Learn me: home schooling

As big of an oxymoron as that is, the wife and I are taking about doing this with our kiddos. Let's examine our situation.

She's currently 4.5 months pregnant, and we're taking about her leaving work and staying with the baby after birth. Currently we have a 4 year old girl, and she may go to preschool this fall. However, my wife and I both really want her to be a stay at home mom, and I wanna hear from those of you here who have done this.

Did it for six months with my two (6th grade). Went easy because we used an online bunch I forget the name of, and the kids found they could finish at their speed, which meant get up at 10am and have it done by 1pm. Went back to regular school in Jr High and didn't miss a beat. MS is an easy state to do this in, however. I've heard other states can be near-horrific in their regulations. Plenty of course curricula to pick from, but a lot is... I don't wanna call it "Fundie Friendly", but you get the idea. Search around on that regard.

Nothing to add, but I will be watching carefully as we are in nearly the same boat. We have a 5 year old, 2 year old and the wife is 7 months pregnant. Yesterday was her first day as a stay at home mom, and she is planning to home school the kiddos.

I'm a public school teacher, so my opinion will likely be biased.

However,

Based on my observation of homeschooled kids re-entering "the system," few transition really well. It is my opinion (and only my opinion) that in the interest of the child, you need to ensure they have SIGNIFICANT social interaction with others. You aren't doing them any favours secluding them away from the evil world during their formative years. Eventually they leave home and can be in for a real shock (had a couple homeschooled friends - brothers - who kinda went berzerk after they left home and went into the world. Probably not the norm, but something I took note of). Socialize them.

I understand there are homeschool groups that arrange social interaction. Look into that.

Speaking for myself, I would not homeschool my own kids. I am by no means talented enough to be "the teacher" for every subject they will take (I'm a damn good shop teacher). Not everybody learns well via "correspondence course" sometimes having a teacher there is a good thing. The "social interaction" thing, as well as "learning how to deal with the morons out there in society" is pretty important in my mind.

The public system ain't perfect, by no means! But there is good crap to be learned in there (outside the classroom).

Gather all the information for and against, and make your best choice for the good of the kid. Then make sure they get socialized, whatever you chose.

I agree fully with SkinnyG.
I'm not a 'real teacher' yet but I'm most of the way through my cert for K-8, and I'm not entirely confident in my ability to hypothetically teach my own hypothetical kids.
(Disclaimer: I've a similar bias towards the school system as skinny.)

Of the people I know who were homeschooled, exactly one is a well adjusted person.
Real easy to turn kids into awkward weirdos via homeschooling.

Wow, calling every homeschooled kid but one a weirdo is harsh! We homeschooled our kids for awhile but they are in public school now. If I could afford private school I would; my biggest beef with public school is that the teacher is expected to deal with all the kids evenly but it just isn't possible. If there is a slow child(who doesnt speak up) or a withdrawn child they appear to let them just "hang" because they HAVE to deal with the trouble makers and the very outgoing students.

Our oldest daughter is very quiet and when we first sent her to school she withdrew further.

Our middle child is SUPER outgoing and she did poorly being homeschooled because she needs the interaction and the opportunities that home school can't offer.

I think different children have different needs and understanding their needs is the most important thing. I should also mention that I went to school to be a teacher but absolutely could not handle what the public schools I student taught in were like.

If you want to pm me any questions I'll try to answer.

The funny thing with how homeschool parents think of their kids is how any parent thinks of their kids (especially if the parents don't have the rational mind to come the conclusion that they themselves might not be the most normal of folks); like they are gods gift to man. The only people that should get to judge the homeschooled are the ones who interact with them outside homeschooling. MostI've met have also been 'different' (here comes the home school brigade to tout how awesome their kids have been doing and how well adjusted they are :p ).

"The answer is flounder..." What does this thread have the potential of ending in?

I asked a similar question a few months ago: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/home-schoolingtogether/62517/page1/

First, I'd PM Paul (SVreX). He'll give you the straight answer and tell you up front he's not selling anything.

After talking to Paul, meeting some local home school families, and attending a home school conference last month, we decided to home school. We live in an awful school district and moving really isn't an option. Private school is impossible. I also have very dim views of the public school system in general regardless of the district. My wife is already a stay-at-home Mom and was previously a private school teacher, so it seemed like an easy decision for us.

The best answer I got was that home schooling was not an education decision, but a lifestyle decision.

