets them get away with more shenanigans then large dogs. Blame the misguided and lazy owners, not the small breeds. 
 

Kyra the Steel-lady:


 

Nuclear Nellie, adoptee #2. Adopted at 5months, is now 6years.


OMG the garbage truck is here!

The main thing I took away from the OP is this.

They want a dog and you are going to get stuck taking care of it. You will end up hating the dog. The breed won't matter. 
 

My recommendation is don't get a dog. 

 

 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/12/20 7:42 a.m.
yupididit said:

Anyone ever do a raw diet for their dog? 

BAD IDEA! 

I've seen some really sick dogs from eating raw diets.

There's a lot of food fads when it comes to feeding dogs. I've honestly been hesitant to post about any of them, since the reaction is often the same as asking someone who they're going to vote for or where they go to church. 

This one will put the dog and the family at risk for salmonella, listeriosis, or other serious food poisoning. There are warnings about this from the FDA and the American Veterinary Medical Association. 

I'd link them, but I found out last night that if I open another window on my phone, it clears out my post in the current thread. 

Another food fad that is especially serious is grain free dog food. There's no nutritional benefit to avoiding grains in dogs, and grain allergies are not at all significant in food allergic dogs. The only benefit to the widespread marketing of grain-free foods is to the dog food manufacturers. 

There are cases of heart failure related to grain-free foods. I've seen young healthy dogs come in to the office gasping for breath and with whopping murmurs after only a few weeks of eating one of the boutique brands.

Other dogs can eat these foods and be fine, or may not progress into full blown heart failure, but will develop less serious heart damage.

The cardiology specialists that are working on the issue are currently giving the following advice: avoid what they call BEG foods. Boutique brand, Exotic ingredient, Grain free.

Exotic ingredient doesn't mean ostrich meat, it means sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, lentils or other legumes.

I've seen dogs that were being fed foods that should not have caused a problem, and developed murmurs after the owner started feeding them sweet potatoes and peas to supplement their dog food.

The current recommendations are to feed food made by three different manufacturers. I've seen these same recommendations when reading the proceedings from two different lectures from last fall.

They both recommended feeding foods made by Mars (disclosure: the company I work for is owned by Mars), Hill's, or Purina. What sets these companies apart is that they do food trials. The food trials are done just like a drug trial.

 

TJL (Forum Supporter)
TJL (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
10/12/20 8:28 a.m.

I was in a similar situation. Wife loves dogs, i didnt. Son would of course like one. So obviously, we got a dog. Randomly went to the hunane society to "just look" and we left with Weezy. 
 

she is a "staffordshire terrier" mutt. Got her as a puppy, unfortunately WAY too early. Humane society claimed she was 8 weeks old, everyone else thought more like 4-6 weeks tops. 
 

puppy life is crap. Breaking in a puppy will make you want to drop kick the thing many times over. I HATED HER for the first few months until she grew up a bit and got a little training. Once she stopped going to the bathroom in the crate and whining constantly things got better. 

she is still less than a year old but she is very good. She is on the larger size of a "medium" dog. Pretty proportionate, not a genetic freak that will die of old age at 4. Just a standard dog. She thinks nothing of being on/off leash. We are not fenced in but she rarely leaves the yard when we let her run around.  She does not bolt once she is off the leash. Pretty happy and pretty smart. She only barks if she senses something isnt right, she does shed a good bit but its short hair so not a big mess. She loves water, playing ball, all the usual stuff.  Pretty much what we were wanting. and yeah despite being a "pit bull"/pibble, she is very friendly. She does not care if other dogs are barking at her, just trots on by. Not saying all pits are nice, just i can say that this one is.  I'd suggest one. 
 

but either way, get a shelter animal/rescue. Dont buy from a breeder!

yupididit
yupididit PowerDork
10/12/20 8:35 a.m.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

I was hoping you'd chime in! Thank you! 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/12/20 8:42 a.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:
yupididit said:

Anyone ever do a raw diet for their dog? 

BAD IDEA! 

I've seen some really sick dogs from eating raw diets.

There's a lot of food fads when it comes to feeding dogs. I've honestly been hesitant to post about any of them, since the reaction is often the same as asking someone who they're going to vote for or where they go to church. 

This one will put the dog and the family at risk for salmonella, listeriosis, or other serious food poisoning. There are warnings about this from the FDA and the American Veterinary Medical Association. 

