Learn Me: Land Rovers

We are looking to add a vehicle to the fleet and my wife has zeroed in on Land Rovers. (Oh...pretty! lol)

Our price range is in the $5 to $10k area.

Knowing that, we are willing to travel a bit to find the right one if need be.

What we dont have set is what model makes the most sense for our needs. I want some decent stability/traction controls for safe winter driving down the highway in blizzard conditions.  Vehicle condition and mileage would probably be the next concern. I would prefer a V8 and only require 4 seats. 

We have looked at ads for Discovery II, LR3 and Range Rovers. Any look like viable options. (Not interested in the smallest one). 

What should we look out for? I think the Ford/Jag/Land Rover V8 would be preferred over the older V8 correct? 

I would lean towards newer but can see the attraction to the Disco2 for some simplicity and looks.

Will this be a repeat of my $5 to $10k Audi experience?  Lots of weird electrical issues and independent shop visits? I dont mind working on vehicles, but sometimes you just need a vehicle to work...

We live in the Green Bay area if you know of one for sale.

Best bet in this price range is probably an LR3. The Disco II - especially the later ones - have the 4.6 that has a bunch of known issues (including self-disassembling oil pumps in 2003, sinking cylinder liners and other fun stuff) that I'm currently swearing at in my wife's Range Rover. Disco IIs rot at the back of the frame, Disco Is (which are considered preferable) have frame rot near the front of the frame but have better mechanicals.

The engine you want is the 4.4L Jaguar V8 - you don't want the V6 unless you enjoy being left in the dust by granny on her mobility scooter. The Ford 5.0L in the LR4s and Range Rovers has a few known issues around camchain tensioners (that can lead to "rattle rattle bang <silence>" when not caught early), whereas a well maintained Jaaaaaag V8 will mostly attempt to drink your wallet under the table.

Common issues with LR3s are, from what I could find:

• Air suspension. Make sure it works and doesn't leak down. The bags aren't that expensive if you get them from the UK, but the compressor might also be on the way out but is relatively easy to get at. Pressure tank for the air suspension is under the car and can get damaged if someone tries hard enough. Also if it does a low rider trip pod impression or generally doesn't seem level, the height sensors go out. Make sure you test all ride heights and ideally leave it at the standard height overnight - it should not sink down. If it does, you have a leak in the air suspension.
  You can convert them to coils but from what I heard, this negatively affects the ride quality.
• Front lower and rear upper control arms are consumables due to the weight of the vehicle. There are videos on YouTube showing how you can replace them - it's bit of a pain in the posterior and if you're in the rust belt, will require a sawzall. Usually, you should be able to hear clonking at either end if the bushings are on the way out and the recommendation I've seen from the UK is to go for stock arms rather than try polybushes.
• IIRC rear brake lines rot out and are a pain to replace
• The electric parking brake needs regular maintainance as it likes to seize up. Apparently preferably in the on position and very likely stripping the plastic gears in the actuator magic box. Again, you can get rebuild kits from the UK.
• General used car issues otherwise - keep in mind that the LR3 has both independent front and rear suspension so drive shaft boots can leak and all that. Press all the buttons and make sure everything including all terrain response modes engage.

This is one of those vehicles that you buy based on the previous owner's maintenance history, and you buy the best you can find, but a Tahoe or Expedition it isn't. E36 M3 will break, but at least with the LR3s it usually seems to be something that doesn't prevent you from getting home.

One vehicle you don't want is the mid-2000s Range Rover with the BMW drivetrain. Those will empty your wallet, your family's savings and your children's and grandchildren's future savings. On a Monday, and it all goes downhill from there.

Yeah, I have not been looking at that period Disco/LR3/Range Rover as a potential replacement for my wife's Range Rover, oh noes.

I have a 2006 LR3 with the V6. I like it a lot. Extremely comfortable and roomy and has been quite reliable. I did the compresssor, ($250 ebay rebuild) starter, a ride height sensor and front lower control arms. I paid $8000 100,000 Km ago. The iidgap tool should be considered part of the purchase price. If you have that then there is nothing you cannot fix in your driveway. I avoided the jag engine but most people prefer it. The v6 runs on regular gas and gets slightly better mileage. 

+1 for LR3, relatively low-trouble for a Land Rover, at least the engine will hold together - The V8 from the LR3 is a popular swap into older Land Rovers for that reason. Be warned that it will drink a frightening amount of gas even for a huge SUV with a big engine.