(edit) I just took a look at where OP lives. I know we decided to home school because we can be in downtown Atlanta in minutes and have a ridiculous list of options for home school support in our area. You definitely need to talk with Paul about pulling this off in a less metropolitan area.

SkinnyG wrote: It is my opinion (and only my opinion) that in the interest of the child, you need to ensure they have SIGNIFICANT social interaction with others. You aren't doing them any favours secluding them away from the evil world during their formative years.

I will second this statement, from personal observation.

My wife and I both work, and our kids were in day care. As minimally as we could have them there, definitely, but at least in after-school care. One of my sisters (and several of our friends) were of the "nobody but me is going to raise MY kids" camp. In general , my kids were better socialized and more mature than those who were kept at home for the majority of their time.

Certainly, the 6am-to-6pm daycare grind is not good for kids, either. As with all things, there must be balance.

My other sister home-schooled her youngest child. It was a weird situation and I'm not sure why she did it, except that her older kids were marginal public school students at best and she didn't want to go through that process again. Then again, she herself is a weird situation and I'm not sure why she's done a lot of things. I have no idea what that kid is going to do with his life since he is unprepared for anything.

I would not consider her representative of home schooling in any way, but the danger of that outcome is always lurking.

Central MS (where I am) does have several Homeschooling groups, and they do have "field trips" and whatnot where the families get together and hit up museums and the like. Like anything, you get out of it what you put into it. I know several HS kids, some weird some perfectly normal and well adjusted.

As a retired teacher with experience at the middle school and high school levels I have had previously home schooled students who have done extremely well and extremely poorly. IMO there are 3 areas to be concerned about:

1. Socialization: As others have mentioned this is very important and was most evident at the middle school level. High school age students seemed to have fewer problems "fitting in" than younger students.

2. Study Skills/Habits: Some home schooled students had problems with their work habits. In talking with the parents it seemed like those who did the home schooling on a definite schedule every day turned out children with good study skills. One woman whose children did very well told me that she treated home schooling as her full time job.

3. Academic Level Knowledge: This was most evident at the high school level. Some home schooled students had problems when they entered public school in high school because the academic level of their home schooling was not as high as the public school. This happened to my neighbor whose wife home schooled all 4 of their children. They sent their oldest to public school for his junior year to get some of the more advanced courses they did not feel they could handle. They found out that they should have made the transition a couple years sooner. The boy (who was very intelligent) had a tough year of it and ended up needing tutoring to get him up to the level of the other students.

I have no problems with home schooling when it is done right and think that in some cases it is beneficial to the child. But whoever is doing it needs to make it their first priority.

chandlerGTi wrote: my biggest beef with public school is that the teacher is expected to deal with all the kids evenly but it just isn't possible. If there is a slow child(who doesnt speak up) or a withdrawn child they appear to let them just "hang" because they HAVE to deal with the trouble makers and the very outgoing students.

If that is what is happening in your schools it needs to be changed!!

When I taught in middle school we had a grade level team meeting for an hour every day. One day a week that meeting included the Guidance Counselor and the Principal or Vice Principal. Most of that time was spent discussing students and how they were doing. We kept records to insure that each student was discussed at least one a month.

I was home schooled from the 2nd grade till graduation. My parents took my brother and I out of public school due to religious beliefs. Like the others have stated, make sure your kids get plenty of social interaction. We were part of a home schooling group and would go on field trips and do other things with this group at least once a month, even that really wasn't enough interaction though.

My parents are also home schooling my younger siblings who are about 12-14 years younger than me. They don't have this home school group anymore and you can tell the difference it has on them. All of them are pretty socially awkward, and don't have any friends, which is pretty sad. The two older boys have just now started to get into Civil Air Patrol, which is helping out some.

Would I home school my son? If I had the time to devote to him like that I probably would, at least till junior high, it's about that level when I don't feel I would have the tools or experience to fully teach him in all his classes. And I certainly don't feel like I could teach him at a high school level.

<- grew up unschooled.

Not sure what everybody is worried about.

We home-schooled our oldest for 10 years, 2nd child for 7 years, and youngest for 4 years. The 2 oldest are girls, youngest a boy. We stopped because my wife had to go back to work.

We were members of a home-school co-op where we paid for courses that our kids took. In our case all of the "teachers" were college graduates. This was in addition to teaching that my wife did at home. The kids ate lunch together, took field trips, and now have sports teams that compete with other independent schools. In a sense "just like regular schools".

