ever since I've had a decent job, I've been buying mostly non-chinese goods, maily because of not wanting to support communism... but, when i was poorer, there was no choice. i think this is the crux of it, much of the reason why evereyone shops chinese is because they are poor. there are a lot of poor people in north america and europe...
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
And they're pocket sized, for easy travel.
With "Chinese" and "Chicken" in the title I came in looking for some General Tao's recipes. Im leaving disappointed
bravenrace wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: Thank you. Good thing your're not a dick.Edit - You know Bob, this is the way I talk. I'm not trying to be a dick or a douche, I just talk, and I'll admit that I'm not all that good at sugar-coating what I say, but I'm okay with that. I'm really sorry if you are offended by anything I say, but I can't help that. You seem particularly sensitive to any comment about cheap tools, and I have to wonder why. I'll tell you this though - You will NEVER read anything I write where I make a personal attack on someone by calling them a derogatory name.
that looks exactly like the kind of non apology that i've typed online and said in real life many, many times.. people don't like honesty, and i feel sorry for them for that.
We here in the Great Satan slammed the lid on polluters, outlawed child labor, did all the right and moral things. Then we demanded cheap goods.
FWIW, I try to buy USA whenever I can. But as noted that's real difficult; we have exported our problems to China and Mexico.
Another example of this I was reminded of this morning is clothing. I heard a report on NPR that clothing costs in America have risen at far less than the rate of inflation for the past 10 years or so. The reason: almost no clothing is made in this country anymore, save for a few specialty "niche" items.
Once again, if you look at prices, you can buy a basic t-shirt made in Honduras or Phillipines for 4 or 5 bucks at Wal-Mart. The same shirt made in a plant in the US- honestly, I don't know, because I've never seen one, but I'd bet it would be easily twice that. The "real" cost of that shirt might be $8 or $10, but it's hidden from the US consumer (for now*) because of cheap imported goods
*because inevitably all those "cheap labor" countries will likely follow the path we've already walked down in this country, wages will rise, and manufacturing will attempt to find a cheaper place to work. But what happens when there aren't any cheaper places left?
So last night we were at Satan's Playground (I call it wal-mart, but y'all seem to think it's horrific). Wife and I were looking at a replacement rug for the kitchen (vacuum cleaner caught it and the rest is history). They have this new line of "Made in the USA" product I think "Main Line" or whatever and their normal cheap chinese/mexico/thrid world country of choice line. The US crap had the right color. She looked through all 10 they had on the shelf and they were just complete crap. Tears at the corners, or holes in the patterns or seams coming apart. The chinese/mexico/third world country was a much better quality, but had the wrong color.
If we want to compete, we are going to have to offer a better quality and not the junk they're giving us and then charging a premium for it.
I remember back when Sam Walden was alive, Wal-Mart used to pride itself on selling USA-made stuff.
We were at Target the other day, and they were selling "GO USA" mittens to support the US Olympic team. $15 / pair. I looked at the tag- Made in China. :-/
volvoclearinghouse wrote: I remember back when Sam Walden was alive, Wal-Mart used to pride itself on selling USA-made stuff. We were at Target the other day, and they were selling "GO USA" mittens to support the US Olympic team. $15 / pair. I looked at the tag- Made in China. :-/
Dude I am -right now- wearing made in USA jeans. It's exciting. In the pants. But not like that.
tuna55 wrote:volvoclearinghouse wrote: I remember back when Sam Walden was alive, Wal-Mart used to pride itself on selling USA-made stuff. We were at Target the other day, and they were selling "GO USA" mittens to support the US Olympic team. $15 / pair. I looked at the tag- Made in China. :-/Dude I am -right now- wearing made in USA jeans. It's exciting. In the pants. But not like that.
Where'd you find them, what's the brand, and how much? I think that's the sort of thing some people here might want to know.
http://www.landsend.com/products/mens-made-in-the-usa-straight-fit-5-pocket-denim-jeans/id_244094?cm_mmc=139971612&source=GS&country=US¤cy=USD
I know, lands End of all places, and for a "reasonable" price. It's SUPER expensive compared to my normal thrift-store fare, but I've gone through three pairs of jeans in as many months and it was time for something 'nice' to be my only pair.
