Least grassroots car registration question ever asked.

This is so not GRM but you guys know everything.

This is actually really hard to track down info on. I have family property in California, Michigan and Florida. I am looking to buy another V10 R8 or a 650S. ~180-210K give or take to buy.

If I title it and register it in California is darn near 20-25K USD for the tax. If I title it in Michigan its next to nothing. I live predominantly in California, state of filing, and have no problem paying the registration fees on the car. The taxes are a bit of a hit. Especially if I go with the 650S and I don;t like it in the long run and want to sell it.

Is it legal to title/register it in a state that I own property then move the registration to the state that I am currently using as my state of residence. I have no trouble having the car shipped to Michigan having it titled then driving it out to California next time I am there and the sun is out.

Legally as I understand it I can buy a car in say Florida and keep it in Florida at the residence and pay state like everybody else. Its once I want to move it somewhere else that things get tricky and if I owe sales tax to California.

FYI the DMV and AAA were not that helpful in this regard.

A lot of folks will buy a P.O. Box in Montana and register the vehicle there....might be worth looking into.

I don't "think" that there is anything illegal about what you are planning. It would be basically the same as if you bought the car in Michigan and then decided to move it to CA. That is legal. It is already yours so you wouldn't have to pay sales tax on it, just property tax. With that said, I know that CA is really weird about this type of stuff so we will see what some people local to you have to say.

I would think as soon as you move it to California you would need to pay tax on it there. In this case you would pay use tax and you would have the previously paid sales tax as a credit to offset the use tax.

What's stopping you from keeping it registered in MI/FL and just driving it in CA? Seems like if they wanted to bust you they could....i'm just not sure how they would. Maybe insurance fraud?

IL has provisions on the title and plates application for you to say that you owned the car in another state (rather than buying in IL). If you can prove it (basically the title from the other state assigned to you), then you do not have to pay sales tax in IL.

Dunno about CA but I bet it is similar.

Enyar wrote: I would think as soon as you move it to California you would need to pay tax on it there. In this case you would pay use tax and you would have the previously paid sales tax as a credit to offset the use tax. What's stopping you from keeping it registered in MI/FL and just driving it in CA? Seems like if they wanted to bust you they could....i'm just not sure how they would. Maybe insurance fraud?

Not insurance fraud if you have it insured in the place you use it. For instance, our car was registered in a Chicago suburb where my FIL lives (he owned the car), but insured in Peoria where we lived.

I'd say that the easy answer here is to move to Michigan or Florida. But that is just me.

This is one of those "consult your attorney" type of questions. Of course, he may then get the opportunity to bill you by the hour to defend any decision you make in court... The "P.O. Box in Montana" type of schemes referenced above are not unheard of, but I'd be surprised if things went your way if anyone ever calls you on it.

I would title and register it in florida. No inspections. I still have all my cars registered in mn, and i moved to kissimmee 3 months ago. No one is going to ask questions if you can claim residency somewhere else. Just look at all the boats registered out of the caymans....same deal really.

Michigan doesn't have inspection either. My other house is in Michigan so I'm all ears about this question.

Yeah, this is definitely a question for your tax person and/or attorney.

I suspect that the answer may involve buying it in MI, leaving it there, and not bringing it into CA for at least 6-12 months.

The CA DMV considers that any car owed primarily in CA must have CA registration (with exceptions for military and the like), so registering it in MI to avoid the annual 2% VLF and then keeping it at your house in CA is risky.

Just so we are clear I want to move it to California and pay California registration and get plates just like I would on any other car. I think living here that is more then fair. 20K sales tax on a used car where they have collected it before is a little beyond the pale. Especially after they jacked up all the rules regarding small dealerships here so that it is no longer tenable to just sell exotics. IE if I want to buy one for say 3-4 months to flip I now have to have a physical leased or owned location that is not a home, bathrooms, pass the ADA requirements and carry a monster of a bond. Tons of other small stuff like venting as well.

The LCC allows for you to use Montana plates in California beyond the 3 month limit as the LCC owns the car and it is in Michigan so that passes the smell test. The problem with those rules is California can just ignore Michigan LCC laws and apply there own, which they have done in the past.

mazdeuce wrote: Michigan doesn't have inspection either. My other house is in Michigan so I'm all ears about this question.

Ohio only has emissions testing in some counties. Some people have registered cars to addresses in non-emissions counties while living in emissions counties.

