Life Advice from Racers

Hi everyone,

This is probably a pretty odd post but I thought Id give it a shot because I think it's a group of people in the specific category of people I admire. Many here have found a way to support racing or auto restoration/modification financially, which isnt easy, and also have enough free time to enjoy it.

I know I'm a new member, but I've been visiting and years ago even had a subscription. For car credibility, I've worked on cars inside and out, worked on a NASCAR West Grand National team, owned karts, and helped MANY people on the side of the road (it feels good to give something that comes so easy to you). So please take a few minutes to read and respond if possible from one car guy to another.

Background: I'm now 27, graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree from UC Berkeley (just barely), but ended up not doing anything with it. After college at 22, I left with a girl to a town where she got into medical school, and started my own small car dealership without actually having ever stepped foot into a real dealership even to buy a car. I actually did 'Ok' somehow.

At 24, after the implosion of that relationship, I moved back to the San Francisco Bay Area and randomly stepped into a real car dealership and was offered a job. Instantly I was the best salesperson there.

Fast forward a year later, and now 3 years later, and I was in the top 10 nationwide for sales for a luxury German brand (out of 2000+ salespeople). I worked 7 days a week every week, 12 hours a day, for about 2 years without a day off other than Christmas and Thanksgiving. I averaged $17.5k a month for the entire period. I saved virtually every dollar I made, because how do you spend money when you work everyday? I rented a cheap room in a house, which I only walked into to sleep. I spent more time with my local dry cleaner than the housemates at that place. I saved $200k in the bank in about 2.5 years.

Then randomly in February, management chopped my pay plan by about $30k a year, and I walked out. Even after they offered to meet in the middle, I was too energized by the thought of free time, a new field, and a long desired vacation to Asia and Poland (I was born in Poland and moved to the US at 3yrs old).

So I left, and flew out a few days later for a 2 month vacation. It was interesting. But being 'free' wasn't as amazing as I imagined.

I've been back for 3 weeks now, and taking care of random odds and ends that develop in your life after ignoring it for 2-3 years. More realization that ‘free time’ doesn't really feel all that great either.

I know that I need to return to the workforce soon, but I can not for the life of me figure out what to really do with my life. I feel like I blew it somewhere. Working in luxury car sales, you see a lot of credit applications. And of course you see people extending themselves to buy the car. But then you also see the people making $30k+ a month all the way to just ridiculous levels a year. And I somehow can't figure out how to do that. I can't imagine what it would take to develop into that kind of person, and have the skills to manage a business that size, to make that kind of money, and have atleast 1 day off a week.

Every job I look at, other than some sales talent I have to offer, is a long ways off from what I had even in car sales. While Im sure Medical Device salespeople make more than $200k, you can’t just step into that like you can car sales. They're all specialized on a subject that I'm not really an expert on and honestly not passionate about. I've seen how car salespeople miss sales by not being passionate experts in cars like I am, and I don't want to be that guy in some other industry.

I look at certain business opportunities, to start or to buy, but I've read enough business books to know that having just one skill set of a business is in no way a sign that you have the others. And I know how much I lack in certain key areas where I personally question my ability to grow a business through the stage when the owner is responsible for wearing many hats. I don't have the funds to skip that stage when the owner does almost everything.

So now, this sad notion of "Well, maybe youre meant for the car business" is stuck in my head. I know that if I made a long term commitment to it, I could step up my performance even more and probably make $250k a year.

But then I am resigning myself to a life of crazy hours, in exchange for what I suppose you can call 'good money' (if you ignore what many corporate professionals, doctors, lawyers, successful business owners make), yet never really being able to enjoy the time do get into motorsports, dirtbikes, standup jetskiing, travel, and many other things. And I'm completely ignoring the issue of raising a family because for good or bad I'm not interested in that at all at this point.

I know this is going to sound like a pity-party of some sorts because I know I don’t actually have any real problem at all, I get that... But I really want to figure out how to do more if possible, or maybe for someone to explain that I’m already doing a lot for how disfunctional I seem to be. Who knows.