I'd link them, but I found out last night that if I open another window on my phone, it clears out my post in the current thread. 

Another food fad that is especially serious is grain free dog food. There's no nutritional benefit to avoiding grains in dogs, and grain allergies are not at all significant in food allergic dogs. The only benefit to the widespread marketing of grain-free foods is to the dog food manufacturers. 

There are cases of heart failure related to grain-free foods. I've seen young healthy dogs come in to the office gasping for breath and with whopping murmurs after only a few weeks of eating one of the boutique brands.

Other dogs can eat these foods and be fine, or may not progress into full blown heart failure, but will develop less serious heart damage.

The cardiology specialists that are working on the issue are currently giving the following advice: avoid what they call BEG foods. Boutique brand, Exotic ingredient, Grain free.

Exotic ingredient doesn't mean ostrich meat, it means sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, lentils or other legumes.

I've seen dogs that were being fed foods that should not have caused a problem, and developed murmurs after the owner started feeding them sweet potatoes and peas to supplement their dog food.

The current recommendations are to feed food made by three different manufacturers. I've seen these same recommendations when reading the proceedings from two different lectures from last fall.

They both recommended feeding foods made by Mars (disclosure: the company I work for is owned by Mars), Hill's, or Purina. What sets these companies apart is that they do food trials. The food trials are done just like a drug trial.

 

I respectfully disagree.  While I agree that domestic dogs aren't wolves or hyenas, their digestive system is one thing that hasn't changed much from wild dogs through all the breeding.  I fed 9 dogs raw for 15 years.  All of them lived well past their expected lifespans.  Several of them are still alive including a 14 year old Pit that acts like she's 3 and an 18 year old chihuahua who (aside from macular degeneration) is still going strong.  I recently lost a French Bulldog.... at 15 years old.

A well-rounded and safe raw diet poses no harm to most dogs.  No more than you eating a rare steak or some good sushi.

The AMVA has no choice but to condemn raw diets.  First and foremost, they are covering their butts.  They have to say no just like every screwdriver you buy has 3 pages in the owner's manual that say you need gloves, eye protection, and a radiation suit before you even open the toolbox.  Secondly, the AMVA is heavily influenced by the commercial dog food industry.  Pet food companies put significant R&D into making their pet foods profitable and not poisonous, and significant money into advertising, lobbying, and endorsing their products to AMVA, just like McDonalds does to you.  Since raw diets don't have commercial interests, they have no AMVA endorsement.  Just like no one from the Broccoli Association is advertising that you cook broccoli at home as an alternative to going to McDonalds.  Not to mention, do a simple google search for "pet food recall" and look at how many animals died from commercial pet food over the last 10 years.

Cheap dog food is the equivalent of fast food for you.  Good commercial dog food is like eating Panera every day; a little better, but still processed junk, It is either full of useless, cheap, profitable filler that doesn't rot, filled with preservatives, or cooked to death in extremely hot ovens until it is one step away from charcoal so it doesn't rot.

Having said that, I currently feed Moxie Buffalo Blue because furloughs don't pay very well and the days of 99-cent per pound briskets and $1.29 chickens are long gone.  She has gained weight, poops way more, has much more gas, and her energy is way down on commercial dog food.  Her vet doesn't like her bloodwork either.  Still fine, but a definitely noticeable change.

I'm not advocating that everyone should feed raw any more than I would advocate how to raise your child, but raw feeders have been branded into the same group as tinfoil hats and anti-vaxxers and it's incredibly unfair, not to mention biased by things like the AMVA, but if you do the research there is little evidence to back up the claims.  Anyone who criticizes raw diets to me is no different than the screwdriver owner's manual criticizing me for not wearing steel-toed shoes when I put a screw in the wall to hang a picture.  I won't die using a screwdriver with Crocs on my feet.

Feel free to criticize the Crocs, though.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/12/20 11:46 a.m.
yupididit said:

Anyone ever do a raw diet for their dog? 

I used to feed my dog either chicken and rice or hamburger and rice every night, always cooked though and never raw. Add in whatever veggies I had around, usually peas and carrots but occasionally broccoli.

 

It was a pain to cook him dinner some nights but I didn't mind. It helped him a lot the last 2 years of his life vs any food I fed him. He was 14 and a large breed dog, healthy to the end until neurological things happened.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
10/12/20 12:02 p.m.
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

The main thing I took away from the OP is this.

They want a dog and you are going to get stuck taking care of it. You will end up hating the dog. The breed won't matter. 
 