Home-schooling requires a commitment, my wife didn't work and curricula are not inexpensive. You can buy "all inclusive" curricula or you can pick and choose to create your own. Educators will tell you that we all have different learning styles, some are auditory, some visual, and some kinesthetic. My wife was a state certified teacher and my middle child is an elementary education major now, so I learned this from them as well as observing my kids. Home-schooling allows some tayloring to your child's learning style.

Our kids were tested annually for academic performance using the ITBS (Iowa Test of Basic Skills). That was what we used as a measure of their academic progress, the test was administered by a third party so we could not influence the results.

Socialization is the issue most often questioned about home-schooling, whether you home-school, send your kids to public or private-schools, they don't grow up in a bubble. Our kids socialized with other kids of all ages through church and sports activities. There is an unfortunate perception, unfair, that people home-school to isolate their kids, I'm sure some do, just an unfair generalization, and generalizations generally aren't worth a damn. My question is what about bullying, it's going to happen, that's part of socialization too, but we sure don't our kids to give or take it. Aren't gangs a "social" institution?

There are "religious" and "non-religious" curricula available, all you have to do is look for it. A home-school conference is a good place to start, they usually have curricula fairs with vendors set up. You will see some "typical" home-schoolers and some that will shock you.

My kids survived home-schooling, public school, and public colleges. They all three work, gained entrance to their colleges of choice, and have done well academically.

I looked at it this way, we invested by choice in our kids, I don't expect everybody to do it. We had some negative experiences and a lot of positive. It is a decision you have to make together. It forced us to be conscious of learning opportunities.

Home-schooling laws vary by state, so you'll want to check with a state home-schooling association before you start. You'll have to let the local school district know what you're doing as well.

Sorry to ramble and I'm sure I have made some grammatical errors, but that's my 2 cents worth.

slefain wrote: I asked a similar question a few months ago: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/home-schoolingtogether/62517/page1/ First, I'd PM Paul (SVreX). He'll give you the straight answer and tell you up front he's not selling anything. After talking to Paul, meeting some local home school families, and attending a home school conference last month, we decided to home school. We live in an awful school district and moving really isn't an option. Private school is impossible. I also have very dim views of the public school system in general regardless of the district. My wife is already a stay-at-home Mom and was previously a private school teacher, so it seemed like an easy decision for us. The best answer I got was that home schooling was not an education decision, but a lifestyle decision. (edit) I just took a look at where OP lives. I know we decided to home school because we can be in downtown Atlanta in minutes and have a ridiculous list of options for home school support in our area. You definitely need to talk with Paul about pulling this off in a less metropolitan area.

I'm excited things are working out for you!

We've been homeschooling for 19 years. I've also been the president of the local homeschool association, and personally known hundreds of kids who have done it, most with great success.

I have a lot to say, and a great deal of experiences. It's not for everyone, but very rewarding for a lot of people. No one will ever care more about your kids and their education than you will.

Do you have specific questions? It's a pretty broad subject.

I'm pretty tired right now, so I'll avoid saying too much ('cause it won't come out well), but feel free to PM me and I'll be glad to talk with you about it.

I will make one comment though... Socialization is the BEST reason I can think of to homeschool.

As a teacher myself with nephews who are homeschooled, (and being currently enrolled in a Master's program for counseling and therapy) I can offer this.

Public/Private schools have a ton of drawbacks, including personality-forming neuroses and psychoses. Kids are harsh. Anyone who has read a newspaper in the last 10 years has seen countless kids making peer-based decisions that range from over-achieving neurosis to hate-based suicide. Contrast that with home-schooled kids who tend to lack the socialization that is needed for true growth.

The two options are vastly disparate. I think the best path is somewhere in the middle. Since public/private schools don't have that option, its possible the best option is home-schooling with intense social interaction.

I will say this (without intending offense)... The desire to be a "stay-home-mom" is a horrible reason to home-school. I think its the same thing as buying your first welder and claiming to be a master fabricator. The motivation to home-school MUST come from a true desire to do what is best for your children, not what is convenient.

I have seen home-schooled kids who are well-adjusted, educated, and ready to tackle the world... but that probably accounts for less than 10% of them. The other 90% are victims of parents who chose home-schooling for the wrong reason.

My sister and her husband began home-schooling my nephews for [what I consider to be] the wrong reasons. They are very conservative Christians and didn't want their boys to be exposed to things like the myth of dinosaurs, or the horrific possibility of that pesky thing called "science." To their credit, my sister and her husband fully immersed themselves in how to do home-schooling the right way. My nephews are now 9 and 13 and I couldn't be more proud of their approach to life.