I'm asking for some life advice from people that somehow won the battle with work and life mix. I read a few posts here about racing costing people $30k+ a season and obviously many times even WAY more. And while I could afford that lower end budget if you ignore the time off, I feel like I would have to earn so much more to justify and enjoy spending $30k+ on pure pleasure. And as of right now I just don't know how to do that.

If you were me, would you stick with the craziness of 80+ hours a week to make $200k+, start a business instead, buy a business, resign to $100k instead and just enjoy some free time, or would you tell me to stop complaining and figure out how to sell more and make 250k? I just don't know the point of it sometimes.

I think I may have lost some focus on this crazy long post. So I'm going to end now, see if anyone even replies, and maybe add later.

Thank you to anyone that took this thing seriously. I greatly appreciate it.

Well, here's a thought from the restoration end of things.

If you're that good at auto sales and have a passion for the business, when not be an auto broker. Start your own business dealing in classics or pedigreed race cars.

There's always a market for them and the value stays pretty consistent on the cars.

If you've got that kind of drive, use it. Take it easy later.

These are a couple examples: http://www.hymanltd.com/ http://www.platinumclassics.com/

One of the cars I'm in the middle of restoration on came from Platinum.

There's some good deals to be had on eBay at the moment if you're looking to buy and get started in the business. There was an Auburn 8, fully restored by LMC motors going for about $125,000 which was a hell of a buy, you couldn't do the resto work for that price and it was very nicely done.

You should be able to flip that car for at least double but you'll have to sit on it until a buyer comes along.

When full classics trade hands, it's not like you open the paper and go hunting. Instead, you start phoning around and letting people know you're in the market. You could be one of those people taking the call.

It took us about a year to find the Duesenberg for our customer.

Alternately, have you considered buying and exporting American cars?

I'm from Canada and lots of folks are heading south for good deals on cars. Lots of people are letting their toys go for a really good price right now. There's a good market in other countries for good quality american cars from the '50s, '60s and '70s

Think GTO, 'Cuda, Mustang, etc..

Good luck in whatever you choose.

Shawn

One thing Trans Maro didn't address (and TM, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but I'm betting the kind of people who trade in the high-end collector market aren't exactly borrowing money to do it, either. Would you feel better emotionally if you didn't see people overextending themselves?

Seems like you'd be a natural once you got into the "network" and learned the ropes.

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

I have to admit that seeing people go over their heads doesn't really bother me, because they honestly seem really happy doing it. Banks being as conservative as they are these days, you can't actually go too far over your head even if you wanted to.

Heck, every now and then a 20 year old 'kid' making $2500 a month would walk in and buy a tradein Honda S2000 for $14k, tell me how he borrowed $300 from his coworker to come up with the $2000 down payment, and drive off with his $200 a month payment nice S2000. I would be jealous of that kid, driving away with the biggest smile on his face, oblivious to the BS that goes through my head as I tell myself why I should keep driving my 311k mile (no joke) 00 Silverado Z71 because the sales tax on a cooler car is more than I'll ever spend to keep this thing alive. I admire people that can just take a swing and enjoy it. I just cant do it somehow.

If I were in your position, here is what I would do:

Go back to where you can make the ridiculous money. Do it for a few more years (maybe 3) and get your retirement set up well. Then go into something you will enjoy and have more of a life. Maybe do it an extra year, and save almost all of that money and just say "this is going to be my income for the next 3 years as a start a new career". You could literally start in a complete entry level position and work your way back up.

Oh, FWIW... I'm an extremely frugal 22 year old about to graduate college in a week, degree in Math/business/economics and probably going to use it. One offer on the table with a good company, pay is on the low end of the scale but I think that the advancement opportunities are good and it is geographically a place I'd like to be.

I'm hoping to be offered another job with a similar company with the pay that is off the charts. We'll see; my fingers are crossed but I don't think I'll be getting it.

Oh, one other thought... You might want to look into autocrossing a Miata or an Integra type R... Polish people seem to do well in them

What would make you happiest? What do you want to do? Find a way to make that happen.