My recommendation is don't get a dog. 

 

 

Sort of correct. The wife and daughter want something to cuddle with in front of the tv at night- something that loves them unconditionally, which our cat doesn't really do. It may be more than that, but right now that's what I'm reading, and probably the reason we collectively aren't taking it super seriously at this time. That's not a good enough reason to get a dog. 

I suspect I will be the one taking it for runs, and doing the physical activity part of upbringing. Probably some other stuff too. 


I don't know if we will do it- the point here was to get informed in case they start to get serious so I don't just abdicate all decision making ability because I don't know anything about them. truthfully, I think I'm becoming open to it in the same way I became open to being a parent- you get the idea in the back of your head and start looking at dogs/babies as more than just noisy E36 M3 machines and more like little companions - and in the dogs case, a little dude who never grows past 3 years older in human intelligence/maturity. I don't regret my children at all, and suspect I would develop a sort of similar love for a dog. 
 

ramble off. And thanks again for all the good information. You guys never disappoint. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/12/20 12:09 p.m.
Teh E36 M3 said:
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

The main thing I took away from the OP is this.

They want a dog and you are going to get stuck taking care of it. You will end up hating the dog. The breed won't matter. 
 

My recommendation is don't get a dog. 

 

 

Sort of correct. The wife and daughter want something to cuddle with in front of the tv at night- something that loves them unconditionally, which our cat doesn't really do. It may be more than that, but right now that's what I'm reading, and probably the reason we collectively aren't taking it super seriously at this time. That's not a good enough reason to get a dog. 

I suspect I will be the one taking it for runs, and doing the physical activity part of upbringing. Probably some other stuff too. 


I don't know if we will do it- the point here was to get informed in case they start to get serious so I don't just abdicate all decision making ability because I don't know anything about them. truthfully, I think I'm becoming open to it in the same way I became open to being a parent- you get the idea in the back of your head and start looking at dogs/babies as more than just noisy E36 M3 machines and more like little companions - and in the dogs case, a little dude who never grows past 3 years older in human intelligence/maturity. I don't regret my children at all, and suspect I would develop a sort of similar love for a dog. 
 

ramble off. And thanks again for all the good information. You guys never disappoint. 

Bluntly if that's the only reason the want a dog......don't get a dog.

 

There's a lot of first time dog owners that think of dogs as appliances that give them love and usually it ends in the dog being given away to the pound.

 

Dogs are a lot of work and good dogs are really worth it but you have to put in the work to get a good dog too

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
10/12/20 12:50 p.m.

As the one who would have looked into getting a cat (but was okay with no animals until I caved on a puppy), and the one who does 85% of the physical activity with our dog, I would recommend you really get on board, or hold out against. You will love a dog, as I do mine (Black Lab/German Shepherd mix - very smart and fantastic, but so much energy), but it is a change in lifestyle.  I can't work in the garage or sit on the couch, or even work from home without her wanting to play, and she always wants to be outside. Very cute - but it's always a nagging guilt that the dog needs attention and here I am doing (Insert task here) in the garage that doesn't really need done right now. We added her before we have a kid though, so maybe you're already used to that/have figured out how to work around it.

Scotty Con Queso
Scotty Con Queso SuperDork
10/12/20 1:12 p.m.

We just caved to our kids demands and purchased a weird bat/pig hybrid.  I've had dogs before and honestly I forgot how much work they are. Granted it's a puppy, but still. We wanted a small dog that could go with us 90 percent of the time. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/12/20 1:13 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:
yupididit said:

Anyone ever do a raw diet for their dog? 

BAD IDEA! 

I've seen some really sick dogs from eating raw diets.

There's a lot of food fads when it comes to feeding dogs. I've honestly been hesitant to post about any of them, since the reaction is often the same as asking someone who they're going to vote for or where they go to church. 

This one will put the dog and the family at risk for salmonella, listeriosis, or other serious food poisoning. There are warnings about this from the FDA and the American Veterinary Medical Association. 

I'd link them, but I found out last night that if I open another window on my phone, it clears out my post in the current thread. 

Another food fad that is especially serious is grain free dog food. There's no nutritional benefit to avoiding grains in dogs, and grain allergies are not at all significant in food allergic dogs. The only benefit to the widespread marketing of grain-free foods is to the dog food manufacturers. 