I kinda-sorta did this when I bought a previously desmogged car, but to my credit I actually WAS living down there, or at least officially I was living with my parents down there... but as soon as I got a job up here where emissions has to happen, I changed the registration, and jumped through some hoops to limp a desmogged, carbureted rotary through a sniffer test. (I'm still awestruck that it worked, and worked better than a 100% stock car)

Ohio also has some rather interesting tax breaks for motorsports, basically you can get a refund on any sales tax paid for a racing team (the way I read the law, this is if the racing is for money or a hobby) so I have had occasional Visions of forming an LLC for my rallycrossing and basing it out of Columbus, with the cars registered to the LLC. No emissions testing AND potentially save money to boot.

It's a use tax question:

"Vehicles purchased out-of-state —12-month test: A vehicle not used in interstate or foreign commerce and brought into the state within 12 months after its out-of-state purchase is rebuttably presumed to be acquired for in-state consumption. This rebuttable presumption applies under any of the following circumstances: (1) a California resident (see below) purchased the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is subject to registration under state law during the first 12 months of ownership; or (3) the vehicle is used or stored in-state more than half the time during the first 12 months of ownership, when purchased by a nonresident of California. [Cal. Rev. & Tax. Cd. §6248(a); Cal. Code Regs.18 §1620(b)(5)(A)]"

wearymicrobe wrote: 20K sales tax on a used car where they have collected it before is a little beyond the pale.

Why?

I don't know much about California other than it's the banana on the left end of the map, so I'm guessing given the figures you posted there is a 10% sales tax. What's the tax on a house? Is it wrong if the tax is applied to a "used house"? If you buy a second-hand rifle at a gun shop, do they not charge sales tax on that? How about a $5 shirt at a thrift store?

My brother registers all his stuff to his Alaska address. He is a legal AK resident, but hardly ever leaves the airport when he's there. He has AK plated vehicles stashed in several lower 48 states, and possibly 1 other country as well.

Low taxes, low fees, low insurance and no inspection.

If that is the case I might be better off leasing it in state under a in state LCC and paying tax on only the depreciation. I can structure that any way I want but I pay a solid 5-6% on the money for the two years that I do the lease. So about 10K total for the two years.

In Massachusetts if you register a car here you pay sales tax on it. Even if you already own it and registered it some other place. I am guessing but I would assume California is the same.

California definitely has a law about out of state cars. I think it's 30 days. A friend of mine used to register a few of his cars in Illinois, but gave it up eventually.

It could work, but if you drive the car enough and a cop notices you might get nailed. A car that attracts attention might make this issue worse.

BTW CA did get sued a few years back for the fee it charged for out of state registrations.

Knurled wrote:

wearymicrobe wrote: 20K sales tax on a used car where they have collected it before is a little beyond the pale.

Why? I don't know much about California other than it's the banana on the left end of the map, so I'm guessing given the figures you posted there is a 10% sales tax. What's the tax on a house? Is it wrong if the tax is applied to a "used house"? If you buy a second-hand rifle at a gun shop, do they not charge sales tax on that? How about a $5 shirt at a thrift store?

Vehicles are almost unique as things that you effectively pay sales tax on when you buy a used one from a private party in California. (I think high-value luxury goods like art and jewelry might be as well, but I'm not sure -- it hasn't come up for me, somehow :-) )

You don't pay sales tax on houses. (There's a transfer fee, but it's WAY less than 10%.) You pay sales tax if you buy used books or CDs from a store, but not if you buy them from a friend.

For me I'd like to keep a car in Michigan but I live in Texas where I need a physical inspection to have it registered which would require bringing it back and forth 1400 miles which defeats the purpose of keeping it in Michigan in the first place.
I suppose I need to have a talk at the Secretary of State's office when I'm up there next.

aircooled wrote: BTW CA did get sued a few years back for the fee it charged for out of state registrations.

That was the "smog impact fee" for bringing a non-CA emissions car into the state.

mazdeuce wrote: For me I'd like to keep a car in Michigan but I live in Texas where I need a physical inspection to have it registered which would require bringing it back and forth 1400 miles which defeats the purpose of keeping it in Michigan in the first place. I suppose I need to have a talk at the Secretary of State's office when I'm up there next.

In your case, id go ahead and register it in michigan. Leave ot there and all.

aircooled wrote: It could work, but if you drive the car enough and a cop notices you might get nailed. A car that attracts attention might make this issue worse.

Bright orange convertible supercar with Michigan plates I will get pulled over in like two seconds.

Having said that the LCC thing may actually work and allow me to go back to being a dealer in a very very very convoluted but legal fashion.

codrus wrote: You pay sales tax if you buy used books or CDs from a store, but not if you buy them from a friend.

Only because CA hasn't figured out how to register used books or CDs. Give it time.

I don't have anything constructive to add but I think I'd like to be wearymicrobe when I grow up.