I'm one of those guys that would not work crazy long hours, no matter how much you paid me. My work/life balance is definitely going to be less money/more life than your's. I decided my path was to become a professional brewer. I took a chance and am now nearing the end of a training program in Germany. If I ever find myself working 80hours/week, it will be because I'm starting my own brewery.

Sounds to me like working those long hours isn't making you happy. You need to at least adjust it. Could you work at the same job, but cut your time down to 40 hours a week and still make $100k? Sure you won't be one of the "top 10" in your company, but you'd probably be a lot happier.

Or if you've got $200k in the bank, why not budget to stretch that out for 3 years? Take 6-12 months to do some soul searching and figure out what you want to do. Spend the next 2 years making it happen. Yeah, maybe you spend a couple months feeling stir crazy because you're not doing anything, but ride it through long enough to the point where you realize what you want to do.

As for money to spec race, it does not take $30k/year if you don't want it to. I raced 944Spec, and someone did spreadsheet breaking down the total cost of a race weekend to being about $600 (including consumables, and estimated repairs for a year). There are a lot of cars/series that will be comparably low in cost. It's not hard to pick up a prepped race car for <$15k. I wasn't able to hit every race in a season, but I managed to get out and race when I was making less than $30k/year. It took sacrifices, but that's what I wanted to do, so I made it happen.

Figure out what you want to do. Make it happen. Following your passions takes sacrifice. If it actually matters enough to you, suck it up and do it.

Being a 47 year old curmudgeon, I'll offer my observations and reactions to your eloquent post.

First, you're young. I admire that you are planning ahead (few do), but in a way I think you are obsessing a bit too much on making some grand Life Decision at your age. I've changed jobs more times than I have fingers, hopefully bettering my station in life each time. You need not select one and be stuck with it.

Second reaction: you are viewing your dilemma as "all or nothing". You either think you have to work 80 hrs a week and make 200k or have a 'normal' job like the rest of us slackers and make peanuts. You view these two extremes as being unsatisfying for opposing reasons (time vs money). This tells me you need to find something in the middle; you know, where some of us mere mortals live.

Okay, so how do I live life? Household income (2 people who don't live extravagantly and have zero kidlets) is around 100k. I race a cheap, old BMW in a spec series so I can spend more time making the driver better instead of flushing money into the car. I've got the Mini as a toy, a motorcycle to wash away weekday stress, and a vintage pickup as a tow vehicle. That's all the toys I can handle; any more, and my ability to take care of all of them diminishes unless I start paying people. I enjoy doing my own work, but if you don't, then this approach may not be for you.

I've learned, as my hairline recedes and changes to a lighter color, that the acquisition of 'stuff' is far less important than having life experiences. I put off becoming a racer for several years, even though I could afford it, because of a bunch of little, pathetic excuses (most being attributed to laziness). However, watching a few of my friends die from various maladies has taught me that this is a one time ride on the life express, and I'd better enjoy what it has to offer while I can. More vacations, more racing, more interactive pasttimes instead of buying more stuff. My income level is sufficient for this. I don't need the newest, brightest, most expensive anything. I just need stuff that gets the job done reliably.

So, if I were you, knowing what I do now...I'd open my own car lot or classic brokerage (that was a good idea) or perhaps persue a manufacturer rep job. Maybe do something in real estate. I'd forcefully limit myself to a level of time that allowed me to enjoy life, and if the job didn't allow that, change and do something else. I'd sock away a lot for retirement early but not at the complete expense of enjoying pasttimes in the present. I'd embrace the idea that cheap cars can be just as much fun as expensive ones. And I'd never be afraid to try something new, provided I've got an adequate safety net squirreled away.

rickr84 wrote: Heck, every now and then a 20 year old 'kid' making $2500 a month would walk in and buy a tradein Honda S2000 for $14k, tell me how he borrowed $300 from his coworker to come up with the $2000 down payment, and drive off with his $200 a month payment nice S2000. I would be jealous of that kid, driving away with the biggest smile on his face, oblivious to the BS that goes through my head as I tell myself why I should keep driving my 311k mile (no joke) 00 Silverado Z71 because the sales tax on a cooler car is more than I'll ever spend to keep this thing alive. I admire people that can just take a swing and enjoy it. I just cant do it somehow.