There are cases of heart failure related to grain-free foods. I've seen young healthy dogs come in to the office gasping for breath and with whopping murmurs after only a few weeks of eating one of the boutique brands.

Other dogs can eat these foods and be fine, or may not progress into full blown heart failure, but will develop less serious heart damage.

The cardiology specialists that are working on the issue are currently giving the following advice: avoid what they call BEG foods. Boutique brand, Exotic ingredient, Grain free.

Exotic ingredient doesn't mean ostrich meat, it means sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, lentils or other legumes.

I've seen dogs that were being fed foods that should not have caused a problem, and developed murmurs after the owner started feeding them sweet potatoes and peas to supplement their dog food.

The current recommendations are to feed food made by three different manufacturers. I've seen these same recommendations when reading the proceedings from two different lectures from last fall.

They both recommended feeding foods made by Mars (disclosure: the company I work for is owned by Mars), Hill's, or Purina. What sets these companies apart is that they do food trials. The food trials are done just like a drug trial.

 

I respectfully disagree.  While I agree that domestic dogs aren't wolves or hyenas, their digestive system is one thing that hasn't changed much from wild dogs through all the breeding.  I fed 9 dogs raw for 15 years.  All of them lived well past their expected lifespans.  Several of them are still alive including a 14 year old Pit that acts like she's 3 and an 18 year old chihuahua who (aside from macular degeneration) is still going strong.  I recently lost a French Bulldog.... at 15 years old.

A well-rounded and safe raw diet poses no harm to most dogs.  No more than you eating a rare steak or some good sushi.

The AMVA has no choice but to condemn raw diets.  First and foremost, they are covering their butts.  They have to say no just like every screwdriver you buy has 3 pages in the owner's manual that say you need gloves, eye protection, and a radiation suit before you even open the toolbox.  Secondly, the AMVA is heavily influenced by the commercial dog food industry.  Pet food companies put significant R&D into making their pet foods profitable and not poisonous, and significant money into advertising, lobbying, and endorsing their products to AMVA, just like McDonalds does to you.  Since raw diets don't have commercial interests, they have no AMVA endorsement.  Just like no one from the Broccoli Association is advertising that you cook broccoli at home as an alternative to going to McDonalds.  Not to mention, do a simple google search for "pet food recall" and look at how many animals died from commercial pet food over the last 10 years.

Cheap dog food is the equivalent of fast food for you.  Good commercial dog food is like eating Panera every day; a little better, but still processed junk, It is either full of useless, cheap, profitable filler that doesn't rot, filled with preservatives, or cooked to death in extremely hot ovens until it is one step away from charcoal so it doesn't rot.

Having said that, I currently feed Moxie Buffalo Blue because furloughs don't pay very well and the days of 99-cent per pound briskets and $1.29 chickens are long gone.  She has gained weight, poops way more, has much more gas, and her energy is way down on commercial dog food.  Her vet doesn't like her bloodwork either.  Still fine, but a definitely noticeable change.

I'm not advocating that everyone should feed raw any more than I would advocate how to raise your child, but raw feeders have been branded into the same group as tinfoil hats and anti-vaxxers and it's incredibly unfair, not to mention biased by things like the AMVA, but if you do the research there is little evidence to back up the claims.  Anyone who criticizes raw diets to me is no different than the screwdriver owner's manual criticizing me for not wearing steel-toed shoes when I put a screw in the wall to hang a picture.  I won't die using a screwdriver with Crocs on my feet.

Feel free to criticize the Crocs, though.

Isn't Floating Doc a Veterinarian? 

Justjim75
Justjim75 Dork
10/12/20 1:13 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

There are some good websites that help you choose a dog.

Edit: just checked my bookmarks, and they're all dead URLs, or I would have linked them.

Everyone has their favorites.  Border Collies and other herding dogs are really a great thing for some people.  I for one can't stand them.  WAY too much exercise needs for me.

I have owned Beagles, Bassetts, french bulldog, several chihuahuas, two pits, irish wolfhound, and a few other assorted mutts.  You need to find the right mixture of size and slobber.  The bigger they are, they are usually less needful of exercise, but they tend to do all the normal dog things with the same fervor regardless of size.  They will all want to sit in your lap.  Great if it's a Yorkie, not so much if it's a Dane.  They all slobber to some extent.  A chihuahua will drool wee little drops.  A St. Bernard will ooze 5 gallons of mucus-like slime every time you crinkle a potato chip bag.  It just depends on how much dog you can tolerate.