This is exactly what I was hoping to get from you guys. Thanks everyone. Feel free to keep adding to the discussion. It will be a bit before we purchase but it looks like the LR3 might be what we want.

Any comments about the RR without the BMW engine?

You guys don't get the td5 diesel option in the disco 2  in the US do you?  Because that would be the answer  if you could lay hands on one.

I've got a disco 1 with the 300tdi, it's been pretty  good. I like it because it's super simple mechanically, which means less to leave us stranded if we're offroading. That said, the temptation  to jump to a td5 is pretty big, easier to get more power, a more refined engine that isn't as harsh and rattly etc.

The auto transmission in the disco2 can lunch and they're a bit spendy to get sorted. But the manual and the transfer case are solid. Disco 2 probably won't have the manual centre diff locker that came in the disco 1 , but should be able to be retrofitted (if that's important  to you)

The disco 3 is a pretty solid choice, but is a bit of a departure  from the earlier stuff in terms of offroad utility. Don't get me wrong,  they're still very capable, but they just don't seem to be as robust. 

Probably shy away from any of the v8s if you can. They either seem to drink fuel, or money or both.

In reply to daeman :

From my quick research, there are mostly V8s and a few V6s. No diesels and no manuals in the USA.

In reply to RossD :

Ouch, you guys are missing out on the good stuff then. I'm assuming that means you didn't get the tdv6 in the lr3 either?

In reply to RossD :

The only Diesels you see in the US are usually grey import Defenders. 

daeman said:

In reply to RossD :

Ouch, you guys are missing out on the good stuff then. I'm assuming that means you didn't get the tdv6 in the lr3 either?

Nope, US only got the two petrol engines in the LR3. 

BoxheadTim nailed it - the LR3s drive very well, have some niggling issues that you need to be on top of/understand. I have an 07 TDV6 (Lion architecture 2.7 turbo diesel), and love it. It drives better on the road than it has any right to, and is fairly amazing off-road for such a comfortable bus. A Toyota it's not, as far as drive it and forget it reliability, but it drives better in my experience.

I have the IID tool, and recommend it. I also use it to give it a lift (raised all settings about 1"), and use it to allow 2" lift on sand without it automatically dropping at 35mph.
 

Wouldn't the best 4Runner or Land Cruiser you can find in your price range be the best option here?

In reply to RossD :

Run far away from the 4.6 LR. Way too many issues, 0 engine parts. porous blocks, slipped liners, and an oil system so bad that the oil light on at hot idle was normal. I had six warranty take out cores in my shop at one point. Some techs referred to the PDI as more of a kit assembly, the parts were all there, PDI made final fit.

dxman92 said:

Wouldn't the best 4Runner or Land Cruiser you can find in your price range be the best option here?

Good luck finding either of those in his budget. 

Mileage looks higher on both of these but in the price range: 

https://www.732auto.com/details/used-2004-toyota-4runner/81781289

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/d/feasterville-trevose-1999-toyota-land/7418481100.html

In reply to dxman92 :

I've considered both Land Cruiser and 4Runners but my wife is in on the process so she asked for a Land Rover.

That Land Cruiser has a ton of miles but would make my own short list. 

We are a few weeks away from buying anything yet.

In reply to fastoldfart :

I kept running across cheap Disco IIs online and fell into a rabbit hole learning exactly how bad the engines really were. It's amazing how many ways they can fail. The rest of the vehicle wasn't much better either, but I always liked the way they looked.

My only direct experience with Rovers is that as a tow truck operator in the late 90s/early 2000s they helped me pay for my wedding. 

fastoldfart said:

In reply to RossD :

Run far away from the 4.6 LR. Way too many issues, 0 engine parts. porous blocks, slipped liners, and an oil system so bad that the oil light on at hot idle was normal. I had six warranty take out cores in my shop at one point. Some techs referred to the PDI as more of a kit assembly, the parts were all there, PDI made final fit.

Not quite sure what you mean by "0 engine parts"?

I thought pretty much everything you need to rebuild one of these engines is available, although you may have to order the parts from the UK. Which is generally a good money saving idea anyway if you DIY these vehicles.

There are few OEM internals for 4.0, 4.6, eg. no oversize pistons,undersize bearings.

Tooling and rights were sold off by LR in early 2000s.

Liners are really thin on large bore engines limiting rebuilding possibilities.

The earlier 3.5 bore / bearing size engines still seem well supported aftermarket.