Then grow a pair.

I bet checking your account balance doesn't give you a smile like that kid has.

I'll sum up the collective "older guy" thinking on the subject with an old addage:

On their death bed, no one has ever said "I wish I could work one more day".

I can't tell if you are bragging or complaining, so any any advice from me will be received as so cynical I am broken.

Interesting and as others have said, I commend you asking questions and seeking answers.

Personally, I am 45, married, no kids. I have a nice home (with a mortgage) but carry no debt otherwise.

My first thought is that you need to work smarter. That is not say that you have not done well but what you have been doing is popping out one sale at a time.
Two forms of smarter are:
1. build a sales machine
2. residual income

A sales machine is the ability to gain reward from the efforts of many salesmen, not just the sales that you produce yourself. Sure, once built, you still need to tend to the machine and oil the machine but if you step away from the machine for a day or a week, the machine still turns out sales. In the car game, if you, the single salesman, stepped away for a day then no sales. This is what lead you to the situation of only two days off per year.
Each step farther up the sales chain, like the general manager and dealership owner, this need to be "on the floor" every day was a less because "the machine" put out the sales.

I think you have the characteristics of someone who would like to own their own business and I encourage that for you, but if that is not the case for now, look around the auto business for "multiplier/machine" opportunities.
I do not know the car game but a sample may be those extended warranties the F&I guys sell. I think they are owned by third party companies. If you were the area rep for that company you would then have 50 dealerships selling the warranties for you. Your role would be to train and explain to the F&I guys and maybe get the buy in from the GM.
Since you speak the car sales language, you could be very good at this.
There must be other things out there where it would be helpful to speak that car sales language.

Residual Income:
Since you are young and free this could be a great thing for you. In the car sales, you sell today, get paid full commission and move onto the next customer. In residual, you get a little pay when the sale closes but that little pay continues (such as annual renewal commisions.) Add up all those "littles" and in a few years you are bringing home "bigs."
A sample here is the Insurance Game. This could be auto/home/life (StateFarm/Allstate/Independent) or it could be investment/annuity/mutual funds (Edward Jones/MetLife/Independent)

Sure, the insurance game has a high failure rate but so does car sales and you beat that. I assure you it is no harder and the rewards once the "littles" are built are much greater.
You have the experience of gaining the confidence of the wealthy. Add that to this line of work and the companies would be chomping at the bit to get you on board. You have the education background and sales experience those companies like and you have the financial where-with-all to be able to sustain the possible two lean years that lie ahead while you "build it up."

In this finance and insurance type gig you really are your own business (which is likely good for you) and once things really start to pop you add staff and younger salespeople which therefore gives you the "multiplier."

Are these the perfect fields for you; I don't know but more importantly I just wanted to add the fuel for thought. I have never been in either but once when younger considered the financial services gig I just lacked the personal financial backing to withstand the lean "building" period.

I have spent the last 15 years or more in consumer products where I had the multiplier. The products I represented were sold in independent retailers in a 4 state region. My role was to support those retailers and encourage them to sell my product. The actual sale of the product was made by the staff and owners of the stores. My sales quotas were achieved through these sales made by hundreds of salespeople. They worked Saturdays and Sundays, I did not.

I noticed you graduated from UC Berkley. He he he.

Type "A" personality?

Go back and work mega hours and make another $300,000 and start your own dealership.

You won't be happy flipping burgers with $500,000 in the bank.