In reply to volvoclearinghouse:
Its not hard to find products made in the USA.
http://madeinusaforever.com/
http://footvote.com/?gclid=CL7WrvPrnrwCFU9yQgodSlcAKg
http://www.americansworking.com/
http://www.madeintheusa.com/
http://madeinusachallenge.com/made-in-america-master-list/
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/02/made-in-america/index.htm
tuna55 wrote: It's SUPER expensive compared to my normal thrift-store fare
This right here says it all IMO. One thing everyone on this board has to keep in mind is that GRM people are not normal... in fact, most message boards are anything BUT average people. $30 for a pair of jeans is cheap. (don't get your panties in a bunch, that's just the way it is). And then saying you buy jeans at at thrift stores... I honestly do not know a SINGLE person who does that. I mean, I've probably walked by somebody on the street who does, but anyone I am on a first name basis with? No.
So, just pointing out that as YMMV, we're also having an abnormal discussion here. :p
HiTempguy wrote:tuna55 wrote: It's SUPER expensive compared to my normal thrift-store fareThis right here says it all IMO. One thing everyone on this board has to keep in mind is that GRM people are not normal... in fact, most message boards are anything BUT average people. $30 for a pair of jeans is cheap. (don't get your panties in a bunch, that's just the way it is). And then saying you buy jeans at at thrift stores... I honestly do not know a SINGLE person who does that. I mean, I've probably walked by somebody on the street who does, but anyone I am on a first name basis with? No. So, just pointing out that as YMMV, we're also having an abnormal discussion here. :p
My name is Brian.
I also wear shirts from the same thrift store. So does my wife.
But anyway, I found some real honest USA made jeans that are not $100. So either way.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: Its not hard to find products made in the USA. http://madeinusaforever.com/ http://footvote.com/?gclid=CL7WrvPrnrwCFU9yQgodSlcAKg http://www.americansworking.com/ http://www.madeintheusa.com/ http://madeinusachallenge.com/made-in-america-master-list/ http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/02/made-in-america/index.htm
Thanks for that, an excellent reference!
I bought a pair of khakis at a thrift store, and wore them to my white collar, engineering job for over a year. One of the best, most comfortable khakis I've ever owned, too. Nordstrom I think the brand was. shrug I think I paid $4 for them.
That said, yes, $30 for a new pair of jeans is on the low end of the price spectrum. $20 is about the cheapest you can find them at Target, Wally World, etc.
Those jeans I posted are apparently on a super-huge mega deal, so if you want reasonably priced USA made jeans, buy 'em up.
volvoclearinghouse wrote: That said, yes, $30 for a new pair of jeans is on the low end of the price spectrum. $20 is about the cheapest you can find them at Target, Wally World, etc.
That's all I was getting at. MOST people aren't buying jeans for $4 at the thrift store. I don't think it is unreasonable for there to be a pair of made in the USofA jeans for $50 that last more than a year either though.
HiTempguy wrote:tuna55 wrote: It's SUPER expensive compared to my normal thrift-store fareThis right here says it all IMO. One thing everyone on this board has to keep in mind is that GRM people are not normal... in fact, most message boards are anything BUT average people. $30 for a pair of jeans is cheap. (don't get your panties in a bunch, that's just the way it is). And then saying you buy jeans at at thrift stores... I honestly do not know a SINGLE person who does that. I mean, I've probably walked by somebody on the street who does, but anyone I am on a first name basis with? No. So, just pointing out that as YMMV, we're also having an abnormal discussion here. :p
That's an interesting observation. Just about everyone I know does, no matter what income range they are in.
I think the biggest obstacle American manufacturing has at this point is the Chinese manufacturers don't just make junk anymore. They actually make some quality products for substantially less money.
Their next problem is the federal government can't and won't help because if they impose tariffs on the cheap goods, the Chinese free money pipe will close. Blocking imports on humanitarian or environmental grounds will cause the same problem. Not going to happen until the government gets it's act together. And since that will never happen...
In reply to Toyman01:
The real problem is that our Government has no leverage on the Chinese. They own so much of our debt that we can't afford to piss them off. Thats why the only hope we have as a country is if we, the consumer, stop buying their products.
