mtn wrote: On Costco vs. Sams club: Costco wins every time. Not even a contest, its just better. Cleaner, better products, etc. etc.
You want me to pay how much for the privilege of shopping in your store? I don't think so.
The people of walmart thing could have been shot anywhere. You have a lot of people that could fill those boots.
Zomby woof wrote:mtn wrote: On Costco vs. Sams club: Costco wins every time. Not even a contest, its just better. Cleaner, better products, etc. etc.You want me to pay how much for the privilege of shopping in your store? I don't think so.
Eh, not going to argue with you, I'll just make my point and stop posting on it: We save enough on gas, tires (all seasons), and dog food to more than make up for it when compared to your normal Target/Walmart/Grocery. The quality of their products (Kirkland) is more than enough to make up the difference in the price between Sams Club and Costco. YMMV. It also helps that it is on the way home from work for Dad and my brothers and I.
EDIT: Oh, and this is talking without any research... But you get 2% back on all purchases if you buy the executive membership. At $50 more, that means that you'd have to buy $2500 to make up for it. Going once every two weeks, spending at least $100, that could be a good deal as well. We don't have it, but I was thinking about it the last time we were there.
I've had memberships to Costco, BJ's Wholesale, and Sam's. Unfortunately, Sam's is where I am now, because they have the most convenient location. The others are pretty much across town. Sam's sucks a root next to the other two. Costco stands above both their competitors.
On the issue of a membership, if you buy one set of tires, you have easily paid for your membership with the savings.
Unless you are excellent at buying things on sale at other stores, you will save money if you buy stuff like baby formula, diapers, toilet paper, paper towels, milk, eggs, butter, orange juice, small appliances, computers, and did I mention tires?
I've been a member of one wholesale club or another for nearly 20 years. Costco is easily the best.
I wish we had a Costco locally. Better product selection, better service, and the 100% no questions asked return it any time policy kicks ass. I'm stuck with a BJs Wholesale - at least I save money on their gas and propane. FWIW I've never found their tire prices to be competitive with the local chains and definitely not with TireRack.
The main problem I have with Wal-Mart is the way they treat their employees. They are basically treated as slaves. They will cut their hours by 1 so they're not eligible for full time benefits. They show their employees hoe to apply for welfare, medicaid, etc. in their hiring phase. I know that for a fact because my co-worker's daughter was working there and that was part of their training. They pay the minimum wage, work them the maximum hours to give them nothing. Pretty crappy place to work too. There are numerous sites about this on teh webz.
In reply to Conquest351:
Yet every time a community opens a Wal-Mart they are flooded with applicants.
In reply to Conquest351:
I agree completely, but reducing hours to save on benefits is an old trick perfected by small businesses. Another trick is treating full time employees as contractors. Small businesses are often much worse in this regard because generally there is an owner, one dude who gets to put a dollar in his pocket every time he screws an employee out of a dollar. I think in this regard, big businesses are often much better for employees (apparently WalMart excepted).
Cone_Junky wrote: Reasons other than what I mentioned? Quality products, excellent service, great prices, they use local vendors when possible, and pay their employees well. Also, if you shop there regularly the Executive Membership literally pays for itself (2% back on all purchases). Also the President/CEO personally capped his salary at something like $300K. There isn't as huge of a gap between corporate/management/employee wages like most corporations.
I agree with you on everything except the executive membership. I've had the executive membership. I got it because I had one purchase that on the basis of it alone it should have just about paid for my membership, but at the end of the year, even after another 6 months of shopping I still didn't get a rebate large enough to pay for the membership. It seems the fine print excludes many items from inclusion in the 2% back. They have a dedicated ANNOYER (at least that's what I call her) at my store who is paid to jump on anyone who doesn't have an executive card. After hitting me up several times and having me making a big scene about how it wasn't worth the money she actually went over and checked out my account and realized I spoke the truth and she quit being quite so diligent in her efforts. Now they put a frowny face on the back of people's regular cards once they've spoken to them once about the executive card.
But with that said I LOVE Costco so much better than Sams. Costco has larger aisles.
Costco has wider parking spaces which makes it so much better for parking my big ol truck and I can take my fancier cars there too and not feel worried about door dings.
They consistently have cheaper gas than Sams, especially my beloved Premium which is required on a couple of my cars. I can usually save $ .10 a gallon the cost of Premium vs. everywhere else.
Consumers Reports always rates Costco's house brands at the very top. I've only found a couple of the house brands that aren't better than the equivalent name brand.
Costco's in-house food, except for hot dogs (see below), are far better than Sams. Costco has take home meals made right there in the store which are better than most restaurants. They have a meatloaf and mashed potato dish that's great. They used to do a Southwest Salad that was fabulous but we can't get them to make it anymore.
The baked goods at Costco are not quite homemade but much better than Sams. Everything Sams bakes is a lot drier and less flavorable. Costco has a wonderful homemade style, deep dish apple pie. Even Costco's cookies are better than Sams.