One thing that's hard to see when you're younger (I'm 36, so not exactly old by any stretch) is that a lot of that success you see is seldom achieved alone. The really successful guys are part of a partnership, or they have people working for them. Two guys together working 50 hours a week each can keep a business open 90 hours a week and still have a few hours of overlap with each other. Or, they could each work 30 hours and keep normal hours. It's surprising how many very successful people work much shorter hours than their employees. Eventually any way.
Families are the same way. You see the guy making $ and still have a happy wife and kids and I guarantee that he's getting support at home that lets him do things that look super human from the outside. In my house, my wife works, and I'm the support staff. People are shocked that she's in her mid 30's has four kids, and is as successful as she is. Part of that is because she never has to miss a meeting, can always stay late when needed, and never has to stay at home with sick kids. She isn't spending work hours paying bills, or dealing with the cable guy or getting calls from the school. That makes her a freakish anomaly among women her age, and her level of success is higher because of it. I'm not saying go out and get married, because it often works exactly the opposite of the picture that I just painted, but an unusually large percentage of really successful people that I know have a very similar support structure that lets them really focus on their success when necessary.
Not really an answer, just things to think about.

Let's get some youngin' life advice from a racer's point of view, shall we?

I'm currently 23 years old, and I've been racing since I was 16. Long story short, I knew I wanted to race since I was 12. I also learned early on that doing something you don't want to do is a recipe for disaster; I went directly into engineering (4 year degree program) directly out of high school and crash and burned. The stress did a number on me, there is a distinct personality difference between just turned 18 HiTemp and just withdrew from engineering HiTemp... After withdrawal, I started to notice all jobs are called jobs for a reason. Yes, some people luck out and get a job that particularily suits them and they do enjoy, but for most lowly citizens, it's a paycheque. That's life. The meaning of this prologue becomes more clear, trust me ;)

My first true racing experience (aside from auto-x and rally-x) was co-driving in stage rally. And I'd say it forever changed my life. After having volunteered numerous times and spectated at Canadian rallies, I bought my gear and went co-driving in 2007. From there, the rest is kind of history.

As with everything in life, you need to find a balance and what your priorities are. I've been offered $100k+ jobs and had to turn them down. Why? Because those types of jobs don't afford me the time to prep and race a car.

So, I currently live paycheque to paycheque, paying down my student debt, renting a room, pouring money into my racing program, and sharing a garage/shop with a friend.

The "experience" of racing is a far more compelling reason to be alive compared to the goal of accumulating wealth and assets. Eventually, I'll have those things as it's not like I don't earn decent money and I'm very young. But, while my friends all drive new STi's and own their own condo's and houses, I've taken another route. It's one that suits me.

Another thing is I can't race half-assed. What I mean is, I can't do "one or two races a year". I HAVE to compete in a series. This also affects my outlook on racing and life, as it requires me to have a job with somewhat flexible vacation plans.

And finally, you are only young once. If you ever want to make a REAL go at racing, it's best to do it while young. If you put it off, REALISTICALLY, you'll be at least 35 by the time you ever hit the track due to a career that demands all of your time, a wife, possibly kids, etc. That is life. Very few make racing and that stuff work, it takes a very specific mindset to do so.

So, food for thought. My final final thought is this:

I WORK to LIVE. Not the other way around. Might as well end it now if all I do is work. What is the point in LIVING in the society we as humans have created if we don't get to do the creative/innovative/interesting things we desire? It's pointless, unless if you REALLY like money and nothing else.

the internets are your friend.
I've seen many online classic and niche/unique car sites doing very well.
You have the startup capital, now you just need to develop the network and get started

Move sideways. People who are successful stick with one thing for a long time. So dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Work should not be life. Life should not be work.

I work at a parts store, and our new assistant manager cannot grasp that. He seldom talks of ANYTHING not related to the store. I can admire that kind of enthusiasm, but you can take it too far. He recently noticed how in this month, people had asked off for 19 separate things this month. "that seems like a lot" he says. Not everyone wants to work all the time. This dude even works off the clock!

Let's see, you had an uber high paying job, had the cheapest place you could find, and kept driving your million mile, paid for chevy truck.

You aren't related to Dave Ramsey are you?

Stop thinking about money...it will help.

You sound very sad and shallow so obviously what you are focusing on isn't working for you. Try helping someone other than yourself and see how it makes you feel.

Just a thought from someone who had a similar mindset at one point.

mguar wrote: I still see those who hang on to the edges of racing.. past their prime with no real achievement, and on occasion a long suffering wife clinging to some vague hope of next year..