Honestly, in my experience the "socialization" issue is a myth, or at least an outlier issue that becomes the topic of every conversation because the only home schoolers that many people know are those that made the news for their oddity or problem, or returned to public school because they failed at home schooling in one form or another.

Very few people have seen a good cross section of hundreds of home schoolers. I have.

I know kids who are odd or socially disconnected as an apparent result of home schooling. I also know kids who are completely disconnected, hateful and neurotic as a result of their public school experiences. But I also know kids who are incredibly gifted students who have been home schooled, going on to complete Masters level studies, Doctors, scientists, etc.

I spend time with both, particularly coaching youth sports. I'd much rather spend time with home schooled students because they basically have a better grasp of who they are and are better at connecting with people of all ages who are different then them. They are also much more respectful, and like to engage subjects, instead of being spoon-fed.

The fallacy is that home schoolers live in a bubble. They do not. Home schoolers live in a world of siblings who are different ages then them, study groups of people working on projects with them, home school associations that look an awful lot like "real" school, adults who are wrestling out the challenges of life, merchants who they interact with daily, and a world view that chooses to find them weird.

Public schoolers, by contrast, live in a world of protection and interact only with little people who are just like them. They live in an age segregated world where there are no tiers above or below them, so they have neither role models (1 step up the ladder) they can aspire to, nor students they can mentor. All groups will have a leader- In a world where everyone is the same, it's not the person with more experience or ability, it's the class clown, the bully, or the diva.

Homeschooling is not a bubble. It is more like a modern day one room schoolhouse, where older students mentor younger ones, students of different ages work together on similar projects at different stages of development, and teachers (and the environment) enable and encourage variation and thinking about problems at multiple levels at the same time.

Yes, there are failures. There are also failures in public schools. With only 2% of the students in the country home schooled, I propose that the likelihood is there are a great many more public school failures. A bad home school teacher gets to screw up a couple of kids. A bad public school teacher gets tenure, so they can screw up as many as they want.

But enough of the negative. I'd much rather focus on the positives of great teachers and educational opportunities in both home school and public school environments.

curtis73 wrote: The motivation to home-school *MUST* come from a true desire to do what is best for your children, not what is convenient.

I agree with this.

At the beginning of each year, my wife and I discuss one question. "What is the best educational experience we can offer our kids this year?" We keep choosing home schooling.

SVreX wrote: Very few people have seen a good cross section of hundreds of home schoolers. I have.

And some might argued you are biased. Just sayin'

SVreX wrote: I know kids who are odd or socially disconnected as an apparent result of home schooling. I also know kids who are completely disconnected, hateful and neurotic as a result of their public school experiences. But I also know kids who are incredibly gifted students who have been home schooled, going on to complete Masters level studies, Doctors, scientists, etc.

And people know hateful and neurotic kids that were homeschooled (I'd like to point out at this time that only 0.2% of Canadian schoolkids are homeschooled).

SVreX wrote: They are also much more respectful, and like to engage subjects, instead of being spoon-fed.

And I find whenever I have encountered them to be either snooty or withdrawn.

SVreX wrote: The fallacy is that home schoolers live in a bubble. They do not. Home schoolers live in a world of siblings who are different ages then them, study groups of people working on projects with them, home school associations that look an awful lot like "real" school, adults who are wrestling out the challenges of life, merchants who they interact with daily, and a world view that chooses to find them weird.

Actually, not to be offensive, but the way you talk about it makes it seem more like a religion or a cult... which is interesting, considering that:

"the most common reason parents gave as the most important was a desire to provide religious or moral instruction (36 percent of students). This reason was followed by a concern about the school environment (such as safety, drugs, or negative peer pressure) (21 percent), dissatisfaction with academic instruction (17 percent), and "other reasons" including family time, finances, travel, and distance (14 percent). Parents of about 7 percent of homeschooled students cited the desire to provide their child with a nontraditional approach to education as the most important reason for homeschooling"

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=91

Most parents are like everyone else on the planet... average. Average intelligence, average desire to excel, average desire to do well by their kids.

SVreX wrote: Public schoolers, by contrast, live in a world of protection and interact only with little people who are just like them. They live in an age segregated world where there are no tiers above or below them, so they have neither role models (1 step up the ladder) they can aspire to, nor students they can mentor.

That's there for specific reasons. Instead of being bullied by a peer, they'd be bullied by someone with superior mental capacity and ability to do damage. Great.