I am a strong believer in several things when it comes to dogs and choosing a companion that will make you happy. 

1) Don't get a puppy.  Puppies are cute and adorable and trip over their own feet making you laugh.  A) the honeymoon will soon be over and the cuteness gives way to real life.  B) I don't support the random proliferation of bringing new dogs into the world when there are so many homeless animals being put to sleep or living a horrible existence in a shelter.  C) You can't tell what the disposition of a puppy will be when it reaches adulthood.  My Bassett puppy began life like any normal adorable dog, but kinda turned into a douche as an adult.

2) Don't get a pure-bred or pedigreed dog unless you want to put up with health problems.  If you plan on dipping your feet into showing dogs, then yes, get an AKC registered boutique dog.  Dog breeds have been inbred and force-bred to hone specific phenotypes for human amusement.  Many breeds have specific health problems that plague their kind.  Unless you want to bring a dog into the world with the specific knowledge that they may live a horrifically painful life and/or you'll be saddled with intense vet bills to help it, get a mutt.  At least if you get a dog that looks and seems like 100% [insert breed], an AKC registered dog means that its lineage can be verified several generations back, which sounds good, but it isn't.  It means that there is a high likelihood that the genetic troubles known to that breed have been titrated, distilled, and concentrated.   If you get a German Shepherd-ish dog without the fancy title, it has a much lower chance of hip dysplasia and crippling pain than one that has been bred purely with other verified Shepherd stock.  The AKC has its heart in the right place, but generally, they serve (in my opinion) as a revenue/advertising stream at the expense of the health and proliferation of boutique animals that serve little or no purpose other than looking pretty on some ESPN off-season show.

3) If you meet a dog, it will act along a spectrum of responses to meeting you.  They are pretty telling.  A) won't come to you, runs, hides, barks, quivers.  This is the canine equivalent of paranoid schizophrenia with PTSD. Pass.  You'll never enjoy having friends over for dinner again. Every stimulus will be a debilitating, crippling, traumatizing experience for the dog.  They won't be happy, and you will be miserable. A rare number end up (just like some humans) snapping when they have just bloody had enough of being the fearful goth/emo kid that gets picked on.  B) excited to meet you, but tucks tail, pees, or slinks over and instantly turns over to expose their belly with their mouth mostly closed.  This is the equivalent of a doormat.  Spineless, afraid, Omega.  They will have trouble integrating into life unless it is monotonous and routine.  If they could talk, they would say "h- h- have you seen my stapler?"  A rare number of dogs like this end up fine because you can work to build their confidence. C) excited to meet you, tail wags, inquisitive sniffs and licks, maybe a little belly while the tail is still wagging and mouth open.  This is the winner.  Well adjusted, confident, but cautious.  Any dog that greets with confidence and a willingness to show submission is usually a winner.  They are the Tony Robbins' of the dog world.  It doesn't matter the situation, they are there to please you, and in the process it pleases themselves.  D) excited to meet you, jumps up, strong licking, maybe a bit mouthy.  Pass.  This is the equivalent of that person at a party that won't shut up, every story they have is better than yours, and their last experience on a yacht with a famous person just HAS to be told.  They are alpha.  You will never win, and in the process of trying to win, you'll just be making their lives miserable.  Dogs aren't like people in that they can't learn that their behaviors are causing their own unhappiness.  All they know is that their instinctive brain told them to eat the peas in the trash can, and no amount of scolding, beating, or berating will un-do that instinct.  At best, you can berate the behavior out of them, but you can't ever teach them the reason why they shouldn't have that instinct.  All you will be able to do is make their lives miserable in an attempt to make them conform to YOUR learned behaviors.

If you have a treat, you have a wonderful tool to help you as well.  First, it will tell you how food-driven they are.  Highly food-driven dogs can be as annoying as the selfish kid.  Once they know you have a treat, how do they react?  Do they try to nudge it out of your hand like they'll starve without it?  Do they sit and look back and forth between your face and your hand?  Then, once you give it to them, do they have a gentle mouth, or does half of your hand go down their throat?  I think you can derive which of those things is the preferable trait.

There is no real advice I can give you on breeds since any breed can fall into any of those categories.  Size does matter though.  I had a chihuahua that was a borderline D, but she was so small that any time she was a jerk, it was just cute.  You're going to threaten me with a mouth that won't even wrap around my finger?  That's adorable.  