Costco doesn't keep a stable inventory which is both good and bad. For just shopping it makes it more fun because it's an adventure and you don't know what you'll find, but for a small business owner that means they may not have one of your staples. A friend of mine who owns a pizza joint has to shop Sams because Costco doesn't stock his mushrooms year round.
Sams has a better lunch deal. You can get a huge slice of pizza and a large drink for $2.50. Sams also has an oversized Nathan's hot dog and large drink for $1.50. We sometimes go to Sams just for lunch. Costco doesn't have a similar deal on any of their foods and in the past 2 years they've changed from Hebrew National brand of hot dog, which are better than Nathans, and went to a house brand which is HORRIBLE. I had to buy a couple of hundred hot dogs for a party last year and I went label shopping on hot dogs and found the Costco brand was the absolutely worst one nutritionally wise. And the flavor's not very good either.
The 2 biggest drawbacks with Costco I see are that they only take American Express and they don't have an express line. You say Sams doesn't have an express line either? But Sams tries to keep the lines shorter than 3 people in line. When asked recently about the long lines at Costco the head of Costco said he'd never put in an express line or try to shorten the lines to 3 or less because he felt it made people buy more. NO, Mr. Head of Costco, it makes people who need just a few things shop elsewhere so you actually lose money.
Conquest351 wrote: They show their employees hoe to apply for welfare, medicaid, etc. in their hiring phase. I know that for a fact because my co-worker's daughter was working there and that was part of their training.
Any free-market guys that get really upset about anything tax-related might want to read that again.
There is a hidden price for those ultra-cheap products.
Matt B wrote:Conquest351 wrote: They show their employees hoe to apply for welfare, medicaid, etc. in their hiring phase. I know that for a fact because my co-worker's daughter was working there and that was part of their training.Any free-market guys that get really upset about anything tax-related might want to read that again. There is a hidden price for those ultra-cheap products.
Let me be the devil's advocate on this one. I DON'T CARE! All I care about is getting the best price. That's a personal problem for the people that work there.
Now I've said it and I feel so much better.
I also don't care that the waiter/waitress has made a crappy employment contract and is getting paid minimum wage. I paid for my food and if you don't have a buffet line so that I can get my own, then I've paid to get it to my table. Don't expect a tip for just doing your job. Now exceed the minimum standards and I'll tip handsomely.
I was employed at a small performance shop in Austin for about 5 years. The owner is one of the nicest people in the world. We were pretty small and didn't have a lot of capital, but we did have extremely dedicated employees. We went through some tough times and had 4 credit card charges that were fraud and instantly pulled from our account. (Yes, I know there was a problem with the accounting and it was later solved.) Anyway, the point is, he couldn't pay us our salaries for 3 weeks. Rent was due as were bills for some of us. He cut checks from his own pocket to cover that stuff, and then later we got our back pay.
There are some people who treat a business like a family and there are some that will slit thr throats of their workers over 1% profit. I believe that if you run a business you need to keep your customers and employees happy. Success is easy if that's attained.
carguy123 wrote: Let me be the devil's advocate on this one. I DON'T CARE! All I care about is getting the best price. That's a personal problem for the people that work there. Now I've said it and I feel so much better. I also don't care that the waiter/waitress has made a crappy employment contract and is getting paid minimum wage. I paid for my food and if you don't have a buffet line so that I can get my own, then I've paid to get it to my table. Don't expect a tip for just doing your job. Now exceed the minimum standards and I'll tip handsomely.
My point wasn't that you should feel bad for all the poor Walmart workers. It was you might feel worse about your tax dollars being spent to support Walmart's business practices.
In a sense, you're subsidizing the "cheap" products they sell.
Matt B wrote:carguy123 wrote: Let me be the devil's advocate on this one. I DON'T CARE! All I care about is getting the best price. That's a personal problem for the people that work there. Now I've said it and I feel so much better. I also don't care that the waiter/waitress has made a crappy employment contract and is getting paid minimum wage. I paid for my food and if you don't have a buffet line so that I can get my own, then I've paid to get it to my table. Don't expect a tip for just doing your job. Now exceed the minimum standards and I'll tip handsomely.My point wasn't that you should feel bad for all the poor Walmart workers. It was you might feel worse about your tax dollars being spent to support Walmart's business practices. In a sense, you're subsidizing the "cheap" products they sell.
My tax dollars subsidizing Walmart? I don't get it. Do you mean that they hire people who are on welfare?
In reply to Matt B:
Does that mean we should shop there to recoup our savings?
carguy123 wrote:Matt B wrote:My tax dollars subsidizing Walmart? I don't get it. Do you mean that they hire people who are on welfare?carguy123 wrote: Let me be the devil's advocate on this one. I DON'T CARE! All I care about is getting the best price. That's a personal problem for the people that work there. Now I've said it and I feel so much better. I also don't care that the waiter/waitress has made a crappy employment contract and is getting paid minimum wage. I paid for my food and if you don't have a buffet line so that I can get my own, then I've paid to get it to my table. Don't expect a tip for just doing your job. Now exceed the minimum standards and I'll tip handsomely.My point wasn't that you should feel bad for all the poor Walmart workers. It was you might feel worse about your tax dollars being spent to support Walmart's business practices. In a sense, you're subsidizing the "cheap" products they sell.