SVreX wrote: Homeschooling is not a bubble. It is more like a modern day one room schoolhouse, where older students mentor younger ones

Um... ok. Unlikely, but ok.

Get them involved with sports, take them to movies, and let them watch tv. I was good friends with a kid who was homeschooled--he played on my hockey team. Very nice guy, got along great, and is adjusting fine now as a young adult in college. But in highschool, when we were in the locker room, there were some embarassing moments for him. Had to ask what a "BJ", "deuschbag", and "joint" were. Didn't understand swears at all, was too "gay" with guys (he is not gay) and didn't understand why we were weirded out, and in general very naive about a lot of things. His mom didn't let him watch tv except in Spanish, and I honestly believe that it harmed him socially. I also don't understand why they did it--he was in a good school district. He graduated high school (or the home school equivelent) at 15, and was in the community college by 16, but I don't think that it helped him out. Certainly didn't hurt him, but he will still be graduating college at the age of 22.

Now that being said, he was able to adjust (thanks to us corrupting him) fairly quickly, and now he is going to be working for the government in an embassy, has a long time girlfriend, and is doing very well, but you could tell that he was very behind in the social aspect of his life.

Before this thread inevitably goes completely off the rails, I'll just point out my own observation that public schools have come a long way since I was a student in the 70s and 80s. My kids are getting a better education under better conditions (social and otherwise) than I did, by a long shot, and they are in the same school district I was.

It's like anything else, you get out of it what you put in. Public school, private school, homeschool, if you are an engaged parent who closely monitors your child's education, they will be more successful.

Tom_Spangler wrote: Before this thread inevitably goes completely off the rails, I'll just point out my own observation that public schools have come a long way since I was a student in the 70s and 80s. My kids are getting a better education under better conditions (social and otherwise) than I did, by a long shot, and they are in the same school district I was.

Might as well throw this on deck now:

My opinion is completely opposite. The schools I went to in the 80s and 90s have gone straight to hell. Crowded class rooms are the norm. Teachers are demoralized and underpaid. Kids are turned into rote memorizing robots with no concern for actual thinking skills. The goal is to get the kid to score well on a standardized test so that the school can get more money. The "social" aspect of public school is a meat grinder that teaches kids that the only important thing in life is to be attractive or popular (or both). Helicopter parents won't dare let the school punish or fairly grade their little snowflake, while little sociopaths with almost no parental interaction find ways to get attention any way they can. Schools are scared to death of being sued for the smallest infraction so they create reams and reams of regulations to deal with all possible circumstances. Heaven forbid if a kid gets hurt and wants a hug to feel better.

Of course, this all varies by area and there are probably still some good school systems out there. But as for my choices for public schooling and my kids, no thanks, I'll take my chances with raising "weird" kids.

slefain wrote: Of course, this all varies by area and there are probably still some good school systems out there. But as for my choices for public schooling and my kids, no thanks, I'll take my chances with raising "weird" kids.

Indeed, and my example was meant to be purely anecdotal. But I wanted to share it because it's the same school district I attended and I've seen major improvements.

I have seen some evidence of "teaching to the test", but overall, it's a lot better. For one thing, there is zero tolerance of bullying. When I was a kid, it was more of a "kids will be kids" thing where the problem needed to become pretty serious before the school would intervene. Also, my kids are learning (and comprehending) subjects much earlier than I did, particularly math. They were doing rudimentary algebra in 4th grade, I didn't touch it until high school. Finally, there are VASTLY more extracurricular and after-school activities. Not just sports, my 6th-grade daughter has done Forensics and "Peer to Peer" (working with special needs kids her own age) in addition to basketball, track, and softball.

It's not all wine and roses, not all teachers are as engaged as we'd like, there have been some questionable decisions by bus drivers, and I don't always see the value in the work the kids are assigned, but overall, I think the school district (Hartland Consolidated, by the way) is doing an excellent job in giving my wife and I some tools to help us raise smart, well-rounded, well-adjusted kids that will be successful adults from both a work and social standpoint.

Again, I'm not by any means saying that public schools are always the best way to go. Every kid is different, every family is different, every school district is different. I'm just trying to counter the perception that some people seem to have that all public schools are crap, because ours certainly isn't.

slefain wrote: The "social" aspect of public school is a meat grinder that teaches kids that the only important thing in life is to be attractive or popular (or both).

You mean like... in REAL LIFE?

Who you know/who likes you always gets you further than what you know.