I hear what you are saying re: the disillusionment - but many of us never had any illusions (aspirations... maybe ;)). I race cars for the same reason I rock climb, mountain bike or make something tangible with my own hands. I do it for my own satisfaction and the friends I make along the way. I'm willing to pay for the privilege if I have to. You can live a rich life and still have empty pockets.

mguar has made a very good point, one that I have some small amount of personal experience with. I raced MX as an amateur when I was in my teens and early 20's, did well enough on my own that a local shop sorta halfway sponsored me. But that's when it turned into a job; I had to go race etc on top of a 45-50 hour a week job.

Something had to give and I didn't see me ever getting good enough to turn pro (sometimes you have to be brutally honest with yourself), so I went back to racing on MY schedule, not someone else's. Some here will say 'then that means you didn't have enough drive' and I guess they are right.

But it meant that I could hang out with friends, party, go to the beach/mountains/whatever. And I could still race when I saw fit. That's the kind of balance any life needs, at least IMHO.

I also considered opening a motorcycle shop, but here was my problem: there was a good chance I'd become my own best customer. Plus, it would take something I loved and turn it into a job. That's all well and good, but it can also backfire as I discovered when I had to race on someone else's schedule.

So my racing became a recreational outlet, rather than an end in itself. I knew I'd never be the next Roger DeCoster, Michael Schumacher, etc. but I was much happier.

The flip side of the coin was that racing took a lot of weekend time too and I was in the dealership business like you. Weekends are when the sales guys make their big money, I wasn't willing to give them up so I went into the service end of things (service advisor). The hours were not a brutal as the sales guys, there was better job security (well, as good as it can be in that maniacal business) and the money was pretty good. As I said, balance.

I think in your case, the making money was very much like the guy who plows every second/dime he has into racing. The scales are tipped far too much one way, that is not good. Balance is missing, as you noted. Glad you see that.

As far as what do do? That's a good question. Special interest car broker would be a lot of fun, but it has a problem my dad warned me of many years ago: in a down economy, toys are the first thing to get cut from people's budgets.

For steady income in any economy, you need to be in the essentials: food, clothing, shelter. You may want to consider investing your savings in rental real estate or something similar. Let it build over time. You'd be surprised how well that can turn out. FWIW, that's what Arnold Schwarzenegger did: plowed his early movie income into rental property.

Whichever way you decide to go, good luck.

I'll reiterate the work to live, don't live to work. Money isn't everything, building memories of a full life is. I spend a lot of time doing what I enjoy, and just enough making money to afford it. I'll probably never be one of the "Rich". I don't like work that much.

Making bank at less than 80 hours a week is possible if you do it for yourself. Yes, you can do it being a wage slave, but then lose control of your time. I do pretty well at 40 hours a week. There are weeks I work 80, but there are weeks I work 20 too. Find your niche, what you're good at, and do it. If sales is it, do it. For the other aspects of the business, hire people or find a like minded soul who's good at what you aren't.

My partner is a sales guy, I'm not. I'm a tech guy, my partner isn't. We both handle the basic book keeping and pay an accountant to handle the complicated stuff. We compliment each other. Between the two of us we get it done and still have time for fun stuff. Starting a business can be a little scary, but it isn't rocket science. The business isn't the be all and end all of our existence though, it's a means to an end. It's a tool, not a life.

I'll also second the at home support staff. I'm married with 4 kids. My wife is amazing at keeping the world off my back during the week so I can concentrate on making money. That, in itself, isn't a reason to get married, but it does help.

mguar wrote: In reply to HiTempguy: I like your statement, you work to live. On the other hand at your age I too felt talented enough to go racing as a career. I'd won a few races, placed well enough in others that considering my tiny budget I could take pride in. I delayed the family and home thing. With total focus on a future pro racing career..

I completely agree with your whole post, but cut it short to keep things from getting out of hand ;)

That's why I have a successful career in an extremely strong field that will always need people like me. It's not that I'm putting everything aside to go pro or some silly notion like that. I'm just setting my priorities so racing currently comes first.

The challenge of racing is good enough for me, while doing well is preferable.