NO, they hire people and pay them so little that they have to be on welfare to survive. Minimum wage doesn't pay you near enough to survive in the real world. It will put some change in the pocket of a 16 year old still living with mom & pop though.
MrJoshua wrote: In reply to Conquest351: Yet every time a community opens a Wal-Mart they are flooded with applicants.
You need to watch this.. http://www.walmartmovie.com/
While it has an agenda, and you want to smack around the morons who sit there endlessly and complain about how little they get paid... That movie exposes tons of shady stuff the company does... They've paid settlements to not have to actually admit wrongdoing, but.. Sometimes.. they get busted. http://www.wisconsin.edu/tfunds/walmart1204a.htm
And yet I still shop there.. I told my friend once.. "The only thing I hate more than shopping at Walmart is not shopping at Walmart."
carguy123 wrote: My tax dollars subsidizing Walmart? I don't get it. Do you mean that they hire people who are on welfare?
They get tons of tax breaks to build stores in certain areas. There have been cases where they have been given tons of tax credits from a particular town, built a store, but then turned around and built a store in a neighboring town because that town just offered more tax $.
carguy123 wrote:Matt B wrote: My point wasn't that you should feel bad for all the poor Walmart workers. It was you might feel worse about your tax dollars being spent to support Walmart's business practices. In a sense, you're subsidizing the "cheap" products they sell.My tax dollars subsidizing Walmart? I don't get it. Do you mean that they hire people who are on welfare?
I think Conquest may have explained it in his last post, but I'll put his previous one here again for convenience.
Conquest351 wrote: They show their employees hoe to apply for welfare, medicaid, etc. in their hiring phase. I know that for a fact because my co-worker's daughter was working there and that was part of their training.
If they weren't on Welfare before they were working at Wally world, they're at least trained to do it now.
I wasn't even getting into the whole tax credit thing, but there's another can of worms for you.
WalMart is working the system for maximum profitability for their shareholders. I don't always like it, but it is kind of the American way.
I can spell better than him, but he writed waaaay better than me.
Tax credits to build in a certain neighborhood or city? Horrible! Oh wait, just about every large business gets those same tax credits. It's good business on the parts of the communities because now they have a long term income stream and job market for their citizens.
Tennessee gave some humongous tax credits to get the car companies down there.
All that is unlike the money Coca Cola pays companies, schools, etc. to NOT carry any other brand. The school district near us got $1M to put coke products exclusively in the schools. Coke tries to buy the market.
I shop at Wally World all the time. I also try to shop at the local places. There's a time and a place for both. When I need multiple types of items I shop at Wally cause I can make one trip.
If I'm in a hurry or just need grocery items I go to a local store.
I too decry the change from the original bastion of American emphasis to mostly chinese products but it gets tougher and tougher to buy American due to diminishing supply of American products, improvement in chinese products and cost of the American products.
Otto Maddox wrote: WalMart is working the system for maximum profitability for their shareholders. I don't always like it, but it is kind of the American way.
He's right.
It's not a walmart problem, it's a government problem.
BTW, our local walmarts sell quite a bit of stuff that's made in Canada.
The problem isn't the tax-credits themselves. It's the dishonest way in which they are negotiated.
Also, there's a not-so-fine line between "working the system" and unethical business practices. If that's the American way, then it's not surprising were in a bad situation now.
Honestly, I would think that the long-term draw on our taxes and government healthcare fund would piss off more fair-tax/libertarian/tea-party folks, but mostly I see a lot people who just see business doing what business does and the consequences be damned.
I'd like to add that I don't have a problem with big business as a concept. As has been mentioned, there are plenty of the little guys who are scum-sucking dirtbags as well. The problem is that when big business is unethical, the damage is far more widespread. I'm also not supporting some government regulation of Wally world. I'm not an economist, but the problems that exist seem to be a two way street between the corporation and the communities that support them. The difference is that one entity is entirely aware of what it is doing and the other is not. Unwashed masses and all that. As someone suggested before though, I guess that's their problem. Errr, our problem. Errr, crap.
Otto Maddox wrote: WalMart is working the system for maximum profitability for their shareholders. I don't always like it, but it is kind of the American way.
100% agree. Sure they break the law left and right, but hey.. They do have good returns.
carguy123 wrote: Tax credits to build in a certain neighborhood or city? Horrible! Oh wait, just about every large business gets those same tax credits. It's good business on the parts of the communities because now they have a long term income stream and job market for their citizens.
I agree, but Walmart likes to take the money, build a store and run to the next town. Or... If the town doesn't pony up with big enough tax incentives, they move just outside the city limits so the city doesn't get the tax revenue from the sales.
Illegal? no. On the borders of Unethical.. Yup.
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