Chihuahuas and some other smaller breeds can seem to possess more than one personality type.  The chihuahua I just mentioned was kind of a jerk, but at the first sign of discipline, she was a complete B.

The Pit I currently have is a total C.  She is amazing.  Happy, calm to the point of sedate, yet eager to run and play.  She has single-handedly taught me that dogs are far more intelligent than we give them credit for.  I swear she can communicate better than my ex wife.  She knows she's not allowed on the couch without the blanket covering the cushions.  She will straight up walk over to the couch, look at the blanket on the floor, then the couch, then me.  If I don't notice, she'll make a slight verbalization, then repeat the three things.  If she wants to go outside, she looks at me, then the door.  She's brilliant.

Majority of this is just simply not true.

If your puppy turns into a  Douche its your training, not the dog.

A dog that has issues at first can absolutely be loved and trained into a great family member. 

Curtis, I'm sorry you don't like dogs, maybe get a cat next.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/12/20 1:15 p.m.

No kids, 3 dogs, 1 cat. 

I personally don't need an animal at home to make me feel loved or whatever. But my girlfriend loves animals, but I've made it clear as the animals move on from this mortal coil, we are having one dog. I don't like that we constantly can't do a lot of things because it means boarding the dogs at $120/night.

AAZCD (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) Dork
10/12/20 1:29 p.m.
Justjim75 said:

I am an expert, really I am.  Big dogs are usually easier to house break than small ones and their bark isn't shrill and piercing.  They also don't require as much exercise, thus better for small apartments.  Smart breeds are harder for new dog owners and if you aren't home much they are a terrible choice, they get bored and create mischief. Dogs with long coats require more maintenance that short ones, dogs that don't shed much need regular haircuts which can be expensive or difficult if they won't hold still. That said, if you have light colored furniture you don't want a black lab.  Speaking of Labs, a Lab mix from the humane shelter is a great starter dog, just know you need to give them plenty of their own things to chew on, and they dig holes.  

Crate train your dog.

CRATE TRAIN YOUR DOG, please.

I think that this is some of the better advice here. There's a lot of good discussion in this thread and I tried not to add to it. But...

Most often dog owners need training more than their dogs.

My son went to the shelter a few months back to 'rescue a dog'. He came home with a puppy and a ~5 year old dog. They did not prepare their house or yard for the dogs. They have a new baby. They have an 8 year old son that freaked out when the puppy 'bit' him while playing. The ~5 year old dog had an incident (bite) at the food bowl with the puppy that required a trip to the vet. The dogs did not have good guidance on their house breaking. Left alone for 4 - 5 hours they made quite a mess. The household already had plenty of stress and the new dogs pushed it to the limit.

The 5 year old dog went back to the shelter within a week. My daughter took the puppy to her one bedroom apartment, then moved to a house with a yard two weeks later.

The puppy is a lab/husky mix. My daughter immediately stopped by my house and picked up our old crate. She crate trained 'Ella' from day one. Every day they give Ella part of their time for play and some activity that reinforced good behavior (training). Now about 6 months old Ella is a big awkward happy ball of muscle and sinew. She is 100% housebroken, has no problem being left alone for a work-day, and follows commands. A great dog for a family. All the credit goes to my daughter and her (not quite married yet) husband.

Having a good dog can take a lot of work and discipline. If you are not ready to commit to that at the start, please do not get a dog.

I have four dogs right now. My maximum population at one time was six. That was a bit crazy, but they came to us, we did not seek them.

TMI already, but a few bullet statements.

Springer Rage is real and my elderly father's dog has it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_syndrome

I have had two great high-bred German Shepherds in my life. Amazing animals. As elderly dogs they both became unpredictable around small children and we had to make the choice. Two of the hardest and saddest days of my life.

I never thought I'd want or care about a little yappy Chihuahua. Nasty little dogs. One day an old, rough Chihuahua showed up in our yard out of nowhere. We kept him for the last three years of his life and are much richer for the memories.

 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/12/20 1:56 p.m.
z31maniac said

Isn't Floating Doc a Veterinarian? 

I forget.  He's either a vet or something to do with the pet food industry.  I think he and I have sparred before on this topic and agreed to disagree.  He does know his stuff, and I respect his take on it, I just disagree.

I don't profess to know as much as he does on the veterinary side of things, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  heheh.  In reality, I was married to a veterinarian for 20 years.  It was she who did the outside-the-lines research that led us to feed raw.  We'll say she was a GRVer

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