I am not sure 8% is "so much", but it might give them some leverage. I don't think it is quite as much as many seem to think is though. I think the economic / industry entanglements are likely a much stronger force. We both need each other.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to Toyman01: The real problem is that our Government has no leverage on the Chinese. They own so much of our debt that we can't afford to piss them off. Thats why the only hope we have as a country is if we, the consumer, stop buying their products.
Ding, ding, ding. Winner.
There are a couple of issues though.
First, it will take a dramatic shift in the thinking of the population. Not Going To Happen.
Everyone shops at a price point. Everyone. I have X dollars to invest in tools for my shop. I have two choices. Buy expensive American tools and not have many (what my father and grandfather did). Buy inexpensive Chinese tools and have what I need/want. Buy used tools and have what I need/want.
For the most part I do 2 and 3. For the expensive stuff, I buy used tools that need work and fix them myself. Quincy air compressor, Hobart welder, South Bend lathe, etc. I buy Chinese tools when it's something that will spend most of it's life sitting on a shelf, or the good stuff is just flat out of my price range. Bore scope camera, milling machines, horizontal bandsaw, etc. I would love to buy all American everything. I'm not a millionaire, so I do what I can.
Second, it will take American manufacturers, making a substantially better product, to earn their substantially higher price. Also Not Going To Happen.
There aren't enough people to buy their products, because people shop at a price point and American manufactures aren't even in the same book, much less the on the same page. Stihl has a factory in China to go with the factories in Virginia and Germany. Just like Boeing is building planes in South Carolina now because we will do it cheaper. The only manufacturers that are going to survive as American manufactures are the ones that just flat build better stuff at a price that people are willing to pay and China and the 3rd world are closing the quality gap at an alarming rate.
What do we do about it. I honestly don't know. I'd probably start with the government not borrowing money, as a long term solution, to a problem that shouldn't even exist, but that's a whole nother thread...
Welcome to our house of cards...
As a side note, Stihl is a private company and is still owned by the Stihl family. They are not beholden to their investors and don't have to worry about quarterly earnings reports. That is probably the only reason they do not make all their products in China. Things that make you go Hmmmm.
Toyman01 wrote: That's an interesting observation. Just about everyone I know does, no matter what income range they are in.
Anecdotal information on both of our parts. And our lifestyle's are probably completely different, including the people we associate with. The whole "income range" means absolutely nothing. I've met well off people who buy used vehicles, and I've met well off people who drive new Porsche's and GTR's as their winter DD's. Different strokes and all that.
http://livinggreenmag.com/2014/01/27/lifestyle-choices/save-the-environment-with-thrift-store-shopping/
Just what some googleing picked up, YMMV. 16-18% of the population are buying used clothes, which while a large portion. I'd hazard a guess that a large majority of that are people who can't afford new clothes or are trying hard to save money. 47 million people are on food stamps, so 13%. The numbers line up nice.
And of course, your idea of who is well off and who isn't is not the same as mine, yadda yadda yadda. Point is, with the stat I provided, 16% is not average, and typically, when I think of these things, I don't think of the problem from the perspective of a person earning minimum wage (because that isn't who I am). Anywho, wayyyy off topic. My point is, GRM does not represent a well varied sample to take opinions from, nor do the people GRMers associate with. :p
HiTempguy wrote:Toyman01 wrote:Just what some googleing picked up, YMMV. 16-18% of the population are buying used clothes, which while a large portion. I'd hazard a guess that a large majority of that are people who can't afford new clothes or are trying hard to save money. 47 million people are on food stamps, so 13%. The numbers line up nice.
And then there's my anecdotal evidence from owing a rental property and knowing others who own several rental properties...those folks on food stamps, after they miss 2 or 3 rent payments and you can finally evict them- you go into their house and you see cupboards almost barren of any nutritious food but bags and boxes full of clothes...usually new clothes, often with tags and prices still on them.
Sad choices...what goes IN your body is way more important than what goes ON your body.
Just what some googleing picked up, YMMV. 16-18% of the population are buying used clothes, which while a large portion. I'd hazard a guess that a large majority of that are people who can't afford new clothes or are trying hard to save money. 47 million people are on food stamps, so 13%. The numbers line up nice.
And hipsters. You can't find a beat up looking olive drab army trenchcoat with private stripes on the shoulder to pair with your monocle and english bowlar hat just anywhere you know.
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